Part of the problem is the use of publications to drive academic "retention, tenure, promotion." Publications should be vetted by a set of peers that only allow publication of quality goods. The journals are supposed to be the gate-keepers and enforcers of quality. This means that the people trying to publish have an incentive to publish as much as they can.
Having the authors pay gives the supposed gatekeepers an economic incentive to publish more and lower quality. If costs are not paid by the subscribers (who should in principle only pay for quality goods) then it is hard to find a model that is going to keep the bar high enough. Professional societies (IEEE, ACM, etc.) can probably maintain quality in this scenario. But that decreases the number of journals and the amount of available info... On 04/08/2013 04:19 PM, michael gurstein wrote: > I'm wondering whether some global equivalent of the copyright collection > societies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_collective might not > work although they would need to be updated to reflect current issues > around CC and related licensing… Richer institutionscould pay in for > access to Open Access journals perhaps on a pay per usage basis and > given a relatively modest cost structure for OA journals this might be > sufficient to cover operating costs on a Robin Hood basis for poorer and > LDC libraries. …just a thought. > > > > M > > > > *From:*[email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *LISTS > *Sent:* Monday, April 08, 2013 10:58 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [liberationtech] For everyone and their grad students: > Fake, pay-to-publish journals & conferences > > > > Indeed, this would be a problem. However, it's already a problem, which > is to say that poorer universities cannot afford subscriptions to EBSCO > and whatnot to begin with, and thus their faculty have trouble keeping > up with research in comparison to those at richer schools. What I'm > suggesting here could at least alleviate this problem, because richer > schools would subsidize /access/ to research. > > Moreover, I'm imagining that the cost of pay-to-publish would be far > lower than for-profit schemes like T&F and Elsevier, thus enabling > poorer school's libraries to save money and actually increase their > faculty's ability to do research (assuming that's their mission). > However, I don't have numbers on this, so I could be wrong. > > - Rob Gehl > > On 04/08/2013 11:52 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > > The problem with this is that faculty from wealthier universities will > have much more capability to publish than faculty from less wealthy > universities. And those who can get their work supported by those with money > have an upper hand of getting more information out than those who do not have > their work supported. There is already enough of this in grants perhaps. > Maybe we could envision something like low cost subscriptions so that > individuals or universities could pay a small fee to journals they use a lot. > This works well on a number of political blogs. > > > > Michael > > ________________________________________ > > From: [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > [[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>] on behalf of LISTS > [[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>] > > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 1:45 PM > > To: [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [liberationtech] For everyone and their grad students: Fake, > pay-to-publish journals & conferences > > > > Or, potentially, university libraries could shift from buying > > subscriptions to paying for their university faculty's publication fees. > > If the ultimate product is an open access publication, then the issue > > isn't paying for access, but rather paying to produce the public good. > > > > - Rob Gehl > > > > On 04/08/2013 11:42 AM, michael gurstein wrote: > > Publishing may be dirt cheap but any systematic/formal e.g. academic > > publishing isn't free... So the problem is that while there is a > necessary > > and valuable shift from commercial publishing (and outrageous > profiteering) > > to open access online publishing there really aren't any good business > > models yet to cover the (much less but not totally trivial) costs of > the new > > forms of academic publishing. > > > > If for whatever reason (and there are lots including the issues > pointed to > > here) one doesn't want to go to a pay for play model that leaves > > advertising(???) or donations (???) or... > > > > M > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Richard > > Brooks > > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 9:34 AM > > To: [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [liberationtech] For everyone and their grad students: > Fake, > > pay-to-publish journals & conferences > > > > It's not curious. It is accurate. As the funding model moved from > > subscribers paying for access to authors paying for publication, the > > financial incentives changed as well. The loosening of standards is an > > obvious consequence of this decision. > > > > The question of how best to publish quality academic information is > > non-trivial. Like the question of where to get quality current affairs > > information. It will take a while for things to adjust to the ability > of the > > Internet to make publishing dirt-cheap. > > > > > > > > On 04/08/2013 12:19 PM, James Losey wrote: > > I think it's curious how this article frames the journals as "open > > access" rather than a more appropriate "pay to play" > > > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Yosem Companys > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>> > wrote: > > > > From: Nathaniel Poor <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>> > > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/health/for-scientists-an-exploding-w > > orld-of-pseudo-academia.html > > > > "The scientists who were recruited to appear at a conference > called > > Entomology-2013 thought they had been selected to make a > presentation > > to the leading professional association of scientists who > study > > insects. But they found out the hard way that they were > wrong...." > > > > This has been a problem for a while, but now it's big enough > to be a > > newspaper story. > > > > ------------------------------- > > Nathaniel Poor, Ph.D. > > http://natpoor.blogspot.com/ > > https://sites.google.com/site/natpoor/ > > -- > > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change > password > > by emailing moderator at [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]> or changing your settings at > > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change > password by > > emailing moderator at [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> or changing your settings > > at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > > > > > > -- > > =================== > > R. R. Brooks > > > > Associate Professor > > Holcombe Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Clemson > > University > > > > 313-C Riggs Hall > > PO Box 340915 > > Clemson, SC 29634-0915 > > USA > > > > Tel. 864-656-0920 > > Fax. 864-656-5910 > > email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > web: http://www.clemson.edu/~rrb > > > > -- > > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > > emailing moderator at [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> or changing your settings at > > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > > > > -- > > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > emailing moderator at [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> or > changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > > > > -- > > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > emailing moderator at [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> or > changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > > > > > > -- > > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > emailing moderator at [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> or > changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > > > > > > -- > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > emailing moderator at [email protected] or changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > -- =================== R. R. Brooks Associate Professor Holcombe Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Clemson University 313-C Riggs Hall PO Box 340915 Clemson, SC 29634-0915 USA Tel. 864-656-0920 Fax. 864-656-5910 email: [email protected] web: http://www.clemson.edu/~rrb -- Too many emails? 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