Of course Wayne, that was my way of expressing concern for delaying a performance issue and trying to sauce out your feeling of the possible duration of v6 development. Do you think there is currently manpower and list of features that requires 1 year plus 6 months delay, or do you think it's more like 2 years best case and 1 year of delay worst case time of thing?
On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 5:03 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambau...@gmail.com> wrote: > When you become the project leader of KiCad, then you can make these > decisions and live with the consequences of them. In the mean time, that > responsibility falls on my shoulders. We are in a feature freeze for v5 > stable so I'm going to err on the side of caution here. If we can pick up > some performance gains without pushing the v5 stable release out, then I'm > fine with that but if there are any stability issues then we will have to > live with what we have. Implementing this at the beginning of v6 and back > porting it when it's stable is also acceptable. Hopefully v6 will not take > 2-3 years. > > Wayne > > On 03/04/2018 07:00 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov wrote: > >> If 6.0 is coming in 1 year, OK, but if it's 2-3 years away then I'd say >> v5.0 should be stable and not have performance issues, in my mind better to >> delay v5 up to 1 month at most to fix it rather than let it sit like that >> for 2-3 years. >> >> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Jeff Young <j...@rokeby.ie <mailto: >> j...@rokeby.ie>> wrote: >> >> As for road-map, I’d suggest that EeschemaGAL + newSymbolFileFormat >> == 6.0. Anything else that can ride along is fine, but not >> definitive. >> >> The legacy stuff represents a tax on all development we do. >> >> Cheers, >> Jeff. >> >> >> On 4 Mar 2018, at 23:31, Jeff Young <j...@rokeby.ie >>> <mailto:j...@rokeby.ie>> wrote: >>> >>> Well, I pounded on it a bit more, and it wasn’t really fitting >>> into “easy” /or/ “straight forward”. It’ll have to wait. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jeff. >>> >>> On 4 Mar 2018, at 20:07, Jon Evans <j...@craftyjon.com >>>> <mailto:j...@craftyjon.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> We should probably make some kind of road map if it doesn't exist >>>> already, concerning the path to GAL for eeschema and who will be >>>> doing what. For example, it might make sense to do the SCHEMATIC >>>> class refactoring you were talking about before or in parallel >>>> with parts of the porting effort. >>>> >>>> I'm up for working on this too, as soon as my connectivity / bus >>>> stuff has landed. >>>> >>>> -Jon >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018, 14:46 Wayne Stambaugh <stambau...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I agree. If it's not an easy straight forward fix, I would >>>> prefer to >>>> spend our precious manpower resources on the GAL port as >>>> well. I don't >>>> know when in the v6 cycle any of this will happen but I'm >>>> guessing it >>>> will happen fairly early. Tom or Orson, do either of you >>>> have any idea >>>> when this will happen? >>>> >>>> Wayne >>>> >>>> On 03/04/2018 02:40 PM, Jon Evans wrote: >>>> > FWIW, I don't find the existing performance to be unusable, >>>> it's just >>>> > not up to the standards of PcbNew/GAL. I don't think it's >>>> worth any >>>> > effort beyond easy fixes, we should put that energy into >>>> the GAL port. >>>> > >>>> > -Jon >>>> > >>>> > On Sun, Mar 4, 2018, 14:34 Bernhard Stegmaier >>>> <stegma...@sw-systems.de <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de> >>>> > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de >>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > I would judge it wrt eeschema GAL conversion. >>>> > If that starts with v6, I don’t know if it is worth the >>>> effort. >>>> > If it is unsure when this will happen, it might be >>>> worth it. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> On 4. Mar 2018, at 20:30, Wayne Stambaugh >>>> <stambau...@gmail.com <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com> >>>> >> <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> Ughh! I don't have a good answer for this one. My >>>> best guess is >>>> >> to fix >>>> >> the wx macos code first and see what performance >>>> issues are left. The >>>> >> problem with messing with any of this is that if you >>>> break >>>> >> something it >>>> >> will break all of the legacy canvas rendering not just >>>> the schematic >>>> >> editor. I would move extremely carefully here. I >>>> would prefer >>>> >> that we >>>> >> don't go too crazy this late in the v5 release cycle. >>>> If the >>>> >> performance is truly not usable on macos, then we may >>>> have no choice. >>>> >> >>>> >> On 03/04/2018 02:07 PM, Jeff Young wrote: >>>> >>> It turns out the fonts aren’t really the problem. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> It starts with this gem in wxWidgets: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> voidwxWidgetCocoaImpl::Sc >>>> rollRect(constwxRect*rect,intdx,intdy) >>>> >>> >>>> >>> { >>>> >>> >>>> >>> #if1 >>>> >>> >>>> >>> SetNeedsDisplay(); >>>> >>> >>>> >>> #else >>>> >>> >>>> >>> //Weshoulddosomethinglike >>>> this,butitwasn'tworkingin10.4. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> if(GetNeedsDisplay()) >>>> >>> >>>> >>> { >>>> >>> >>>> >>> SetNeedsDisplay() ; >>>> >>> >>>> >>> } >>>> >>> >>>> >>> NSRectr=wxToNSRect([m_osxViewsuperview],*rect); >>>> >>> >>>> >>> NSSizeoffset=NSMakeSize((float)dx,(float)dy); >>>> >>> >>>> >>> [m_osxViewscrollRect:rby:offset]; >>>> >>> >>>> >>> #endif >>>> >>> >>>> >>> } >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> SetNeedsDisplay() with no rectangle argument >>>> invalidates the >>>> >>> entire window. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Even if you fix that (to scroll most of the window >>>> and only >>>> >>> invalidate >>>> >>> the newly-exposed parts), you run into this: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> voidwxWidgetCocoaImpl::dr >>>> awRect(void*rect,WXWidgetslf,void*WXUNUSED(_cmd)) >>>> >>> >>>> >>> { >>>> >>> >>>> >>> //preparingtheupdateregion >>>> >>> >>>> >>> wxRegionupdateRgn; >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> //sinceaddingmanyrectstoa >>>> regionisacostlyprocess,bydefaultusetheboundingrect >>>> >>> >>>> >>> #if0 >>>> >>> >>>> >>> constNSRect*rects; >>>> >>> >>>> >>> NSIntegercount; >>>> >>> >>>> >>> [slfgetRectsBeingDrawn:&rectscount:&count]; >>>> >>> >>>> >>> for(inti=0;i<count;++i) >>>> >>> >>>> >>> { >>>> >>> >>>> >>> updateRgn.Union(wxFromNSRect(slf,rects[i])); >>>> >>> >>>> >>> } >>>> >>> >>>> >>> #else >>>> >>> >>>> >>> updateRgn.Union(wxFromNSRect(slf,*(NSRect*)rect)); >>>> >>> >>>> >>> #endif >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> …which will /also/ cause the whole window to be >>>> repainted if there’s >>>> >>> both an invalidated horizontal strip and a vertical one. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> And the latter turns out to be pretty much guaranteed >>>> by this >>>> >>> one, which >>>> >>> batches repaints: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> voidwxNonOwnedWindow::Update() >>>> >>> >>>> >>> { >>>> >>> >>>> >>> if(clock()-s_lastFlush>CLOCKS_PER_SEC/30) >>>> >>> >>>> >>> { >>>> >>> >>>> >>> s_lastFlush=clock(); >>>> >>> >>>> >>> m_nowpeer->Update(); >>>> >>> >>>> >>> } >>>> >>> >>>> >>> } >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> But even Kicad isn’t blameless. Once you fix all >>>> those there’s >>>> >>> still no >>>> >>> checking in SCH_SCREEN::Draw() to see if the >>>> individual draw items >>>> >>> intersect the update region. (Sure, the actually >>>> drawing is >>>> >>> clipped in >>>> >>> the end, but you still go through a /lot/ of code to >>>> get there.) >>>> >>> >>>> >>> All of these are fixable, and we’ve already crossed >>>> the Rubicon of >>>> >>> having our own OSX wxWidgets branch. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> But it’s still a reasonable amount of work, with a >>>> non-trivial risk >>>> >>> profile. Should I continue? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Cheers, >>>> >>> Jeff. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> On 4 Mar 2018, at 01:30, Bernhard Stegmaier >>>> >>>> <stegma...@sw-systems.de >>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de> >>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de >>>> >> >>>> >>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de >>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 4. Mar 2018, at 01:51, Andrey Kuznetsov >>>> <kandre...@gmail.com <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Would it be an easy fix to change the text/font >>>> such that it >>>> >>>>> does not >>>> >>>>> affect performance so significantly on MacOS? >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 5:20 AM, Wayne Stambaugh >>>> >>>>> <stambau...@gmail.com <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com> >>>> <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On 03/03/2018 07:33 AM, Jeff Young wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Andrey, >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> I did some profiling and I’d guess that the >>>> difference in >>>> >>>>> eeschema and pcbnew-legacy performance is >>>> down to there >>>> >>>>> being >>>> >>>>> more text in the schema. Since we use a >>>> stroke font, >>>> >>>>> there’s >>>> >>>>> a lot of stroke segments in each letter. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> @Devs, >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> I understand why we use a stroke font on the >>>> PCB, but >>>> >>>>> there’s >>>> >>>>> not much reason in eeschema, is there? >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> This is possibly one of the things that I plan >>>> on changing after >>>> >>>>> the new schematic file format is written. The >>>> new file format >>>> >>>>> will support font definitions so replacing the >>>> stroke font in >>>> >>>>> Eeschema should be doable. Whether or not I have >>>> time to make >>>> >>>>> this change remains to be seen. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Wayne >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>>> Jeff. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On 3 Mar 2018, at 08:18, Andrey Kuznetsov >>>> >>>>> <kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> The motherboard project is not very >>>> complex, I would say >>>> >>>>> that performance should be tolerable UP >>>> to that size >>>> >>>>> complexity, if we set the bar any lower, >>>> usability will >>>> >>>>> suffer and people won't like KiCad >>>> because it's sluggish >>>> >>>>> and interface lag is the worst kind of lag. >>>> >>>>> My project isn't finished and Chris' >>>> project is >>>> >>>>> available >>>> >>>>> now, is just the right complexity and >>>> has layout >>>> >>>>> that can >>>> >>>>> be used for testing as well as a schematic. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> *LG 5K 27" display running 3200x1800 >>>> (the highest >>>> >>>>> resolution without making text blurry, >>>> using this for >>>> >>>>> work every day, so it's extravagant, >>>> it's practical)* >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> *Actions:* pan with middle mouse, zoom >>>> back and forth. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> *eeschema:* >>>> >>>>> Low Res - at least 2 times slower than >>>> would be >>>> >>>>> considered normal, I would have to guess >>>> ~400ms lag >>>> >>>>> Normal - 4-5x slower compared to low res >>>> mode >>>> >>>>> ~1700ms lag >>>> >>>>> Even in low res mode, and removing 75% >>>> of the items from >>>> >>>>> Chris' schematic, the lag is still >>>> ~200-300ms, that's >>>> >>>>> just not right. Additionally, I filed >>>> >>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1753054 >>>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1753054> >>>> >>>>> <https://bugs.lau >>>> nchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1753054 >>>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1753054>> because >>>> >>>>> the mouse zoom is screwed up in >>>> eeschema, coupled with >>>> >>>>> the lag, it's unusable. Maybe the pan >>>> lag is related to >>>> >>>>> the zoom, maybe there are multiple steps >>>> being rendered >>>> >>>>> when it should just jump to where the >>>> mouse ended up at, >>>> >>>>> I don't know. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> *pcbnew - **Normal Resolution:* >>>> >>>>> Accelerated: No-AA, <50ms >>>> >>>>> Fallback: 500-1000ms for panning, >>>> 300-600ms for zoom >>>> >>>>> Legacy: 1300-1700ms for panning, 600ms >>>> for zoom >>>> >>>>> Low Res mode: did not notice speed >>>> increase, except >>>> >>>>> maybe >>>> >>>>> Fallback was ~400ms faster. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> I'm not saying halt the horses, certain >>>> modes are >>>> >>>>> obviously limited, ie Legacy and >>>> Fallback by the nature >>>> >>>>> of the task presented, but eeschema is >>>> barely displaying >>>> >>>>> 10% of the content pcbnew is but lagging >>>> so much worse! >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Just thought I'd include rendering of >>>> the Accelerated >>>> >>>>> Graphics (top to bottom: Supersampling >>>> 4x, Subpixel AA >>>> >>>>> (Ultra Quality), No AA) >>>> >>>>> All 3 modes are responsive, probably >>>> <50-100ms lag, I'd >>>> >>>>> consider this performance great, >>>> considering the amount >>>> >>>>> of elements on screen. >>>> >>>>> <image.png> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> How long should it take to delete this >>>> many selected >>>> >>>>> elements in pcbnew? >>>> >>>>> Answer: about 50x too long! I think it >>>> was like 3mins, >>>> >>>>> perhaps ESC key should be available to >>>> press anytime to >>>> >>>>> undo the delete action and restore to >>>> pre-delete screen >>>> >>>>> when accidental actions are triggered >>>> that take forever >>>> >>>>> to complete? >>>> >>>>> <image.png> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:53 AM, Bernhard >>>> Stegmaier >>>> >>>>> <stegma...@sw-systems.de >>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de >>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de>> <mailto:stegmaier@sw-syste >>>> ms.de >>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de >>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de >>>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> to be honest, I don’t really know >>>> what this is >>>> >>>>> about. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> @Andrey: >>>> >>>>> You looked for a very complex >>>> (foreign) project >>>> >>>>> (Chris mainboard?) >>>> >>>>> to prove that eeschema is slow on Mac? >>>> >>>>> Well, we know that and we told you >>>> already some >>>> >>>>> weeks/months ago >>>> >>>>> why it is like it is (if memory >>>> serves me right). >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Or, do you have an own project that >>>> is so >>>> >>>>> ridiculously slow, that >>>> >>>>> you can’t work with it? >>>> >>>>> If so, please provide it so that we >>>> can analyse why >>>> >>>>> this specific >>>> >>>>> project behaves like that. >>>> >>>>> If you can’t or don’t want to >>>> provide it we could >>>> >>>>> tell you how to >>>> >>>>> do some performance measurements so >>>> that we >>>> >>>>> might see >>>> >>>>> something. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Obviously, there are a number of Mac >>>> users here and >>>> >>>>> also over at >>>> >>>>> the KiCad forum who might also be >>>> happy to get >>>> >>>>> some more >>>> >>>>> performance here and there, but who >>>> are in general >>>> >>>>> reasonably able >>>> >>>>> to work on their projects (including >>>> myself, on a >>>> >>>>> 2012 Retina >>>> >>>>> MacBook with only an i5). >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>> >>>>> Bernhard >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> > On 2. Mar 2018, at 17:59, Andy Peters >>>> >>>>> <de...@latke.net <mailto:de...@latke.net> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:de...@latke.net >>>> <mailto:de...@latke.net>> <mailto:de...@latke.net >>>> <mailto:de...@latke.net>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:de...@latke.net >>>> <mailto:de...@latke.net> <mailto:de...@latke.net >>>> <mailto:de...@latke.net>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> >> On Mar 1, 2018, at 8:53 PM, Seth >>>> Hillbrand >>>> >>>>> <seth.hillbr...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:seth.hillbr...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:seth.hillbr...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:seth.hillbr...@gmail.com>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:seth.hillbr...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:seth.hillbr...@gmail.com>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:seth.hillbr...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:seth.hillbr...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:seth.hillbr...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:seth.hillbr...@gmail.com>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> Andrey- >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> I'm moving this to a new thread >>>> so that we don't >>>> >>>>> conflate the >>>> >>>>> OpenMP discussion with this. >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> Can you test running Kicad with >>>> the "Open in Low >>>> >>>>> Resolution" >>>> >>>>> mode enabled? You can activate this >>>> by choosing >>>> >>>>> "Get >>>> >>>>> Info" on the >>>> >>>>> main KiCad application and checking >>>> the option that >>>> >>>>> says "Open in >>>> >>>>> Low Resolution". You may need to do >>>> the same >>>> >>>>> for the >>>> >>>>> other >>>> >>>>> applications (Eeschema, pcbnew, etc) >>>> as well. >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > testing on my 2017” touch-bar MBP … >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > Good g-d, low-res mode looks fuzzy >>>> and weird! >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > I don’t notice any specific >>>> differences in >>>> >>>>> EESchema >>>> >>>>> performance. >>>> >>>>> Maybe my schematic isn’t busy >>>> enough? I’m a fan of >>>> >>>>> using more >>>> >>>>> smaller sheets with less info on >>>> each than one big >>>> >>>>> sheet with >>>> >>>>> everything. >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > I know, anecdote is not evidence. >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > -a >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> -Seth >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> 2018-03-01 18:09 GMT-08:00 >>>> Andrey Kuznetsov >>>> >>>>> <kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com>>>>: >>>> >>>>> >> Hi, >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> So for now I've had a chance to >>>> test the >>>> >>>>> motherboard project on >>>> >>>>> my Retina macbook display. >>>> >>>>> >> eeschema: horrible zoom, feels >>>> like elastic band >>>> >>>>> zoom and I >>>> >>>>> have all scroll wheel accelerations >>>> and similar >>>> >>>>> disabled, zoom >>>> >>>>> response is super laggy, cannot work >>>> like this, will >>>> >>>>> need to make >>>> >>>>> schematics on windows. >>>> >>>>> >> pcbnew by order of slowness: >>>> >>>>> >> legacy - pretty slow, zoom lag is >>>> major, boo boo >>>> >>>>> >> modern (fallback) - decent, but >>>> the lag can be >>>> >>>>> felt, zoom lag >>>> >>>>> is minor >>>> >>>>> >> modern (accelerated) - almost >>>> cannot feel the >>>> >>>>> lag, >>>> >>>>> very nice, >>>> >>>>> nice zoom responsiveness >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> I'll report tomorrow on 5K LG >>>> display. >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>> > Mailing list: >>>> >>>>> https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~ >>>> kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>> >>>> >>>>> > Post to >>>> >>>>> : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-dev >>>> elop...@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@list >>>> s.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-dev >>>> elop...@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>>> >>>> >>>>> > Unsubscribe : >>>> >>>>> https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~ >>>> kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>> >>>> >>>>> > More help : >>>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>>> >>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>> >>>> >>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>>> >>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> _____________________________ >>>> __________________ >>>> >>>>> Mailing >>>> >>>>> list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~ >>>> kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>> >>>> >>>>> Post to >>>> >>>>> : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-dev >>>> elop...@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@list >>>> s.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-dev >>>> elop...@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>>> >>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe >>>> >>>>> : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~ >>>> kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>> >>>> >>>>> More help : >>>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>>> >>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>> >>>> >>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>>> >>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>>> Remember The Past, Live The Present, >>>> Change The Future >>>> >>>>> Those who look only to the past or the >>>> present are >>>> >>>>> certain to miss the future [JFK] >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> kandre...@gmail.com <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:kandre...@gmail.com>>> >>>> >>>>> Live Long and Prosper, >>>> >>>>> Andrey >>>> >>>>> _________________ >>>> ______________________________ >>>> >>>>> Mailing list: >>>> https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> >>>> >>>>> Post to : >>>> kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-dev >>>> elop...@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-dev >>>> elop...@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-dev >>>> elop...@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>>> >>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe : >>>> https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> >>>> >>>>> More help : >>>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>>> >>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> ______________________ >>>> _________________________ >>>> >>>>> Mailing list: >>>> https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> >>>> >>>>> Post to : >>>> kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>> >>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe : >>>> https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> >>> >>> -- Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the future [JFK] kandre...@gmail.com Live Long and Prosper, Andrey
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