Hi, Is good to see the path ahead and the upcoming focus.
On 23/03/20 8:11 a. m., Edward K. Ream wrote: > 3. Imo, live coding is a dead end. The cool demos are toys which can > not be scaled up: > > A: *Graphics*: Any graphics-based demo could be more easily recreated > with a slider that changes the graphics values. > > Alternatively, you could just put your graphics code into a Leo node > and hit Ctrl-B when you are ready for a new run. > > You could create an @button node to rerun the graphics code on every > Leo keystroke, but that's just silly. Most of the time you would > either get a syntax error or a graph using an intermediate value. > > B: *Music*. Similarly, a "live" music app would be more usefully > coded with sliders. > > C. *Apps*. Changing a large app on the fly is either silly, or > dangerous, or both. > > I am not going to invest in learning the tools of the Pharo world. > Otoh, browsing such tools lead me to Bokeh, so the time was well spent :-) Live Coding has been a "dead end" full of "toys" for non-live coders since about 40 years when file based editing, compiling, interpreting, realoading programming style (Unix, C and friends) took over programmers imagination and over live coding systems (Lisp Symbolic Machines and Smalltalk Dynabook ones). Fortunately live coding is being alive and kicking since its beginnings without the pressure of main stream programming paradigms and languages. Sliders could help here and there, but no amount of icons and sliders will replace the power of symbolic programming. I would like to see sliders based code editing for Leo sources, and just being able to express code manipulation that someone already pre-programed in a slider as a replace of direct textual manipulation. I can't imagine how software as a graph[1], (Python powered) music[2][2a] or the idea of programming as performance[3] can be expressed only via sliders and I can't imagine neither any creative endeavors advised to not do changes on the fly because of the previous conception of live coding (for example don't do your live coding is Jupyter, it's just a toy that can be scaled up or don't do data manipulation on the fly because of the silliness and danger of such approach). [1] https://vimeo.com/94724841 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXNB1BbKY8A [2a] https://foxdot.org/ [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lTZ8Tuyu5I Of course different readings of diverse tech ecosystems are important and anyone can choose to explore (or not) some particular stack(s). In my case, as a non-professional coder, as live coding and moldability became more and more important I saw that Python was not the path to follow, but that path (which has its value despite not being the one I would stay) let me to Leo and this community and after that to Pharo, Roassal, etc. So despite not being an active user of Python or Leo, because they don't provide the live coding + moldability I want/need, it has been time well spent/invested and still is to be around in this community. Cheers, Offray -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/fbdeab87-05be-7b6e-21da-a626b112b2e4%40riseup.net.
