Thanks Peeter!
My reasons exactly (expect the 1000 eur reporting, as in my ledgersmb
are only few very small companies). I have read other request to enable
documents editing and negative answers. So I accepted, that it can not
be done and decided to try sql-ledger again. But if in the future there
would be possibility to hide revoked transactions I start to accept the
possibility to stay using ledgersmb 1.2 until 1.4 has this functionality.
Another problem came to my mind. There would be two types of voiding in
1.4 then:
1. Ones which is caused because of mistakes. Which are normally repaired
by "repost" in 1.2.
2. Ones which must always be visible in reports (which are also in 1.2.
voided using voiding transaction).
1. is used for accountant mistakes, mind changes and so on and 2. is
used for dovuments which can not in principle changed without voiding.
The normal reports should then show only type 2 voiding and full
reporting with all the mistakes should be behind some administrator or
auditing menu.
Would that be reasonable?
Raido
On 05/19/2016 12:32 PM, Peeter Pärtel wrote:
Hi everyone...
So I explain why we need to change invoices... there are many reasons...
Let's start from big one:
Accountants are perfectionist. I have seen many very stressed out
accountants, almost burned out, who use software where they can't make
changes. Every mistake is visible and reminds itself to them and also
their clients / bosses, who ask about those mistakes as they see these
as well.
When we moved over to first SQL-Ledger and then LedgerSMB, this was
the big relief and accountants are much more relaxed and happy persons
because they know it's ok to make mistakes and fix them. And the
best... nobody knows that there even was a mistake.
Practical reasons:
Clients change their minds about order size, products, ask for
additional discounts, want different wording for services etc etc.
Today I just change the invoice according to their wiches and I do it
in LedgerSMB. Then resend. If this would not be possible I would have
to use Word or LibreOffice and remake the invoice there as client
wants one clear invoice. And yes, clients even want to change invoice
receiving company after they have paid it (as private person).
Another big one:
I have developed a script for 1.2 version which generates for me .csv
file which I upload to Estonian Tax Authorites. It includes invoice
information both sales and purchases with partners where we have had
more than 1000 eur worth of invoicing in a given month. It must
include also credit invoices, so total might be less than 1000. There
are some other rules to follow as well. It means I cannot have random
back and forth invoicing in the system or this report would include
them which by the end of day means I would need to do this report
manually or check it manually line by line as I cannot upload
information about invoices which actually didn't happen. Estonian Tax
Authorites check that both parties declare the same information and it
would not match if I have there some voided invoices etc.
And if all this changing means that inventory is messed up in the end,
so be it... so far I have made once a year on 31st of December a
correction into ledger based on the inventory report value and the
difference in balance sheet. So it matches at this point.
Also from regulatory point of view... we are talking about small /
medium companies... trust level between people is very high, so we are
not afraid of fraud by employees. Also I have nightly backups and few
times a year when somebody really messes up something I restore the
old copy and compare... and find the mistake.
From Estonian Tax Authorities perspective... they have never asked for
audit log or something like that. Just the list of invoices which
include VAT, or whats inside cash account. That's pretty much it.
Banks want balance sheets and income statements. Nobody really cares
how many mistakes there were or how they got corrected.
I understand this might not be the case in all countries, but we need
a stress free working environment which is flexible and allows
correction of everything as needed.
Before using SQL-Ledger / LedgerSMB I used HansaWorld and back then
there was no way to correct changes... only way was to make a text
backup copy and then search from there where the mistake is and
correct and then reimport the backup copy... with bigger database it
toke like a day or more... and I had to do it couple of times. I had
enough, that's why we changed. Nowadays it's much easier with
HansaWorld as well because I can give changing rights to a specific
user who can open old documents, change them and close them. Yes this
person needs to know what he or she is doing and correct manually some
other things as well, so everything balances but once You learn what
needs to be done, it's doable.
I really hope this helps the developers and You will develope some
userfriendly way to make changes into existing documents, so I can
finally upgrade from 1.2 to a newer version.
All the Best,
Peeter Pärtel
2016-05-18 18:38 GMT+03:00 Erik Huelsmann <ehu...@gmail.com
<mailto:ehu...@gmail.com>>:
Hi Peeter,
On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 4:51 PM, Peeter Pärtel <pee...@sigma.ee
<mailto:pee...@sigma.ee>> wrote:
Hi Raido,
I'm in progress on translating LedgerSMB to Estonian. As I
have other commitments right now, it's on pause.
Wel, maybe the two of you can get the translation done together?
If one knows some of the terms and the other has some time to go
over the strings, that might make it a lighter effort for both?
First I just added to 1.4 translation all I have used for 1.2
translation. There is a lot of new things in 1.4 and I don't
have a working 1.4 right now.
*For others: Did I understand correctly that in 1.3 and 1.4
and 1.5 I cannot change documents once they are saved? If it
is so, it seems I'm stuck with 1.2, as this is a must have
functionality for us.*
Can you explain your workflow and the reason that this is the
case? I'm trying to understand the reasons why people would not be
able to migrate to the new versions. One reason is that the newer
versions are technically a *lot* more sound than 1.2 and before.
If nobody is going to use that effort, it's simply been a waste of
time (not your fault!).
As you can understand, it's pretty important to us to understand
why you think you can't do without editing of transactions. In
what situations do you normally edit transactions? How often is
that (as compared to how often you enter transactions, of course!)
(I stepped in at 1.3.0 and make my share of mistakes, but have
worked without transaction editing from day one -- and survived
:-) so I need a bit of help here).
Thanks for taking the time to help us improve the software and
make it useable for you!
--
Bye,
Erik.
http://efficito.com <http://efficito.com/> -- Hosted accounting
and ERP.
Robust and Flexible. No vendor lock-in.
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