On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 10:51 PM, Tim Hockin <thoc...@google.com> wrote:
> I was assuming sig-coud would spawn working groups for individual > cloud providers, and that's where critical conversations would be had. > My hope was to rein in sig sprawl, and mitigate overlap. > BUt I guess I don't care enough to argue it very hard. There > shouldn't be much net impact of being a SIG vs being a WG (on the rest > of the project). There is some overhead required to be a SIG - maybe > this will self-correct. > We haven't developed any kind of operating model for working groups yet, even less than for SIGs -- mailing lists, slack channels, meeting recordings, community-meeting reports, code ownership, ... Also, if in practice provider-specific discussions and code are 80% unique and 20% overlapping, then SIGs per provider and a WG for cloud would make more sense. > > So I am fine with it. > > On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Brian Grant <briangr...@google.com> > wrote: > > I agree. My main concern was whether it would have critical mass, and it > > sounds like it would. As the structure we'd like becomes more clear, we > > could create SIG cloud later and convert existing SIGs to WGs, or create > a > > cloud WG, or have SIG cloud in addition to per-provider SIGs. > > > > On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Alexis Richardson <alexis@weave.works> > > wrote: > >> > >> +1, makes a lot of sense > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 22 May 2017, 19:07 Justin Santa Barbara, <jus...@fathomdb.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> We do seem to be filling sig-aws meetings with very AWS-specific stuff, > >>> so I think we would be doing other clouds a disservice if we rolled > them > >>> into the same sig as sig-aws. We also have end users joining sig-aws, > which > >>> might not be the case if a large proportion of the discussion was about > >>> other clouds. > >>> > >>> My view: it makes sense to have sig-aws, sig-gce, sig-azure, > >>> sig-openstack etc - those would be populated by users/developers of > those > >>> particular clouds, and discussion would primarily be about how to > operate on > >>> that cloud. We _also_ need sig-cloud, to agree cross-cloud > abstractions - > >>> sig-cloud would more be API design, and a very different group of > people > >>> that would attend. > >>> > >>> We need both though, just like the existence of sig-apimachinery does > not > >>> negate the need for sig-apps, sig-instrumentation, sig-scale etc. > >>> > >>> I'd also prefer to see sig-cloud come from the cloud sigs recognizing > the > >>> need for a cross-cloud group, not top-down planning. > >>> > >>> Really though, a lot of this is moot until the governance discussions > >>> have determined what a sig is - we may be arguing semantics. > >>> > >>> (+1 on sig-azure, +1 on sig-cloud therefore) > >>> > >>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 1:48:25 PM UTC-4, Alexis Richardson wrote: > >>>> > >>>> If sig-aws and sig-azure existed then would sig-cloud be needed? If > >>>> sig-cloud existed, then would there still be two additional > (sub)groups for > >>>> aws and azure? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, 22 May 2017, 18:45 'Tim Hockin' via Kubernetes > >>>> developer/contributor discussion, <kuberne...@googlegroups.com> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't see why we need sig-Azure, unless we thing sig-cloud is not > >>>>> going to happen. > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't know who is pushing hardest for sig-cloud - Brandon? > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Sarah Novotny < > sarahn...@google.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > Hai all. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > What I'm hearing is immediate need for Azure work to happen in some > >>>>> > coordinated fashion we're not addressing. *And* a > >>>>> > rethink/coalescence of > >>>>> > cloud providers under a more umbrella group for cross platform > >>>>> > consistency > >>>>> > and coordination. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > I've also heard that a SIG-Azure group (and I believe SIG-AWS from > >>>>> > Thursday's chat) would support an umbrella SIG-Cloud. I don't > >>>>> > remember if > >>>>> > SIG-Openstack weighed in on that one. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > So, my question today is -- Do we believe we can charter and > coalesce > >>>>> > SIG-Cloud at the Leadership Summit in 2 weeks or, should we move > >>>>> > forward > >>>>> > with SIG-Azure now and continue to work on the goals of SIG-Cloud > >>>>> > with a > >>>>> > longer timeline? > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:56 PM, 'Tim Hockin' via Kubernetes > >>>>> > developer/contributor discussion <kuberne...@googlegroups.com> > wrote: > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> I am -1 on this overall. I think sig-cloud would be better, with > >>>>> >> provider-specific sub-groups. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Tim Hockin <tho...@google.com> > >>>>> >> wrote: > >>>>> >> > you can label for area/platform/azure > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:43 PM, 'Eric Tune' via Kubernetes > >>>>> > >>>>> >> > developer/contributor discussion <kuberne...@googlegroups.com> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> > wrote: > >>>>> >> >> I was just triaging new issues today and I wanted to label one > >>>>> >> >> sig/azure, > >>>>> >> >> but I can't (yet). > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> >> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:42 PM, jack quincy < > jaze...@gmail.com> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> >> wrote: > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> +1 > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 6:14:18 AM UTC-7, Jason Singer > DuMars > >>>>> >> >>> wrote: > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> All, > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> I'd like to revive the effort to create SIG-Azure that was > >>>>> >> >>>> referenced > >>>>> >> >>>> in > >>>>> >> >>>> both this PR and this issue. > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> Proposed mission statement: > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> A Special Interest Group for building, deploying, > maintaining, > >>>>> >> >>>> supporting, and using Kubernetes on Azure Container Service. > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> Secondary statement: > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> The SIG will be responsible for designing, discussing, and > >>>>> >> >>>> maintaining > >>>>> >> >>>> the Azure cloud provider and its relevant tests. The SIG will > >>>>> >> >>>> also be > >>>>> >> >>>> responsible for any roadmap and release requirements for > >>>>> >> >>>> Kubernetes > >>>>> >> >>>> on > >>>>> >> >>>> Azure. > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> Rationale and Raison D'être: > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> Since the time of the discussion linked above, Microsoft has > >>>>> >> >>>> become > >>>>> >> >>>> strategically-focused on Kubernetes as an indispensable > >>>>> >> >>>> component in > >>>>> >> >>>> the > >>>>> >> >>>> Azure ecosystem. This was underscored by the recent > >>>>> >> >>>> acquisition of > >>>>> >> >>>> Deis and > >>>>> >> >>>> GA rollout of Kubernetes in Azure Container Service. > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> The purposes of the SIG are specifically: > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> - Provide a consistent and accountable interface to the > >>>>> >> >>>> Kubernetes > >>>>> >> >>>> project/product management structure for features specific to > >>>>> >> >>>> the > >>>>> >> >>>> Azure > >>>>> >> >>>> cloud provider, as well as a readout space for efforts > >>>>> >> >>>> undertaken in > >>>>> >> >>>> other > >>>>> >> >>>> SIGs > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> - Help organize the rapidly-growing ACS Kubernetes community > >>>>> >> >>>> for > >>>>> >> >>>> knowledge-sharing and feedback ~ ideally creating more > >>>>> >> >>>> engagement > >>>>> >> >>>> across the > >>>>> >> >>>> project as a whole > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> - Establish a clear channel for ACS-specific Kubernetes > >>>>> >> >>>> community > >>>>> >> >>>> support, so it does not get misdirected into SIG-Windows > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> - Building and curating documentation for Kubernetes on Azure > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> - Provide a point of contact to build and maintain > >>>>> >> >>>> Azure-specific e2e > >>>>> >> >>>> tests for Kubernetes > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> - Coordinating requirements for Azure integrators like > >>>>> >> >>>> ACS-Engine, > >>>>> >> >>>> CoreOS > >>>>> >> >>>> Tectonic for Azure > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> - Raise visibility within Microsoft of opportunities to > >>>>> >> >>>> contribute > >>>>> >> >>>> and > >>>>> >> >>>> give back to Kubernetes > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> SIG Disambiguation: > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> To address potential overlap concerns with SIG-Windows, this > >>>>> >> >>>> group is > >>>>> >> >>>> specific to workloads running in Azure Container Service. > The > >>>>> >> >>>> mission of > >>>>> >> >>>> SIG-Windows is complimentary not preemptory. Also, if a > >>>>> >> >>>> SIG-Cloud > >>>>> >> >>>> umbrella > >>>>> >> >>>> comes to fruition in the future, we will re-evaluate the need > >>>>> >> >>>> for > >>>>> >> >>>> this > >>>>> >> >>>> separate SIG at that point. The last thing we need is SIG > >>>>> >> >>>> sprawl. > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> Implementation: > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> For implementation, I will be the initial point of contact > and > >>>>> >> >>>> will > >>>>> >> >>>> at a > >>>>> >> >>>> minimum ensure scheduling, documentation, transparency, and > >>>>> >> >>>> facilitation are > >>>>> >> >>>> consistent with Kubernetes community SIG standards. Initial > >>>>> >> >>>> (and > >>>>> >> >>>> possibly > >>>>> >> >>>> provisional) leadership will be Jason Hansen and Cole > Mickens. > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> An initial meeting cadence will be bi-weekly, and after the > SIG > >>>>> >> >>>> is > >>>>> >> >>>> properly set up in Groups, Slack and other communications > >>>>> >> >>>> channels, > >>>>> >> >>>> the > >>>>> >> >>>> initial and subsequent meeting times will be radiated to the > >>>>> >> >>>> community. > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> I'd like to work out concerns ahead of the 5/18 community > >>>>> >> >>>> meeting so > >>>>> >> >>>> that > >>>>> >> >>>> the SIG may be discussed and ideally approved at that time. > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> Please let me know your questions and concerns. > >>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>> >> >>>> Kindest regards, > >>>>> >> >>>> Jaice Singer DuMars > >>>>> >> >>>> co-lead of SIG Cluster Ops > >>>>> >> >>>> ~ Formerly @Deis, Now @Microsoft > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> -- > >>>>> >> >>> You 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