Your interpretation of the First Amendment must be twisted by your atheism.
The only violation of the 1st Amendment would be if someone was forced to pray. Any voluntary prayer is totally within the free exercise of religion. Even those who are compelled to attend public schools are in no way compelled to pray. When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. These both show that a) a creator, or God is the source of natural law, and that b) the Founders were not secularists. There is no morality without an authority. Try reducing your natural law and secular morality down to their source and you come up with nothing. Without a creator you have nothing to create values. If there is no spiritual power, then why does life, or even liberty have value? If all there is, is what we have in the material world, then there is no reason to live or strive to excel. _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 10:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Libertarian] Re: Fwd: The "W" In Christmas The 1st amendment isn't "weakened" by school prayer, it's utterly violated. The 1st amendment is not merely to prevent a government sanctioned religion (which is what this is), it's here to keep all government out of religion and all religion out of government. The United States Government and its laws didn't come from Judeo-Christian ethics, biblical teachings, or monotheism. They came from natural law and secular morality. I'm an atheist, and I say if we're going to have any religious doctrine posted in courthouses, that it only be Muslim teachings, and prayers in school only if they're on prayer rugs pointed toward Mecca, and our money should say "Allah be Praised" instead of "In God We Trust". And when you go to court, you should swear on the Quran. How about that? This is equally appropriate as what's happening right now. --- In [email protected], "justo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mark, it is whining. The 1st Amend is not at all weakened by school > prayer, plays, or what-ever. As long as the State does not back a > religion, there is no issue here. If it' your tax dollars that concerns > you and how they are being misspent by local and Federal Gov. you're > overlooking the many other public school waste that's going on right > under your nose. > > I'm an atheist, so there's no reason for me to defend any particular > religion or school prayer or 10C's on some court-house. I simply don't > see the threat of "modern" Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. wanting to > place their mark on society in one way or another. As long the State > does not impose or spend your tax dollars to this end, the 1st Amend is > not at all being eroded in any way. > > Property rights should be our focus; the corner stone of our liberty. > And, when I say property rights. I mean in every regard; both tangible > and intangible. We should focus our attention of the core issues that > erode that freedom. "coercion" by special groups who want entitlements > and special laws that favor them and achieve all this by tamping into > our pockets with all sorts of tax schemes. > > Cheers, > > Justo > <HYPERLINK "http://www.NuGamers.com"http://www.NuGamers.com> www.NuGamers.com > Kingwood & Woodlands, Tx. Game Club > > "Life, Liberty, & Property Rights." > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of mark robert > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [Libertarian] Re: Fwd: The "W" In Christmas > > Justo, > > > > I agree that discussing getting the gov out of schools and ending > their "schemes" is important. But I disagree that discussing what > qualifies as a violation of the fist part of the first amendment > is "whining". > > > > -Mark > > > > _____ > > > > You're not the only one paying for the public schools and it > really makes no sense to > equate separation of church and state with a Christmas school > play or > what ever that was. There's a huge difference between State > sanctioned > religion and a Christmas show on a public school stage. > > IMHO, this is picking pepper out of fly-sh!t and only ;ends > itself to > entertain us. The subject of substance that should be addressed > is > coercive tax schemes used to fund public education. > Unfortunately, we > all prefer to go on whining about church & state issues, from > both > sides, than take the necessary steps to end social engineering > taxation > schemes. > > > Cheers, > > Justo > > > > _____ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ForumWebSiteAt HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lib ertarian > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Libertarian > <HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Libertarian&w1=Libertarian&w2=Engli"htt p://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Libertarian&w1=Libertarian&w2=Engli > sh+language&w3=Political+parties&w4=Online+dictionary&w5=American+politi > cs&c=5&s=108&.sig=jGQnaRhfv4RQgZXyK4kr1w> > English > <HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=English+language&w1=Libertarian&w2="htt p://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=English+language&w1=Libertarian&w2= > English+language&w3=Political+parties&w4=Online+dictionary&w5=American+p > olitics&c=5&s=108&.sig=QWSjIRDd7cCvA3JjWf5fnQ> language > Political > <HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Political+parties&w1=Libertarian&w2"htt p://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Political+parties&w1=Libertarian&w2 > =English+language&w3=Political+parties&w4=Online+dictionary&w5=American+ > politics&c=5&s=108&.sig=Nmlb2J_kcrDDcS9fz-a4eg> parties > > Online > <HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Online+dictionary&w1=Libertarian&w2"htt p://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Online+dictionary&w1=Libertarian&w2 > =English+language&w3=Political+parties&w4=Online+dictionary&w5=American+ > politics&c=5&s=108&.sig=tfMLc2NuNqcAdgFcVdgR3Q> dictionary > American > <HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=American+politics&w1=Libertarian&w2"htt p://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=American+politics&w1=Libertarian&w2 > =English+language&w3=Political+parties&w4=Online+dictionary&w5=American+ > politics&c=5&s=108&.sig=Q4Bxp3h_3TNlBQAgwWP-kw> politics > > > _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "Libertarian > <HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lib ertarian> " on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service <HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . > > _____ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ForumWebSiteAt HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lib ertarian _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian"Libertarian"; on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"Libertar [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! 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