On Wed, 14 Jun 2006, Steven H. McCown wrote:
I like this discussion -- civil and yet in disagreement...cool.
Indeed :-)
Dan Hanks made the following basic points (summarized):
1) parents can update what their kids have done
This is not applicable to Boy Scouts, btw. Only Scoutmasters do this --
with 1 or 2 merit badge exceptions.
Good point. However, it _is_ applicable for Duty to God and Cub Scout
tracking, in which parents can take a large role in the tracking. My
personal "itch to scratch" was a centralized system for DTG tracking.
2) leaders add their okay
3) parents oversee what the scouts are doing
4) Bishops can oversee progress
5) everyone involved on the same page
6) lax keeping correlated with having to deal with "pencil and paper"
Most that I see using the computer write things down on paper and then
transfer them to the computer. It's still a second step that most don't get
around to taking. Any current or former Ward Clerks out there will know
what I mean.
So here's the scenario I envision, which is different from what you're
describing. When I was in the YM presidency, I'd go around and visit each
young man and talk with them about their progress. I had a little Palm-pilot
application I would open up right there and in which I would track their
progress. There was no paper involved. This worked great for me, but if I
could have syncrhonized that data to a centralized repository (which
conveniently also had a web-based front-end) then the rest of the YM
leaders, the Bishopric members, and the parents could all be on the same
page. If parents were on the ball, they could enter the progress themselves,
and everybody would see the same information. If the boys themselves were
web-savvy and wanted to get involved they could also enter the
information, have their parents okay it, etc.
In the system you propose, if I understand it correctly, to be able to
share data I'd have to export it and send a copy to everyone involved.
This is akin to the misery in the corporate world of passing around
endless versions of spreadsheets and Word documents.
The principal reason why I like the centralized model is along the same reasons
why we use normalization in databases--to eliminate redundancy, and ensure
data integrity.
My proposal would be to have the church provide a central system that
would allow each unit to store progress tracking data (for Cub/Boy scouts,
DTG, YM Personal Progress, etc) and to have that data available via a web
interface, as well as an API for whatever applications wanted to access
it. Each unit's database could be encrypted along the lines of what Shane
proposed.
What's disturbing to me here is that you seem to be dismissing other
people's reasons for what they'd like to see without recognizing that each
person's needs and wants are different. You're making broad
generalizations that may hold in your mind, but don't necessarily hold in
everybody else's way of thinking.
You say:
Other than posters saying that 'a web data application' would be 'really
useful', these are the points that I've observed. Even excluding
privacy
concerns, I'm not really seeing the requirement / justification for a
centralized web-accessible system.
I think above, I've laid a pretty good case with several specific points
for why a centralized web-accessible system will be useful for many
individuals. I don't think there's necessarily a "requirement" for any
computerized system to handle this, as certainly it can all be done on
paper anyways.
Having said that, my personal belief is that computers and particularly
web technologies have been developed and are advancing to further the work of
the Lord, to provide greater convenience and efficiency in doing His work.
They provide accelerated means of handling the "administration" tasks so
we can have more time to focus on the "ministering" tasks. I believe a
centralized system will help us to do that.
I'm respectfully asking that you consider that there are needs and
'requirements' that others would like to see that are different from your own.
-- Dan
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