ad 1 - I didn't make fun of anyone's English. I reacted to the proposal
to put Mogoeilor on moderation due to his imperfect English. I actually
defended all non-English participants in this communication, asking not
to restrict their communication just because their English took a bit
more effort to understand.
ad 2 - I'm glad to hear of your support for lrc:wp.
ad 3 - I'm not familiar with the language situation in Iran (which is
why I contacted Dr. Erik Anonby). However, I know something about
orthography development (it's actually part of my job as a linguistics
consultant for minority languages in East Africa). As long as there is
no standard (and there doesn't seem to be for Northern Luri), all
scripts are "homemade" in some sense of the word. And no script, whether
"pure" or "mixed" (both of which are acceptable in orthography
development), will be readable without teaching, explaining and literacy
activities.
I'll inform you of Dr. Anonby's reply once I've made contact.
On 02-Feb-16 1:15 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
Hey,
1- Making fun of my English (which is not perfect I admit) is a little
bit unethical. Don't you think? I expected higher standards from this
mailing list
2- Situation of Iranian languages is a political issue, I definitely
agree but not this case. I was actually asked by the same person who
started this discussion in fa.wp who speaks Lurish. Is it okay for to
make this Wiki again with proper script? and I said, why not? that
would be awesome. I'm not like these crazy protagonists that think the
only language in Iran is Persian and other ones are its dialects. I
definitely in favor of re-launching this wiki with proper scripts that
are readable by Lur people. Not a handful number of people.
3- I think originality of this script is implicitly mentioned in email
of the professor, quoting: "There are some quirky orthographic things
[...] off of words, but many fewer issues than a lot of the other
homemade scripts I’ve seen used for Luri."
My attention came to word "homemade". Have you explained to him what
"originality" means in context of Wikipedia? I must explain to you:
This script is readable if the person knows Kurdish because the extra
letters came from ckb language but Kurdish and Lurish are two
different languages with different speakers with different ethnically
backgrounds. please explain the situation properly to him and ask if a
normal Lur who was educated in Iran, can read this script or not.
Best
On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 3:17 PM Oliver Stegen <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
In May 2015, I had contacted Erik Anonby, a Canadian linguist with
specialty in Iranian languages, and he actually verified the
contents of lrc:wp (then still in the incubator). It was him who
also provided contact for Mehdi Moshkriz who is now maligned by
fa:wp editors. [Btw, I do not find Amir Ladsgroup's English much
better than Mogoeilor's.]
I actually assume that this is a predominantly political issue,
and I would caution against allowing fa:wp editors to interfere in
lrc:wp issues - especially when we already have independent
verification from a bona fide Canadian (i.e. non-Persian!)
scholar. I append his reply fyi.
-------------------------------------------------------------
from Erik Anonby's reply (May 2015):
"I know Bakhtiari and Southern Luri a lot better than Northern
Luri – most of my knowledge of N Luri is lexicon and phonology
rather than whole texts.
But from looking at several articles, it looks well-enough written
to me. There are some quirky orthographic things (like splitting
the –e “is” / direct object suffix) off of words, but many fewer
issues than a lot of the other homemade scripts I’ve seen used for
Luri.
The author is also using Khorramabadi dialect, which is the
central dialect but heavily influenced by Persian and not typical
of the language as a whole. He could still use this dialect but
with a bit of accommodation to the language as a whole; for
example, it’s a bit of a shame he doesn’t use Luri verb prefixes
like present/continuous i- (which is used pretty much everywhere
other than in Khorramabad) rather than Khorramabadi mi- (which is
from Persian).
Two scholars who could verify the content (naturalness, spelling,
etc.) better than me are:
Sekandar Amanollahi (retired; I don’t have his contact info)
Mehdi Moshkriz (at Iranshahr University until recently; his email
is [...])
Mehdi is very nice and could probably put you in touch with many
other Luri scholars, too, to check the articles."
On 31-Jan-16 9:02 PM, MF-Warburg wrote:
It's very embarrassing for us if that is true.
Is it possible that the language used is not Northern Lurish, but
at least correct Central L.?
Do we have any other contacts in the linguistic world who could
help verify it?
I agree that the wiki ought to be closed if it's not in a real
language.
Am 30.01.2016 02:46 schrieb "Amir Ladsgroup" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
Hey,
Several days ago a discussion
<https://fa.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D9%82%D9%87%D9%88%D9%87%E2%80%8C%D8%AE%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%87/%DA%AF%D9%88%D9%86%D8%A7%DA%AF%D9%88%D9%86&oldid=16528438#.D9.88.DB.8C.DA.A9.DB.8C_.D9.84.D8.B1.DB.8C>
has been started in Persian Wikipedia regarding Northern[1]
Luri wikipedia (lrc.wikimedia.org <http://lrc.wikimedia.org>).
If I want to give you a summary of the discussion. Mostly
they say script is unreadable (it's greatly different than
Persian script) and also they noted that vocabulary is tried
to be away of Persian (and close to Kuridsh) in a bad way and
thus it's un-understandable for people who talk this variant
of Luri (As it was mentioned this Luri is being spoken in
Khoramabbad and Broujerd, two big cities of Iran). We can
confirm that we showed this wiki to several people who speak
Luri and in either Khoramabad or Boroujerd. None of them
could understand most of content of this wiki. We also
provided a big table at the discussion in Persian Wikipedia
and compared several words in the wiki to what they actually
speak in Northern Luri.
I found this
<http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.langcom/150> in
which User:Mogoeilor told you that Gholamreza Mehramooz
(User:Mehramooz) is a university professor with PhD and
interestingly when we asked about the script in that wiki
User:Mogoeilor (the same person) told us the script is made
up by a User:Mehramooz because he has MSc in linguistics
(edit
<https://lrc.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%DA%A4%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%D9%BE%D8%A6%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%DA%86%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA_%D8%AD%D9%88%D9%99%D9%86%DB%95/%D8%AC%D9%88%D9%99%D8%B1_%DA%A4%D8%A7_%D8%AC%D9%88%D9%99%D8%B1&diff=prev&oldid=26654>)
. More interestingly in his blog he says he has a MSc in
translation studies (published about a year and half ago
<http://www.zistrah.blogfa.com/post/16>) You can verify the
blog in his user page.
[1]: Also an interesting conversation
<https://lrc.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%DA%A4%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%D9%BE%D8%A6%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%DA%86%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA_%D8%AD%D9%88%D9%99%D9%86%DB%95/%D8%AC%D9%88%D9%99%D8%B1_%DA%A4%D8%A7_%D8%AC%D9%88%D9%99%D8%B1&oldid=34935#.D9.84.DB.8A.D8.B1.DB.8C_.D8.B4.D9.88.D9.85.D8.A7.D9.84.DB.8C>
happened in this wiki in Persian. It seems they changed named
of the wiki from Northern Luri to Minjaii Luri "Minjaii" is a
word in Luri that in English means "Centeral Luri"
Best
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