William, no apology by you to me is needed imo, but I appreciate it and for it do say thanks!
I will work in a block of time, energy and attention suitible to examine the summaries you offored (for which effort by you I say thanks), ponder implications, then provide their due response by me; one that is earned by your genuine effort(s). I stll have to do likewise for Jon Roland's message under the subject thread 'Envision UNIVERSAL Libertarianism' So, while this may take awhile, at lest the issue(s) are long term. William, that new wife of yours will of course take priority over any thing else; and your pursuit of this happiness is an important part of that about which we had a revolution :) -Terry Liberty Parker Find More Free On-demand Playbacks On-line via AustinLibertyInterNet Radio/TV at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/links VoiceCall 1.512.462.1776 every Sunday 6:30pm (central) to ? I host informal disscussion to which all are welcome who want to consider ideas & issues of Liberty & Justice for ALL in Hickory St Grill at 8th & Congress, Austin TX Look for me, MyPicAt http://profiles.yahoo.com/txliberty --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Terry, > I believe we got off on the wrong foot here. Perhaps I did > misinterpret what you were saying, being half-blind like you. I > don't believe you hate the US, and objective criticism, of both the > past and present, is merited, especially when millions of lives hang > in the balance. Trust me, I have been one of the worst critics of > the past and present foreign policy our country follows. And I > understood completely that you were not making statements > condemnatory to all of American policy with your post. That's why I > responded with satire. I feel as though you recieved my comments as > perhaps an attack on what you said. I must assure you that I had no > such intentions with the post or any other post I have made. Rest > assured that anything I write is in jest purely, as I respect > opposing viewpoints, although I don't believe we are that far apart > in our views. So, if I have offended you in anyway, I offer my > sincerest apologies. > > I also currently work two jobs, am fooling around with my wedding in > 5 weeks, and continuing my research in the Southern Cone. By the > way,the Southern Cone is my area of, shall we say, 'moderate > expertise.' I don't profess to be an expert in any other arena. > > Good talking with you. > > William > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker" <txliberty@> > wrote: > > > > Easy now dude! > > > > I have to work reading (half blind) and replying in with a > > whole actual life :) > > > > I'm STILL trying to work in a block of time, energy and attention > > to give Jon Roland the reply that his post merritts under the > > subject thread 'Envision UNIVERSAL Libertarianism' Then there's > > the two women I live with, making a living, doing what I can > > to help keep Austin 'wierd' and various and sundry others who > > deserve some conversation from me (keep yer shirt on Angela; > > or not!) > > > > So, I don't object to reminders if I'm taking too long to respond > > but understand and be assured that if I wanted to just 'blow > > you off' you would get clear notice :) > > > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <buckygilbert@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Terry, we are all awaiting your enlightening response. > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <buckygilbert@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Terry, a most amusing reply. To be frank, I understood this to > be > > a > > > > forum of respectful exchange. I certainly do not appreciate > name > > > > calling in return for satire. If, in the event, my sarcastic > > > remarks > > > > did offend you and appeared to be condescending, then I > certainly > > > do > > > > apologize, as the comments were meant to be recieved more as > > > humorous > > > > than offensive. To be honest, I respect your opinion, yet my > > point > > > is > > > > perhaps the exact opposite of yours, which appears only to be > > > > condemnatory towards the US. Certainly US foreign policy > merits > > > > OBJECTIVE criticism. Yet, to make such outlandish and overtly > > broad > > > > statements suggesting that all "EXISTING authoritarianism is > > > INFLAMED > > > > by USA govt policies!", is, in my opinion, baseless. > > Furthermore, > > > I > > > > have never proclaimed, as you claim in your reply, that "ALL > > > > done by its [the US] govt is ALWAYS 'the RIGHT and BEST thing.' > > If > > > > you had read from my earlier post with the same criticism you > > gave > > > to > > > > the prior one, then you would have noted that I said that the > US > > > > HAS "been guilty of blantant abuses" with concern to its > foreign > > > > policy. Having studied the 'Dirty War' in Argentina and become > > > > personnal friends with a number of desaparecidos, I can assure > > you > > > > that Argentina during the 1970s and 1980s is just one such case > > and > > > > would be happy to send you documentary evidence to support such > a > > > > statement. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, please inform me of one positive comment you > > > have > > > > made in regards to the United States in our conversations? And > > > don't > > > > continue to infer that just because I don't hate the US and > bash > > it > > > > at every available opportunity that I don't have issues with US > > > > foreign policy. Whether you like it or not, we are at war with > > > > radical Islam. Isolationism and "peace at all costs" simply > > isn't > > > an > > > > option, although I certainly woul prefer that it was. > > > > > > > > You said: > > > > "If you're the savy analyst that you seem to present yourself > as, > > > > > you should be able to identify and disclose, just what are > the > > > > > various and sundry factors (BOTH those unigue to each and > those > > > > > in common with all) to which the 'majorness' of each world > > class > > > > > confilct can be attributed." > > > > > > > > Again, you apparently weren't listening. I have never > presented > > > > myself as some "savy analyst," as you suggest, while such > > comments > > > by > > > > you gives the impression of immaturity and condescention on > your > > > part > > > > for anyone who disagrees with whatever apparently sanctimonious > > and > > > > overtly arbitrary comments you make. And that my friend is not > > > > satire. > > > > > > > > So, as requested, I will list each area of major conflict > > involving > > > > muslims and a brief synopsis. And perhaps, since YOU ARE the > > only > > > > one here with an opinion that matters, you can tell the whole > > group > > > > what factors in each area can be attributed SOLELY to the US, > as > > > you > > > > implied in an earlier post. PLease do hurry, as we are all > > > awaiting > > > > an enlightening lesson from the authority on American foreign > > > > policy. And that my friend is condescension. > > > > > > > > Kind Sir, you have the floor. > > > > > > > > William > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ALGERIA: Armed Islamic groups formed and since 1992 have > carried > > > out > > > > attacks on key economic points, security forces, officials and > > > > foreigners. In 1995 Algeria's first multiparty presidential > > > elections > > > > were held and the incumbent president Liamine Zeroual won 60% > of > > > the > > > > votes in a poll with a 75% turnout. The first multiparty > > > legislative > > > > elections were held in June 1997 which were won by the National > > > > Democratic Rally, which holds the majority of seats along with > > the > > > > FLN. Although the armed wing of the FIS declared a ceasefire in > > > > October 1997, an extremist splinter group, the Islamic Armed > > Group > > > > (GIA), continued attacks. There is also evidence that many > > attacks > > > > are carried out by militias backed by the Algerian security > > forces. > > > > After years of civil strife, Amnesty International estimates > that > > > > around 80,000 people have died > > > > > > > > The Caucasus and Russia: The Central Asian republics have a > long > > > > history of conflicts. Fighting breaks out regularly between > > > warlords > > > > and religious groups calling for the establishment of Islamic > > > states > > > > outside the Russian Federation. Russia is trying to hold on to > > the > > > > federation because the Caucasus is a vital supply route for the > > oil > > > > riches of the Caspian and Black Sea. With the break-up of the > > > Soviet > > > > Union various groups fought for control in the republics. > > Conflicts > > > > from one republic spills over to the other and they continually > > > blame > > > > each other for attacks. Chechnya, still part of Russia, was > flung > > > in > > > > an almost full-scale war in 1994-96 and, after a disastrous > > > campaign, > > > > Russia was forced to re-evaluate its involvement in the area. > In > > > > August 1999 Russia stepped up security in the Caucasus region > as > > > > rebels from within Dagestan - a small republic where more than > > 100 > > > > languages are spoken - went on the attack in support of > Chechnyan > > > > Muslim groups who claim independence from Russia. In September > > 1999 > > > > Russia launched a ground invasion into the area to cut rebels > off > > > > from Central Asian supply routes. By January 2000 Russia was > once > > > > again involved in a full scale conflict in Chechnya. The > Caucasus > > > > issue is complicated by the more than 50 different ethnic > groups > > > each > > > > insisting to proclaim their religious convictions on the area. > > The > > > > situation holds serious danger for neighbouring countries, > > > > Kazakhstan, Georgia and Russia itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EYGPT: Fundamentalist Muslim rebels seek to topple the secular > > > > Egyptian government. At least 1,200 people have perished since > > the > > > > beginning of the rebellion. The conflict was primarily waged > as > > an > > > > urban guerrilla/terrorist war. The opposition Muslim > Brotherhood > > > > took part in elections in 2000, indicating that they felt armed > > > force > > > > would not work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > INDONESIA: The struggle on the Indonesia islands is complicated > > by > > > > leaders of pro- and anti-independence movements, and by > religious > > > > conflicts. More than 500 churches have been burned down or > > damaged > > > by > > > > Muslims over the past six years. Both the Christians and > Muslims > > > > blame each other for the violence and attempts at > reconciliation > > > made > > > > little progress. After a bloody struggle East Timor gained > > > > independence in 1999. The hostilities on other islands continue > > to > > > > claim dozens of lives, to such an extent that the break-up of > > > > Indonesia seem imminent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > INDIA/PAKISTAN: Muslim separatists in the Indian section > declared > > a > > > > holy war against the mostly-Hindu India and started attacks in > > > 1989, > > > > mainly from Pakistan-occupied section of Kashmir, and from > > Pakistan > > > > and Afghanistan. The conflict continues, with Pakistan also > > > crushing > > > > rebellions with brute force in their section. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IRAQ: Supports Islamic terrorist acts around the world. > Differing > > > > culture and religious groups within Iraq continues to clash > with > > > > Shiite Muslims. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ISRAEL: Within its own borders, Israel continues to battle > > various > > > > Muslim organizations that seek independence for a Palestine > > state, > > > > areas made up of the Gaza strip, West.Bank, and part of > > Jerusalem. > > > > There is heavy international pressure on Israel to recognise a > > > > Palestinian state. The area of what today is Palestine was > > settled > > > by > > > > Semitic tribes at a very early date. It was then called Canaan, > > and > > > > controlled by Canaanite tribes for more than 1,000 years. In > > about > > > > 1500 BC Hebrew, or Jewish, tribes began to enter the area. They > > > later > > > > came into conflict with a people of Greek origin known as the > > > > Philistines. It is from them that the term Palestine is derived. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IRAN: After the Iranian Revolution in 1979 toppled the > government > > > of > > > > the Shah, the Mujahadeen Khalq soon began a bloody guerrilla > war > > > > against the new Islamic government. The Mujahadeen are > currently > > > > based in Iraq and conduct cross-border raids into Iran, as well > > as > > > > conducting urban guerrilla operations in the cities and > > conducting > > > > political assassinations. Iran occasionally launches raids > > against > > > > Khalq bases in Iraq. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KOSOVO: The ethnic Albanian KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) in > this > > > > Serbian province fought a guerilla war against Serbia to claim > > the > > > > region. Beginning in February 1999, Albanians were forced out > of > > > the > > > > province, prompting NATO to attack Serbia. By July 1999 Serb > > troops > > > > were forced out of Kosovo, only to open an avenue for Albanian > > > > Kosovars to attack Serb Kosovars. The Albanian Muslims have > since > > > > burned down dozens of centuries-old Christian churches. In an > > > effort > > > > to establish a Greater Albania, Albanian Muslim rebels also > > > launched > > > > attacks in Macedonia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NIGERIA: There are violent religious clashes in the city of > > Kaduna > > > in > > > > northern Nigeria beginning February 21 2004 and have continued. > > > > Kaduna is the second largest city in the north. The clashes > > > followed > > > > a march by tens of thousands of Christians to protest the > > proposal > > > to > > > > introduce Muslim sharia law as the criminal code throughout > > Kaduna > > > > state. Reports speak of rival armed gangs of Christians and > > Muslims > > > > roving the streets. Churches and mosques have been put to the > > > torch. > > > > Corpses were seen lying in the streets and people's bodies > > hanging > > > > out of cars and buses, apparently killed while attempting to > flee > > > the > > > > violence. Local human rights workers said that more than 400 > had > > > been > > > > killed as a result of the clashes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SUDAN: The largest country in Africa, has been plagued by a > > > > succession of unstable civilian and military governments since > it > > > > gained independence in 1956 from an Anglo-Egyptian condominium. > > The > > > > long-running conflict continues between the Arab Muslim > > northerners > > > > of Sudan, (the base of the government), and the African > > Christians > > > of > > > > the south. In the mid-90s Sudan was home to Osama bin Ladin, > the > > > > international terrorist responsible for the World Trade Center > > > > attack. It is estimated that more than 1,2 million people have > > been > > > > killed in the Sudan war, brining devastation to the Sudanese > > > economy. > > > > > > > > PHILIPPINES: The Phillipines armed forces, with assistance of > US > > > > troops, are fighting Moslem rebels - they have been linked to > > Osama > > > > bin Laden's el Qaeda terrorist group - on the southern islands > of > > > the > > > > country. Muslim rebel groups seek autonomy/independence from > the > > > > mostly Christian Philippines. One rebel group, the Abu Sayaf > > Group, > > > > is believed linked to Osama bin-Laden's Al-Qaida. This > > connection, > > > > plus their tactic of kidnapping and beheading Americans, led > the > > > > United States to send Special Forces to aid the Philippine Army. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker" > <txliberty@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Buckygil, how does one who appears as smart as you manage > > > > > to say things that are so stupid? > > > > > > > > > > IDEALISTIC America is a great inspiration in the world! > > > > > > > > > > But, that's not well served by jingoism, a pretense that ALL > > > > > done by its govt is ALWAYS 'the RIGHT and BEST thing' I > don't > > > > > feel capable of judging USA govt interventions as 'the > > > > > greatest source of evil in the world' but, it's obvious that > > > > > our power has been destructivly abused. Would not you agree > > > > > that while perfection's not an option, improvement certainly > > > > > can be. > > > > > > > > > > You note that there are some radical muslims involved in all > > > > > 13 major conflicts in the world. Are 'ALL' these conflicts > > > > > made 'major' due to ONLY radicals using a muslim pretext? > What > > > > > else is present to 'inflame' or 'empower' the violent > > > > > authoritarians? > > > > > > > > > > If you're the savy analyst that you seem to present yourself > > as, > > > > > you should be able to identify and disclose, just what are > the > > > > > various and sundry factors (BOTH those unigue to each and > those > > > > > in common with all) to which the 'majorness' of each world > > class > > > > > confilct can be attributed. > > > > > > > > > > Are you willing to so do, here in this forum? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" > > <buckygilbert@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Your right Terry. Everything we do is wrong. The US > > > government > > > > is > > > > > > the greatest source of evil in the world. Every major > > conflict > > > > in > > > > > > the world boils down to American imperialsim. Although all > > 13 > > > > > major > > > > > > conflicts in the world involve radical muslims, it is > > > undoubtedly > > > > > the > > > > > > fault of the US for either causing the conflict or not > > stepping > > > > in > > > > > > the stop it. Long live the terrorists. May they defeat the > > > evil > > > > > > empire and hopefully we can all live in an Islamic country > > and > > > > work > > > > > > as slaves to pay back our debt to the world for all we have > > > done. > > > > > > PREACH ON BROTHER, PREACH ON!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, i did reply to your post and wonder what you > > think. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker" > > > <txliberty@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EXISTING authoritarianism is INFLAMED by USA govt > > policies! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > US Rep Ron Paul (R) Speech in Congress Sept 25, 2001 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In which he described how USA policies help authoritarian > > > > > > > Islamic extremists in their recruitment for the 'holy war' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "There is no doubt that our policies that are seen by the > > > > > radicals > > > > > > as > > > > > > > favoring one faction over another in the long lasting > > Middle > > > > East > > > > > > > conflict add to the distrust and hatred of America. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The hatred has been suppressed because we are a powerful > > > > economic > > > > > > and > > > > > > > military force and wield a lot of influence. But this > > > suppressed > > > > > > > hatred is now becoming more visible and we as Americans > for > > > the > > > > > most > > > > > > > part are not even aware of how this could be. Americans > > have > > > no > > > > > > > animosity toward a people they hardly even know. Instead, > > our > > > > > > > policies have been driven by the commercial interests of > a > > > few. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now the innocent suffer" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MuchMoreAt > > > > > > http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr092501.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AND some history to better understand the middle east > > > context... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HistoryChannel: a. Crusades in the 'Holy Land' > > > > > > > part 1 of 2 is two hours of four > > > > > > > > > > > > http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades1.wmv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HistoryChannel: b. Crusades in the 'Holy Land' > > > > > > > part 2 of 2 is two hours of four > > > > > > > > > > > > http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades2.wmv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence of Arabia Documentary (Download ONLY) > > > > > > > PBS 2hr special providing much insight to today's middle > > east > > > > > > turmoil > > > > > > > WindowsMedia download/playback > > > > > > > http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/ > > > > > > > LawrenceArabia.wmv > > > > > > > (re-assemble above for functional URL) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AND... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feel free to add your own RELIABLE education sources. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignorance may be 'bliss' but it's NOT an 'excuse' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > > > > > > AND Find More Free On-demand Playbacks On-line via > > > > > > > AustinLibertyInterNet Radio/TV > > > > > > > at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/links > > > > > > > VoiceCall 1.512.462.1776 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Geof Gibson" > > > <geofgibson@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you cling to the utterly false belief that > Muslims > > on > > > > the > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > side of the world who want nothing other than to stop > > > being > > > > > > > murdered > > > > > > > > > and screwed with by the United States are more of a > > > danger > > > > to > > > > > > > > > Americans, than the drug war right here in America > > which > > > > has > > > > > > cost > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > lives each year than all Muslim terrorist acts ever > > > > committed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have never refuted, as far as I have read, that the > > > > > > > Islamofascists > > > > > > > > state they want to establish a worldwide caliphate and > > rule > > > > by > > > > > > > sharia. > > > > > > > > Do you have some psychic ability to determine they > don't > > > mean > > > > > what > > > > > > > > they say? > > > > > > > > What about India? There have been more Hindus killed > by > > > > > > > authoritarians using Islam as their pretext than there > have > > > > been > > > > > > > other denominations and nationalities. You canstantly > > repeat > > > > > that > > > > > > > Muslim extremism is all the fault of the US, but > > > Islamofascists > > > > > > hate > > > > > > > and kill everyone of all faiths wherever they have > > determined > > > > the > > > > > > > infidel must die. How is this the fault of the US? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
