> We haven't developed any kind of operating model for working groups yet, even less than for SIGs -- mailing lists, slack channels, meeting recordings, community-meeting reports, code ownership, ...
It's a great time to start! On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:09 AM 'Brian Grant' via Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion <kubernetes-...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 10:51 PM, Tim Hockin <thoc...@google.com> wrote: > >> I was assuming sig-coud would spawn working groups for individual >> cloud providers, and that's where critical conversations would be had. >> My hope was to rein in sig sprawl, and mitigate overlap. > > >> BUt I guess I don't care enough to argue it very hard. There >> shouldn't be much net impact of being a SIG vs being a WG (on the rest >> of the project). There is some overhead required to be a SIG - maybe >> this will self-correct. >> > > We haven't developed any kind of operating model for working groups yet, > even less than for SIGs -- mailing lists, slack channels, meeting > recordings, community-meeting reports, code ownership, ... > > Also, if in practice provider-specific discussions and code are 80% unique > and 20% overlapping, then SIGs per provider and a WG for cloud would make > more sense. > >> >> So I am fine with it. >> >> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Brian Grant <briangr...@google.com> >> wrote: >> > I agree. My main concern was whether it would have critical mass, and it >> > sounds like it would. As the structure we'd like becomes more clear, we >> > could create SIG cloud later and convert existing SIGs to WGs, or >> create a >> > cloud WG, or have SIG cloud in addition to per-provider SIGs. >> > >> > On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Alexis Richardson <alexis@weave.works >> > >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> +1, makes a lot of sense >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 22 May 2017, 19:07 Justin Santa Barbara, <jus...@fathomdb.com> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> We do seem to be filling sig-aws meetings with very AWS-specific >> stuff, >> >>> so I think we would be doing other clouds a disservice if we rolled >> them >> >>> into the same sig as sig-aws. We also have end users joining >> sig-aws, which >> >>> might not be the case if a large proportion of the discussion was >> about >> >>> other clouds. >> >>> >> >>> My view: it makes sense to have sig-aws, sig-gce, sig-azure, >> >>> sig-openstack etc - those would be populated by users/developers of >> those >> >>> particular clouds, and discussion would primarily be about how to >> operate on >> >>> that cloud. We _also_ need sig-cloud, to agree cross-cloud >> abstractions - >> >>> sig-cloud would more be API design, and a very different group of >> people >> >>> that would attend. >> >>> >> >>> We need both though, just like the existence of sig-apimachinery does >> not >> >>> negate the need for sig-apps, sig-instrumentation, sig-scale etc. >> >>> >> >>> I'd also prefer to see sig-cloud come from the cloud sigs recognizing >> the >> >>> need for a cross-cloud group, not top-down planning. >> >>> >> >>> Really though, a lot of this is moot until the governance discussions >> >>> have determined what a sig is - we may be arguing semantics. >> >>> >> >>> (+1 on sig-azure, +1 on sig-cloud therefore) >> >>> >> >>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 1:48:25 PM UTC-4, Alexis Richardson wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> If sig-aws and sig-azure existed then would sig-cloud be needed? If >> >>>> sig-cloud existed, then would there still be two additional >> (sub)groups for >> >>>> aws and azure? >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Mon, 22 May 2017, 18:45 'Tim Hockin' via Kubernetes >> >>>> developer/contributor discussion, <kuberne...@googlegroups.com> >> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I don't see why we need sig-Azure, unless we thing sig-cloud is not >> >>>>> going to happen. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I don't know who is pushing hardest for sig-cloud - Brandon? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Sarah Novotny < >> sarahn...@google.com> >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> > Hai all. >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > What I'm hearing is immediate need for Azure work to happen in >> some >> >>>>> > coordinated fashion we're not addressing. *And* a >> >>>>> > rethink/coalescence of >> >>>>> > cloud providers under a more umbrella group for cross platform >> >>>>> > consistency >> >>>>> > and coordination. >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > I've also heard that a SIG-Azure group (and I believe SIG-AWS from >> >>>>> > Thursday's chat) would support an umbrella SIG-Cloud. I don't >> >>>>> > remember if >> >>>>> > SIG-Openstack weighed in on that one. >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > So, my question today is -- Do we believe we can charter and >> coalesce >> >>>>> > SIG-Cloud at the Leadership Summit in 2 weeks or, should we move >> >>>>> > forward >> >>>>> > with SIG-Azure now and continue to work on the goals of SIG-Cloud >> >>>>> > with a >> >>>>> > longer timeline? >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:56 PM, 'Tim Hockin' via Kubernetes >> >>>>> > developer/contributor discussion <kuberne...@googlegroups.com> >> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> I am -1 on this overall. I think sig-cloud would be better, with >> >>>>> >> provider-specific sub-groups. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Tim Hockin <tho...@google.com> >> >>>>> >> wrote: >> >>>>> >> > you can label for area/platform/azure >> >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> >> > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:43 PM, 'Eric Tune' via Kubernetes >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> > developer/contributor discussion <kuberne...@googlegroups.com> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> > wrote: >> >>>>> >> >> I was just triaging new issues today and I wanted to label one >> >>>>> >> >> sig/azure, >> >>>>> >> >> but I can't (yet). >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:42 PM, jack quincy < >> jaze...@gmail.com> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> +1 >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 6:14:18 AM UTC-7, Jason Singer >> DuMars >> >>>>> >> >>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> All, >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> I'd like to revive the effort to create SIG-Azure that was >> >>>>> >> >>>> referenced >> >>>>> >> >>>> in >> >>>>> >> >>>> both this PR and this issue. >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> Proposed mission statement: >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> A Special Interest Group for building, deploying, >> maintaining, >> >>>>> >> >>>> supporting, and using Kubernetes on Azure Container Service. >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> Secondary statement: >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> The SIG will be responsible for designing, discussing, and >> >>>>> >> >>>> maintaining >> >>>>> >> >>>> the Azure cloud provider and its relevant tests. The SIG >> will >> >>>>> >> >>>> also be >> >>>>> >> >>>> responsible for any roadmap and release requirements for >> >>>>> >> >>>> Kubernetes >> >>>>> >> >>>> on >> >>>>> >> >>>> Azure. >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> Rationale and Raison D'être: >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> Since the time of the discussion linked above, Microsoft has >> >>>>> >> >>>> become >> >>>>> >> >>>> strategically-focused on Kubernetes as an indispensable >> >>>>> >> >>>> component in >> >>>>> >> >>>> the >> >>>>> >> >>>> Azure ecosystem. This was underscored by the recent >> >>>>> >> >>>> acquisition of >> >>>>> >> >>>> Deis and >> >>>>> >> >>>> GA rollout of Kubernetes in Azure Container Service. >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> The purposes of the SIG are specifically: >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> - Provide a consistent and accountable interface to the >> >>>>> >> >>>> Kubernetes >> >>>>> >> >>>> project/product management structure for features specific >> to >> >>>>> >> >>>> the >> >>>>> >> >>>> Azure >> >>>>> >> >>>> cloud provider, as well as a readout space for efforts >> >>>>> >> >>>> undertaken in >> >>>>> >> >>>> other >> >>>>> >> >>>> SIGs >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> - Help organize the rapidly-growing ACS Kubernetes community >> >>>>> >> >>>> for >> >>>>> >> >>>> knowledge-sharing and feedback ~ ideally creating more >> >>>>> >> >>>> engagement >> >>>>> >> >>>> across the >> >>>>> >> >>>> project as a whole >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> - Establish a clear channel for ACS-specific Kubernetes >> >>>>> >> >>>> community >> >>>>> >> >>>> support, so it does not get misdirected into SIG-Windows >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> - Building and curating documentation for Kubernetes on >> Azure >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> - Provide a point of contact to build and maintain >> >>>>> >> >>>> Azure-specific e2e >> >>>>> >> >>>> tests for Kubernetes >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> - Coordinating requirements for Azure integrators like >> >>>>> >> >>>> ACS-Engine, >> >>>>> >> >>>> CoreOS >> >>>>> >> >>>> Tectonic for Azure >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> - Raise visibility within Microsoft of opportunities to >> >>>>> >> >>>> contribute >> >>>>> >> >>>> and >> >>>>> >> >>>> give back to Kubernetes >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> SIG Disambiguation: >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> To address potential overlap concerns with SIG-Windows, this >> >>>>> >> >>>> group is >> >>>>> >> >>>> specific to workloads running in Azure Container Service. >> The >> >>>>> >> >>>> mission of >> >>>>> >> >>>> SIG-Windows is complimentary not preemptory. Also, if a >> >>>>> >> >>>> SIG-Cloud >> >>>>> >> >>>> umbrella >> >>>>> >> >>>> comes to fruition in the future, we will re-evaluate the >> need >> >>>>> >> >>>> for >> >>>>> >> >>>> this >> >>>>> >> >>>> separate SIG at that point. The last thing we need is SIG >> >>>>> >> >>>> sprawl. >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> Implementation: >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> For implementation, I will be the initial point of contact >> and >> >>>>> >> >>>> will >> >>>>> >> >>>> at a >> >>>>> >> >>>> minimum ensure scheduling, documentation, transparency, and >> >>>>> >> >>>> facilitation are >> >>>>> >> >>>> consistent with Kubernetes community SIG standards. Initial >> >>>>> >> >>>> (and >> >>>>> >> >>>> possibly >> >>>>> >> >>>> provisional) leadership will be Jason Hansen and Cole >> Mickens. >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> An initial meeting cadence will be bi-weekly, and after the >> SIG >> >>>>> >> >>>> is >> >>>>> >> >>>> properly set up in Groups, Slack and other communications >> >>>>> >> >>>> channels, >> >>>>> >> >>>> the >> >>>>> >> >>>> initial and subsequent meeting times will be radiated to the >> >>>>> >> >>>> community. >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> I'd like to work out concerns ahead of the 5/18 community >> >>>>> >> >>>> meeting so >> >>>>> >> >>>> that >> >>>>> >> >>>> the SIG may be discussed and ideally approved at that time. >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> Please let me know your questions and concerns. >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> Kindest regards, >> >>>>> >> >>>> Jaice Singer DuMars >> >>>>> >> >>>> co-lead of SIG Cluster Ops >> >>>>> >> >>>> ~ Formerly @Deis, Now @Microsoft >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> >> 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