From: Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > You have made repeatedly false claims that I support limited > initiation of force by the government when in fact I do not. I have > shown in every case that the force I support on the part of government > is defensive or retaliatory force, and not the initiation of > force.
Then how do you propose to take from people what is theirs by the right of property? > You became frustrated when I refused to allow you to turn the debate > into a personal property issue when it has nothing to do with personal > property ownership. It has to do with public ownership of the > markets, not personal ownership of goods you wish to import. It's not > a matter of my being unwilling to address the personal property rights > side of this issue, it's that this issue has no personal property > rights side to it. On this point you are very very very wrong. This a personal property issue. It has everything to do with property rights. The claim that there is collective ownership of the markets which are created from nothing by the participants only is contrary to the idea of property rights. If property rights exist they exist as an extension of the right to life. the right to life states that I own my life. If I own my life then by extension I own my body which is the vessel of my life. I become in effect the God of my body (a very nice and applicable phrase). If I own my life and my body, then those things that I acquire by using my time (the measure of my life) and my talents and abilities (the attributes of my body) are mine by the right to life and may be called the Right to property. Since those things that i acquire by using my life are extensions of my life and my rights to life and to my body are absolute, then by extension those things that I acquire are mine by absolute right - the Right of Property. Since my right to property is absolute (and that has been shown), an infringement upon that right become an act of aggression upon me and upon my rights. To charge a tarrif on my property is to make an infringement upon my rights because my right to property is an absolute. > At no point have I ever disputed that you own property that you > buy. I've just said you have no right to bring foreign goods into America > for the purpose of selling them in American markets (all markets > inside the borders of America are owned and controlled by the American > public as a whole) without paying a tariff which is attached to > the goods. All markets everywhere are temporary creations of buyer(s) and seller(s). Governemnts do not create them unless they are buyers or sellers. You do not create them except to the extent that you buy and sell. What I create out of nothing (meaning it was not there before) along with others, belongs to me and those others wholely. Not in any way to any uninvolved third party such as the rest of the American people, the US Government or the Mafia or any other third party. > > I've successfully proven that not all taxes amount to the initiation > of force. I've done this with regard to both sales taxes and tariffs > with solid logic, reason, facts, and libertarian philosophy. You keep > pressing the issue, and you get angry when I won't let you derail the > conversation by bringing up red herrings, or unrelated subjects such > as personal property rights. No you have not. Because you keep avoiding the property issue. It is not a red herring, a distraction, or an unrelated subject. It is the absolute rock bottom issue of what we are talking about. > My intelligence, attention span, logic, and philosophical debate > skills are fine and my mind is open to new and better ways of > bringing about a libertarian, but not anarchistic society. You just > haven't come up with anything better than me yet. Actually Rabitt has continuously come up with better than you, day after day post after post and point after point. BWS ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
