I was assuming sig-coud would spawn working groups for individual
cloud providers, and that's where critical conversations would be had.
My hope was to rein in sig sprawl, and mitigate overlap.

BUt I guess I don't care enough to argue it very hard.  There
shouldn't be much net impact of being a SIG vs being a WG (on the rest
of the project).  There is some overhead required to be a SIG - maybe
this will self-correct.

So I am fine with it.

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Brian Grant <briangr...@google.com> wrote:
> I agree. My main concern was whether it would have critical mass, and it
> sounds like it would. As the structure we'd like becomes more clear, we
> could create SIG cloud later and convert existing SIGs to WGs, or create a
> cloud WG, or have SIG cloud in addition to per-provider SIGs.
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Alexis Richardson <alexis@weave.works>
> wrote:
>>
>> +1, makes a lot of sense
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 22 May 2017, 19:07 Justin Santa Barbara, <jus...@fathomdb.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> We do seem to be filling sig-aws meetings with very AWS-specific stuff,
>>> so I think we would be doing other clouds a disservice if we rolled them
>>> into the same sig as sig-aws.  We also have end users joining sig-aws, which
>>> might not be the case if a large proportion of the discussion was about
>>> other clouds.
>>>
>>> My view: it makes sense to have sig-aws, sig-gce, sig-azure,
>>> sig-openstack etc - those would be populated by users/developers of those
>>> particular clouds, and discussion would primarily be about how to operate on
>>> that cloud.  We _also_ need sig-cloud, to agree cross-cloud abstractions -
>>> sig-cloud would more be API design, and a very different group of people
>>> that would attend.
>>>
>>> We need both though, just like the existence of sig-apimachinery does not
>>> negate the need for sig-apps, sig-instrumentation, sig-scale etc.
>>>
>>> I'd also prefer to see sig-cloud come from the cloud sigs recognizing the
>>> need for a cross-cloud group, not top-down planning.
>>>
>>> Really though, a lot of this is moot until the governance discussions
>>> have determined what a sig is - we may be arguing semantics.
>>>
>>> (+1 on sig-azure, +1 on sig-cloud therefore)
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 1:48:25 PM UTC-4, Alexis Richardson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If sig-aws and sig-azure existed then would sig-cloud be needed?  If
>>>> sig-cloud existed, then would there still be two additional (sub)groups for
>>>> aws and azure?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 22 May 2017, 18:45 'Tim Hockin' via Kubernetes
>>>> developer/contributor discussion, <kuberne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't see why we need sig-Azure, unless we thing sig-cloud is not
>>>>> going to happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know who is pushing hardest for sig-cloud - Brandon?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Sarah Novotny <sarahn...@google.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > Hai all.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > What I'm hearing is immediate need for Azure work to happen in some
>>>>> > coordinated fashion we're not addressing.  *And* a
>>>>> > rethink/coalescence of
>>>>> > cloud providers under a more umbrella group for cross platform
>>>>> > consistency
>>>>> > and coordination.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I've also heard that a SIG-Azure group (and I believe SIG-AWS from
>>>>> > Thursday's chat) would support an umbrella SIG-Cloud.  I don't
>>>>> > remember if
>>>>> > SIG-Openstack weighed in on that one.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > So, my question today is -- Do we believe we can charter and coalesce
>>>>> > SIG-Cloud at the Leadership Summit in 2 weeks or, should we move
>>>>> > forward
>>>>> > with SIG-Azure now and continue to work on the goals of SIG-Cloud
>>>>> > with a
>>>>> > longer timeline?
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:56 PM, 'Tim Hockin' via Kubernetes
>>>>> > developer/contributor discussion <kuberne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I am -1 on this overall.  I think sig-cloud would be better, with
>>>>> >> provider-specific sub-groups.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Tim Hockin <tho...@google.com>
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> > you can label for area/platform/azure
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:43 PM, 'Eric Tune' via Kubernetes
>>>>>
>>>>> >> > developer/contributor discussion <kuberne...@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >> > wrote:
>>>>> >> >> I was just triaging new issues today and I wanted to label one
>>>>> >> >> sig/azure,
>>>>> >> >> but I can't (yet).
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>
>>>>> >> >> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:42 PM, jack quincy <jaze...@gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> +1
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 6:14:18 AM UTC-7, Jason Singer DuMars
>>>>> >> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> All,
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> I'd like to revive the effort to create SIG-Azure that was
>>>>> >> >>>> referenced
>>>>> >> >>>> in
>>>>> >> >>>> both this PR and this issue.
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> Proposed mission statement:
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> A Special Interest Group for building, deploying, maintaining,
>>>>> >> >>>> supporting, and using Kubernetes on Azure Container Service.
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> Secondary statement:
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> The SIG will be responsible for designing, discussing, and
>>>>> >> >>>> maintaining
>>>>> >> >>>> the Azure cloud provider and its relevant tests. The SIG will
>>>>> >> >>>> also be
>>>>> >> >>>> responsible for any roadmap and release requirements for
>>>>> >> >>>> Kubernetes
>>>>> >> >>>> on
>>>>> >> >>>> Azure.
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> Rationale and Raison D'ĂȘtre:
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> Since the time of the discussion linked above, Microsoft has
>>>>> >> >>>> become
>>>>> >> >>>> strategically-focused on Kubernetes as an indispensable
>>>>> >> >>>> component in
>>>>> >> >>>> the
>>>>> >> >>>> Azure ecosystem.  This was underscored by the recent
>>>>> >> >>>> acquisition of
>>>>> >> >>>> Deis and
>>>>> >> >>>> GA rollout of Kubernetes in Azure Container Service.
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> The purposes of the SIG are specifically:
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> - Provide a consistent and accountable interface to the
>>>>> >> >>>> Kubernetes
>>>>> >> >>>> project/product management structure for features specific to
>>>>> >> >>>> the
>>>>> >> >>>> Azure
>>>>> >> >>>> cloud provider, as well as a readout space for efforts
>>>>> >> >>>> undertaken in
>>>>> >> >>>> other
>>>>> >> >>>> SIGs
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> - Help organize the rapidly-growing ACS Kubernetes community
>>>>> >> >>>> for
>>>>> >> >>>> knowledge-sharing and feedback ~ ideally creating more
>>>>> >> >>>> engagement
>>>>> >> >>>> across the
>>>>> >> >>>> project as a whole
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> - Establish a clear channel for ACS-specific Kubernetes
>>>>> >> >>>> community
>>>>> >> >>>> support, so it does not get misdirected into SIG-Windows
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> - Building and curating documentation for Kubernetes on Azure
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> - Provide a point of contact to build and maintain
>>>>> >> >>>> Azure-specific e2e
>>>>> >> >>>> tests for Kubernetes
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> - Coordinating requirements for Azure integrators like
>>>>> >> >>>> ACS-Engine,
>>>>> >> >>>> CoreOS
>>>>> >> >>>> Tectonic for Azure
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> - Raise visibility within Microsoft of opportunities to
>>>>> >> >>>> contribute
>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>> >> >>>> give back to Kubernetes
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> SIG Disambiguation:
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> To address potential overlap concerns with SIG-Windows, this
>>>>> >> >>>> group is
>>>>> >> >>>> specific to workloads running in Azure Container Service.  The
>>>>> >> >>>> mission of
>>>>> >> >>>> SIG-Windows is complimentary not preemptory.  Also, if a
>>>>> >> >>>> SIG-Cloud
>>>>> >> >>>> umbrella
>>>>> >> >>>> comes to fruition in the future, we will re-evaluate the need
>>>>> >> >>>> for
>>>>> >> >>>> this
>>>>> >> >>>> separate SIG at that point.  The last thing we need is SIG
>>>>> >> >>>> sprawl.
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> Implementation:
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> For implementation, I will be the initial point of contact and
>>>>> >> >>>> will
>>>>> >> >>>> at a
>>>>> >> >>>> minimum ensure scheduling, documentation, transparency, and
>>>>> >> >>>> facilitation are
>>>>> >> >>>> consistent with Kubernetes community SIG standards. Initial
>>>>> >> >>>> (and
>>>>> >> >>>> possibly
>>>>> >> >>>> provisional) leadership will be Jason Hansen and Cole Mickens.
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> An initial meeting cadence will be bi-weekly, and after the SIG
>>>>> >> >>>> is
>>>>> >> >>>> properly set up in Groups, Slack and other communications
>>>>> >> >>>> channels,
>>>>> >> >>>> the
>>>>> >> >>>> initial and subsequent meeting times will be radiated to the
>>>>> >> >>>> community.
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> I'd like to work out concerns ahead of the 5/18 community
>>>>> >> >>>> meeting so
>>>>> >> >>>> that
>>>>> >> >>>> the SIG may be discussed and ideally approved at that time.
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> Please let me know your questions and concerns.
>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>> >> >>>> Kindest regards,
>>>>> >> >>>> Jaice Singer DuMars
>>>>> >> >>>> co-lead of SIG Cluster Ops
>>>>> >> >>>> ~ Formerly @Deis, Now @Microsoft
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> --
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  • [kubernetes-use... jack quincy
    • [kubernete... 'Eric Tune' via Kubernetes user discussion and Q&A
      • [kuber... 'Tim Hockin' via Kubernetes user discussion and Q&A
        • [k... 'Tim Hockin' via Kubernetes user discussion and Q&A
          • ... 'Sarah Novotny' via Kubernetes user discussion and Q&A
            • ... 'Tim Hockin' via Kubernetes user discussion and Q&A
              • ... Alexis Richardson
              • ... Justin Santa Barbara
              • ... Alexis Richardson
              • ... 'Brian Grant' via Kubernetes user discussion and Q&A
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              • ... 'Brian Grant' via Kubernetes user discussion and Q&A
              • ... Ihor Dvoretskyi
            • ... Ihor Dvoretskyi
              • ... Steve Gordon
              • ... 'Sarah Novotny' via Kubernetes user discussion and Q&A
              • ... Jason Singer DuMars

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