That's the ticket. You have found what yo needed. Sometimes thinking outside the box gets you in the correct box. ;-) Rich in LA CA
--- On Wed, 5/26/10, Scott Hall <seh0...@gmail.com> wrote: > From: Scott Hall <seh0...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Sourcing question > To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 9:46 AM > A few comments back: > > 1. The title of the website is in italics, which you > can't see here > because of the Plain Text e-mail format. > 2. Including the stamped page number is a good > idea. I'll have to > experiment with the templates to see which provide the best > way to do > this. I suppose the easiest is simply to add it to > the "Item of > interest" line. I, of course, would manually have to > add the commas, > etc. (unlike the census template which does this for you). > 3. The Mount Hope Cemetery Office (essentially > anything I put after > that semi-colon) is my attempt to properly credit the > original source, > as recommended by Mills (also demonstrated in the census > template > which cites a NARA microfilm roll). The U of R didn't > create the > cemtery records, the cemetery did. > 4. As with the census, the "index" (or database if > you prefer) is > only the means to the original interrment records. It > is the original > interrment records from which I am gathering my > information. There is > nothing transcribed, nothing copied. They are a > digital image of the > actual record. The "index" is really more like a > table of contents -- > enter "Or 1947" to go straight to the digial image of the > "Or" page > within the particular book that covers 1947 (well sort > of). It's > really only step away from perusing the actual books > themselves. > > I think I found the answer in Mills' book, under the Local > & State > Records chapter (p. 439): > "When you cite a digital image of a record, you are citing > the > record—albeit in surrogate form. With [cemetery] > records, you may > cite that digital image in the same manner you would the > original. > Then, in place of the repository's name, you append the > identification > of the web publication, including the details outlined at > 2.33. > > §2.34 (p.58) adds clarity to the database v. image > debate: "Web > providers ... offer digital material in three forms: (a) > images of > orignal records [my scenario], (b) databases that compile > historical > data from the original images ... . The three types > do not carry the > same wieth on any scale by which evidence is > appraised. Thus our > citations to websties should specifically state the type of > digial > file we are using, ... . > > If I follow this guideline, it may eliminate the source of > a source of > a source (original records of the cemetery microfilmed and > placed on a > CD and made available online by the library). This > would also seem to > align with the citation examples for censuses viewed via a > website. > The only challenge is that there is no official name for > the original > record. Through manipulation of the URL, I can > navigate to the first > page of the book, which is stock book simply titled > "Schlicht's > Standard Index" which was nothing more than a book of blank > pages the > cemetery used to record interrments. So, perhaps we > must assume a > title? Perhaps something like this: > > Bibliography: > Mount Hope Cemetery. "Mount Hope Cemetery Interrment > Index." Digital > images. University of Rochester River Campus Libraries, > <i>Mt. Hope & > Riverside Cemetery Records</i>. > http://www.lib.rochester.edu/index.cfm?PAGE=3559 : > 2010. > > Reference Note: > "Mount Hope Cemetery Interrment Index". p. 534, > George B. Oswold > (interred 10 August 1935); digital images, University of > Rochester > River Campus Libraries, <i>Mt. Hope & Riverside > Cemetery Records</i> > (http://www.lib.rochester.edu/IN/RBSCP/Databases/IMAGES/MtHope/disc2/00000658.pdf > : accessed 5 May 2010). > > I could also append the reference note detailing the source > of the > source (ala the census' "citing NARA microfilm ...") but > I'm not sure > what to cite...the site doesn't actually cite anything, > although a > paragraph does provide some the provenance of the > records. Perhaps in > conflict with the census citation recommendation, the > citation under > Local & State Records does not include a subsequent > "citing" note. > > The one problem I see with this is that I do not think > there is a way > to have different URLs in the bibliography and reference > note. The > only way I can think of is to overwrite the reference note > at each > detail citation. This also seems necessary as the > template does not > record the reference note in the proper order (the item of > interest is > placed after the website title and URL). > > I have not yet gleaned from Mills' book when it is > appropriate to > include the item of interest upfront, ala the censuses, and > when to > put at the back. > > Here's another question -- let's say a template other than > the one I > used is a better choice. Is there a way to "convert" > one template to > another? In this case, it seems like Generic > Source>Online Database > is superior to > > > > Thanks... > > Scott > > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Connie Sheets <clshee...@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > Scott, > > > > I think you've done well with a complicated > situation! Some of my comments and questions would be: > > > > The title of the website item, "Mt. Hope and Riverside > Cemetery Records" should be in quotes, IMO. > > > > Why did you not include the stamped page number on > which Mr. Oswold's name appears? > > > > What does Mount Hope Cemetery Office refer to? I may > have missed it, but I see no reference to the cemetery > office on the website? [I never cite something I don't know > for certain from the source I'm looking at, unless it's as > an explanatory comment]. > > > > As mentioned in my previous post on this thread, I > would include a description of the images, i.e. that they > appear to be a multi-volume index, that the handwriting > suggests the index may not have been prepared at the time of > the burial, and that it is not clear which volume of the > index has been imaged. > > > > My citation might look something like this: > > > > "Mt Hope & Riverside Cemetery Records," database > and digital images, River Campus Libraries, University of > Rochester (http://www.lib.rochester.edu/index.cfm?page=3310 : > accessed 5 May 2010), entry for George B. Oswold (1935), p. > 525 (stamped) of handwritten index, volume name not > provided. The consistency of the handwriting suggests the > index was not prepared at the time of the burials. > > > > Although I wrote this citation "from scratch," I can > replicate it with the Internet > Database and images > template. > > > > Connie > > > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Scott Hall <seh0...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> From: Scott Hall <seh0...@gmail.com> > >> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Sourcing question > >> To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com > >> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 1:19 PM > >> Hey all... thanks for the dialog. > >> > >> Here's what I currently built, using the Cemetery > Records > >> template. > >> > >> University of Rochester River Campus > Libraries—Department > >> of Rare > >> Books, Special Collections and Preservation, Mt. > Hope & > >> Riverside > >> Cemetery Records Database and images > >> (http://www.lib.rochester.edu/index.cfm?page=3310 : > >> accessed 5 May > >> 2010), George B. Oswold (interred 10 August 1935); > Mount > >> Hope Cemetery > >> Office. > >> > >> Italics are removed, of course, due to the Plain > Text > >> formatting. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Legacy User Group guidelines: > > > > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp > > > > Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > > > > Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. > 21 2009: > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ > > > > Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp > > > > To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > Legacy User Group guidelines: > > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp > > Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > > Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 > 2009: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ > > Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp > > To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp > > > > Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
