What part of "Nobody is saying you can't sell your property" did you have a hard time understanding?. I'm not saying you can't buy property. I'm not saying you can't sell property. All I'm saying is that you do not have a right to sell foreign goods in America unless you pay a tariff. You have a choice of where you will buy your goods. You can buy them here, you can buy them somewhere else. Nobody is forcing you into buying them either way. But if you CHOOSE of your own volition to buy foreign goods for the intent of selling them in this country you care CHOOSING of your own volition to pay the tariff associated with importing those goods here. You own your property outright and you can do whatever you want with you. You can dump it at sea or you can pay a tariff to bring those goods into this country.
A tariff is a ticket to ride on a train. If you want to get on the ride, you have to have a ticket. It doesn't matter how much you claim to have a RIGHT to be on the train, unless you have a ticket, you don't get to ride. You can buy all the luggage you want in the world. But if you want to put the luggage on the train, you're going to have to buy a ticket. I haven't tried to "spin" anything. I've truthfully, honestly, and factually said that a 3% flat tariff is not protectionism. Every single economist on earth (including the libertarian ones) would agree with me. The reason people choose to import goods rather than buy them domestically is because those goods are so cheap, that with the tariff, they are still making a greater profit than if they had purchased the same goods domestically. That being said, a 3% non-protectionist tariff would not increase the price of domestic goods. In fact for most importers, this would give them a tremendous advantage over their current situation. If anything it would lower the price of domestic goods because foreign goods could be sold cheaper than they are now. Prove that you have a right to just show up in some foreign country with American goods and start selling them even if the majority of people and government of that country don't want you there? --- In [email protected], Cory Nott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well, then, you are saying I can't sell my property. It doens't matter the origin of the property. There's no "privilege" attached to property ownership that is determined by any other the property owner, unless force is initiated in some way against that owner. > > So this "right" that you claim is inherent, does not come at the cost of my ability to purchase goods at their actual price rather than whatever the government says they should be? No matter how you spin it Paul, tariffs force people to pay more for domestic goods than they are actually worth. Someone has to initiate that force, since as far as I am aware, tariffs aren't voluntary. > > > > > Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Nobody is saying you can't sell your property. Just that you can't > sell property you bought in foreign countries in this one unless you > pay for the privilege. That doesn't mean you can't sell it. Perhaps > you can sell it in the country in which you bought it. > > The United States of America belongs to the people of the United > States, and unless you are an anarchist who doesn't recognize the fact > that we have borders, and laws, which separate us from different > countries, you'll realize that any market that is within the United > States also belongs to the people of the United States. This isn't > collectivist or socialist in any sense. If I said the state of > California belongs to the United States, I'm saying that it is part of > the United States and falls under the laws of the United States. > > The U.S. Constitution is most definately a libertarian document in > every sense of the word. > > I never claimed that stock in American markets comes from the > Constitution. Even if we didn't have a Constitution I would still be > a legitimate owner of the American markets as long as we had an America. > > My rights don't come from the Constitution, they are protected by it. > > > > > --- In [email protected], Cory Nott <corynott@> wrote: > > > > Paul, just saying something is yours does not make it yours. The US > Constitution may grant the US government the power to regulate > commerce, but that doesn't make it libertarian. The signers of the > Constitution could not assign rights to me, nor take them away. Your > "ownership" of the American markets is an entitlement, not a right, > granted by the Constitution. If the Constitution said every American > had a right to "free" public education and "free" health care, that > would not make them libertarian programs. > > > > If I cannot sell the property that I own, then I do not truly own > it and I have lost some liberty to a collectivist system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul <ptireland@> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], <boyd.w.smith@> wrote: > > > > > I am actually setting up the lemonade stand on MY property. You are > > NOT involved unless you wish to buy my lemonade. It is EXACTLY a > > matter of selling my lemonade on my property. Morally you do not own > > the markets. Despite the constitution. But I do offer you the > > opportunity to prove your point. Again. Something you have not yet > done. > > > Continually repeating you stance is not proof. You can say > > incorrect things millions of times and that does not make them > > correct. You can say unproven assertions billions of times and that > > will not constitute proof. > > > > > > BWS > > > > > > Wrong. You're not setting up the lemonade stand on your property. > > You're setting it up on OUR property, namely the corporation. I am > > involved because I am a co-owner of the markets. Morally I DO own the > > markets. I have proven this many times over. > > > > If a market is owned by all Americans (selling anything within the > > borders of the U.S. makes it MY market and every other American's > > market), you are one stockholder regardless of what property you want > > to sell in it. If you are selling goods made in America, you don't > > have to pay any rent (tariffs) to sell your goods in OUR markets. If > > you choose to bring goods from another country into this one, you must > > pay rent. The fact that you are one stockholder out of 350 million > > does not entitle you to use the company markets for free. > > > > At no point have I ever disputed your ownership of any goods you buy. > > But owning goods does not entitle you to sell those goods inside of > > America. > > > > Every single claim you make claiming that I don't own the markets is a > > lie. Every such claim is entirely false. No matter how much you > > claim the only parties involved are the buyer and seller, you will be > > wrong every time you say it. > > > > America is the domain of all Americans. Your claims that you have a > > right to import goods to sell in America without paying a tariff are > > no different than claiming you can setup a lemonade stand in my front > > yard without my permission or live in my apartments without paying > > rent. It is no less trespass. It is no less theft. > > > > Repeating your claims that you have a right to import and sell goods > > in America or that I don't own the markets don't make them true. You > > have failed to prove your point at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Libertarian English language Political parties > Online dictionary American politics > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Libertarian English language Political parties Online dictionary American politics > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
