Easy now dude! I have to work reading (half blind) and replying in with a whole actual life :)
I'm STILL trying to work in a block of time, energy and attention to give Jon Roland the reply that his post merritts under the subject thread 'Envision UNIVERSAL Libertarianism' Then there's the two women I live with, making a living, doing what I can to help keep Austin 'wierd' and various and sundry others who deserve some conversation from me (keep yer shirt on Angela; or not!) So, I don't object to reminders if I'm taking too long to respond but understand and be assured that if I wanted to just 'blow you off' you would get clear notice :) -Terry Liberty Parker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Terry, we are all awaiting your enlightening response. > > > --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <buckygilbert@> > wrote: > > > > Terry, a most amusing reply. To be frank, I understood this to be a > > forum of respectful exchange. I certainly do not appreciate name > > calling in return for satire. If, in the event, my sarcastic > remarks > > did offend you and appeared to be condescending, then I certainly > do > > apologize, as the comments were meant to be recieved more as > humorous > > than offensive. To be honest, I respect your opinion, yet my point > is > > perhaps the exact opposite of yours, which appears only to be > > condemnatory towards the US. Certainly US foreign policy merits > > OBJECTIVE criticism. Yet, to make such outlandish and overtly broad > > statements suggesting that all "EXISTING authoritarianism is > INFLAMED > > by USA govt policies!", is, in my opinion, baseless. Furthermore, > I > > have never proclaimed, as you claim in your reply, that "ALL > > done by its [the US] govt is ALWAYS 'the RIGHT and BEST thing.' If > > you had read from my earlier post with the same criticism you gave > to > > the prior one, then you would have noted that I said that the US > > HAS "been guilty of blantant abuses" with concern to its foreign > > policy. Having studied the 'Dirty War' in Argentina and become > > personnal friends with a number of desaparecidos, I can assure you > > that Argentina during the 1970s and 1980s is just one such case and > > would be happy to send you documentary evidence to support such a > > statement. > > > > On the other hand, please inform me of one positive comment you > have > > made in regards to the United States in our conversations? And > don't > > continue to infer that just because I don't hate the US and bash it > > at every available opportunity that I don't have issues with US > > foreign policy. Whether you like it or not, we are at war with > > radical Islam. Isolationism and "peace at all costs" simply isn't > an > > option, although I certainly woul prefer that it was. > > > > You said: > > "If you're the savy analyst that you seem to present yourself as, > > > you should be able to identify and disclose, just what are the > > > various and sundry factors (BOTH those unigue to each and those > > > in common with all) to which the 'majorness' of each world class > > > confilct can be attributed." > > > > Again, you apparently weren't listening. I have never presented > > myself as some "savy analyst," as you suggest, while such comments > by > > you gives the impression of immaturity and condescention on your > part > > for anyone who disagrees with whatever apparently sanctimonious and > > overtly arbitrary comments you make. And that my friend is not > > satire. > > > > So, as requested, I will list each area of major conflict involving > > muslims and a brief synopsis. And perhaps, since YOU ARE the only > > one here with an opinion that matters, you can tell the whole group > > what factors in each area can be attributed SOLELY to the US, as > you > > implied in an earlier post. PLease do hurry, as we are all > awaiting > > an enlightening lesson from the authority on American foreign > > policy. And that my friend is condescension. > > > > Kind Sir, you have the floor. > > > > William > > > > > > > > > > ALGERIA: Armed Islamic groups formed and since 1992 have carried > out > > attacks on key economic points, security forces, officials and > > foreigners. In 1995 Algeria's first multiparty presidential > elections > > were held and the incumbent president Liamine Zeroual won 60% of > the > > votes in a poll with a 75% turnout. The first multiparty > legislative > > elections were held in June 1997 which were won by the National > > Democratic Rally, which holds the majority of seats along with the > > FLN. Although the armed wing of the FIS declared a ceasefire in > > October 1997, an extremist splinter group, the Islamic Armed Group > > (GIA), continued attacks. There is also evidence that many attacks > > are carried out by militias backed by the Algerian security forces. > > After years of civil strife, Amnesty International estimates that > > around 80,000 people have died > > > > The Caucasus and Russia: The Central Asian republics have a long > > history of conflicts. Fighting breaks out regularly between > warlords > > and religious groups calling for the establishment of Islamic > states > > outside the Russian Federation. Russia is trying to hold on to the > > federation because the Caucasus is a vital supply route for the oil > > riches of the Caspian and Black Sea. With the break-up of the > Soviet > > Union various groups fought for control in the republics. Conflicts > > from one republic spills over to the other and they continually > blame > > each other for attacks. Chechnya, still part of Russia, was flung > in > > an almost full-scale war in 1994-96 and, after a disastrous > campaign, > > Russia was forced to re-evaluate its involvement in the area. In > > August 1999 Russia stepped up security in the Caucasus region as > > rebels from within Dagestan - a small republic where more than 100 > > languages are spoken - went on the attack in support of Chechnyan > > Muslim groups who claim independence from Russia. In September 1999 > > Russia launched a ground invasion into the area to cut rebels off > > from Central Asian supply routes. By January 2000 Russia was once > > again involved in a full scale conflict in Chechnya. The Caucasus > > issue is complicated by the more than 50 different ethnic groups > each > > insisting to proclaim their religious convictions on the area. The > > situation holds serious danger for neighbouring countries, > > Kazakhstan, Georgia and Russia itself. > > > > > > > > EYGPT: Fundamentalist Muslim rebels seek to topple the secular > > Egyptian government. At least 1,200 people have perished since the > > beginning of the rebellion. The conflict was primarily waged as an > > urban guerrilla/terrorist war. The opposition Muslim Brotherhood > > took part in elections in 2000, indicating that they felt armed > force > > would not work. > > > > > > > > INDONESIA: The struggle on the Indonesia islands is complicated by > > leaders of pro- and anti-independence movements, and by religious > > conflicts. More than 500 churches have been burned down or damaged > by > > Muslims over the past six years. Both the Christians and Muslims > > blame each other for the violence and attempts at reconciliation > made > > little progress. After a bloody struggle East Timor gained > > independence in 1999. The hostilities on other islands continue to > > claim dozens of lives, to such an extent that the break-up of > > Indonesia seem imminent. > > > > > > > > INDIA/PAKISTAN: Muslim separatists in the Indian section declared a > > holy war against the mostly-Hindu India and started attacks in > 1989, > > mainly from Pakistan-occupied section of Kashmir, and from Pakistan > > and Afghanistan. The conflict continues, with Pakistan also > crushing > > rebellions with brute force in their section. > > > > > > > > IRAQ: Supports Islamic terrorist acts around the world. Differing > > culture and religious groups within Iraq continues to clash with > > Shiite Muslims. > > > > > > > > ISRAEL: Within its own borders, Israel continues to battle various > > Muslim organizations that seek independence for a Palestine state, > > areas made up of the Gaza strip, West.Bank, and part of Jerusalem. > > There is heavy international pressure on Israel to recognise a > > Palestinian state. The area of what today is Palestine was settled > by > > Semitic tribes at a very early date. It was then called Canaan, and > > controlled by Canaanite tribes for more than 1,000 years. In about > > 1500 BC Hebrew, or Jewish, tribes began to enter the area. They > later > > came into conflict with a people of Greek origin known as the > > Philistines. It is from them that the term Palestine is derived. > > > > > > > > IRAN: After the Iranian Revolution in 1979 toppled the government > of > > the Shah, the Mujahadeen Khalq soon began a bloody guerrilla war > > against the new Islamic government. The Mujahadeen are currently > > based in Iraq and conduct cross-border raids into Iran, as well as > > conducting urban guerrilla operations in the cities and conducting > > political assassinations. Iran occasionally launches raids against > > Khalq bases in Iraq. > > > > > > > > KOSOVO: The ethnic Albanian KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) in this > > Serbian province fought a guerilla war against Serbia to claim the > > region. Beginning in February 1999, Albanians were forced out of > the > > province, prompting NATO to attack Serbia. By July 1999 Serb troops > > were forced out of Kosovo, only to open an avenue for Albanian > > Kosovars to attack Serb Kosovars. The Albanian Muslims have since > > burned down dozens of centuries-old Christian churches. In an > effort > > to establish a Greater Albania, Albanian Muslim rebels also > launched > > attacks in Macedonia. > > > > > > > > NIGERIA: There are violent religious clashes in the city of Kaduna > in > > northern Nigeria beginning February 21 2004 and have continued. > > Kaduna is the second largest city in the north. The clashes > followed > > a march by tens of thousands of Christians to protest the proposal > to > > introduce Muslim sharia law as the criminal code throughout Kaduna > > state. Reports speak of rival armed gangs of Christians and Muslims > > roving the streets. Churches and mosques have been put to the > torch. > > Corpses were seen lying in the streets and people's bodies hanging > > out of cars and buses, apparently killed while attempting to flee > the > > violence. Local human rights workers said that more than 400 had > been > > killed as a result of the clashes. > > > > > > > > SUDAN: The largest country in Africa, has been plagued by a > > succession of unstable civilian and military governments since it > > gained independence in 1956 from an Anglo-Egyptian condominium. The > > long-running conflict continues between the Arab Muslim northerners > > of Sudan, (the base of the government), and the African Christians > of > > the south. In the mid-90s Sudan was home to Osama bin Ladin, the > > international terrorist responsible for the World Trade Center > > attack. It is estimated that more than 1,2 million people have been > > killed in the Sudan war, brining devastation to the Sudanese > economy. > > > > PHILIPPINES: The Phillipines armed forces, with assistance of US > > troops, are fighting Moslem rebels - they have been linked to Osama > > bin Laden's el Qaeda terrorist group - on the southern islands of > the > > country. Muslim rebel groups seek autonomy/independence from the > > mostly Christian Philippines. One rebel group, the Abu Sayaf Group, > > is believed linked to Osama bin-Laden's Al-Qaida. This connection, > > plus their tactic of kidnapping and beheading Americans, led the > > United States to send Special Forces to aid the Philippine Army. > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker" <txliberty@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Buckygil, how does one who appears as smart as you manage > > > to say things that are so stupid? > > > > > > IDEALISTIC America is a great inspiration in the world! > > > > > > But, that's not well served by jingoism, a pretense that ALL > > > done by its govt is ALWAYS 'the RIGHT and BEST thing' I don't > > > feel capable of judging USA govt interventions as 'the > > > greatest source of evil in the world' but, it's obvious that > > > our power has been destructivly abused. Would not you agree > > > that while perfection's not an option, improvement certainly > > > can be. > > > > > > You note that there are some radical muslims involved in all > > > 13 major conflicts in the world. Are 'ALL' these conflicts > > > made 'major' due to ONLY radicals using a muslim pretext? What > > > else is present to 'inflame' or 'empower' the violent > > > authoritarians? > > > > > > If you're the savy analyst that you seem to present yourself as, > > > you should be able to identify and disclose, just what are the > > > various and sundry factors (BOTH those unigue to each and those > > > in common with all) to which the 'majorness' of each world class > > > confilct can be attributed. > > > > > > Are you willing to so do, here in this forum? > > > > > > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <buckygilbert@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Your right Terry. Everything we do is wrong. The US > government > > is > > > > the greatest source of evil in the world. Every major conflict > > in > > > > the world boils down to American imperialsim. Although all 13 > > > major > > > > conflicts in the world involve radical muslims, it is > undoubtedly > > > the > > > > fault of the US for either causing the conflict or not stepping > > in > > > > the stop it. Long live the terrorists. May they defeat the > evil > > > > empire and hopefully we can all live in an Islamic country and > > work > > > > as slaves to pay back our debt to the world for all we have > done. > > > > PREACH ON BROTHER, PREACH ON!!!!!! > > > > > > > > By the way, i did reply to your post and wonder what you think. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker" > <txliberty@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > EXISTING authoritarianism is INFLAMED by USA govt policies! > > > > > > > > > > for example.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > US Rep Ron Paul (R) Speech in Congress Sept 25, 2001 > > > > > > > > > > In which he described how USA policies help authoritarian > > > > > Islamic extremists in their recruitment for the 'holy war' > > > > > > > > > > "There is no doubt that our policies that are seen by the > > > radicals > > > > as > > > > > favoring one faction over another in the long lasting Middle > > East > > > > > conflict add to the distrust and hatred of America. > > > > > > > > > > The hatred has been suppressed because we are a powerful > > economic > > > > and > > > > > military force and wield a lot of influence. But this > suppressed > > > > > hatred is now becoming more visible and we as Americans for > the > > > most > > > > > part are not even aware of how this could be. Americans have > no > > > > > animosity toward a people they hardly even know. Instead, our > > > > > policies have been driven by the commercial interests of a > few. > > > > > > > > > > And now the innocent suffer" > > > > > > > > > > MuchMoreAt > > > > http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr092501.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AND some history to better understand the middle east > context... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HistoryChannel: a. Crusades in the 'Holy Land' > > > > > part 1 of 2 is two hours of four > > > > > > > http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades1.wmv > > > > > > > > > > HistoryChannel: b. Crusades in the 'Holy Land' > > > > > part 2 of 2 is two hours of four > > > > > > > http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades2.wmv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence of Arabia Documentary (Download ONLY) > > > > > PBS 2hr special providing much insight to today's middle east > > > > turmoil > > > > > WindowsMedia download/playback > > > > > http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/ > > > > > LawrenceArabia.wmv > > > > > (re-assemble above for functional URL) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AND... > > > > > > > > > > feel free to add your own RELIABLE education sources. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignorance may be 'bliss' but it's NOT an 'excuse' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > > > > AND Find More Free On-demand Playbacks On-line via > > > > > AustinLibertyInterNet Radio/TV > > > > > at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/links > > > > > VoiceCall 1.512.462.1776 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Geof Gibson" > <geofgibson@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you cling to the utterly false belief that Muslims on > > the > > > > > other > > > > > > > side of the world who want nothing other than to stop > being > > > > > murdered > > > > > > > and screwed with by the United States are more of a > danger > > to > > > > > > > Americans, than the drug war right here in America which > > has > > > > cost > > > > > more > > > > > > > lives each year than all Muslim terrorist acts ever > > committed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have never refuted, as far as I have read, that the > > > > > Islamofascists > > > > > > state they want to establish a worldwide caliphate and rule > > by > > > > > sharia. > > > > > > Do you have some psychic ability to determine they don't > mean > > > what > > > > > > they say? > > > > > > What about India? There have been more Hindus killed by > > > > > authoritarians using Islam as their pretext than there have > > been > > > > > other denominations and nationalities. You canstantly repeat > > > that > > > > > Muslim extremism is all the fault of the US, but > Islamofascists > > > > hate > > > > > and kill everyone of all faiths wherever they have determined > > the > > > > > infidel must die. How is this the fault of the US? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
