Terry, I believe we got off on the wrong foot here. Perhaps I did misinterpret what you were saying, being half-blind like you. I don't believe you hate the US, and objective criticism, of both the past and present, is merited, especially when millions of lives hang in the balance. Trust me, I have been one of the worst critics of the past and present foreign policy our country follows. And I understood completely that you were not making statements condemnatory to all of American policy with your post. That's why I responded with satire. I feel as though you recieved my comments as perhaps an attack on what you said. I must assure you that I had no such intentions with the post or any other post I have made. Rest assured that anything I write is in jest purely, as I respect opposing viewpoints, although I don't believe we are that far apart in our views. So, if I have offended you in anyway, I offer my sincerest apologies.
I also currently work two jobs, am fooling around with my wedding in 5 weeks, and continuing my research in the Southern Cone. By the way,the Southern Cone is my area of, shall we say, 'moderate expertise.' I don't profess to be an expert in any other arena. Good talking with you. William --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Easy now dude! > > I have to work reading (half blind) and replying in with a > whole actual life :) > > I'm STILL trying to work in a block of time, energy and attention > to give Jon Roland the reply that his post merritts under the > subject thread 'Envision UNIVERSAL Libertarianism' Then there's > the two women I live with, making a living, doing what I can > to help keep Austin 'wierd' and various and sundry others who > deserve some conversation from me (keep yer shirt on Angela; > or not!) > > So, I don't object to reminders if I'm taking too long to respond > but understand and be assured that if I wanted to just 'blow > you off' you would get clear notice :) > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <buckygilbert@> > wrote: > > > > Terry, we are all awaiting your enlightening response. > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <buckygilbert@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Terry, a most amusing reply. To be frank, I understood this to be > a > > > forum of respectful exchange. I certainly do not appreciate name > > > calling in return for satire. If, in the event, my sarcastic > > remarks > > > did offend you and appeared to be condescending, then I certainly > > do > > > apologize, as the comments were meant to be recieved more as > > humorous > > > than offensive. To be honest, I respect your opinion, yet my > point > > is > > > perhaps the exact opposite of yours, which appears only to be > > > condemnatory towards the US. Certainly US foreign policy merits > > > OBJECTIVE criticism. Yet, to make such outlandish and overtly > broad > > > statements suggesting that all "EXISTING authoritarianism is > > INFLAMED > > > by USA govt policies!", is, in my opinion, baseless. > Furthermore, > > I > > > have never proclaimed, as you claim in your reply, that "ALL > > > done by its [the US] govt is ALWAYS 'the RIGHT and BEST thing.' > If > > > you had read from my earlier post with the same criticism you > gave > > to > > > the prior one, then you would have noted that I said that the US > > > HAS "been guilty of blantant abuses" with concern to its foreign > > > policy. Having studied the 'Dirty War' in Argentina and become > > > personnal friends with a number of desaparecidos, I can assure > you > > > that Argentina during the 1970s and 1980s is just one such case > and > > > would be happy to send you documentary evidence to support such a > > > statement. > > > > > > On the other hand, please inform me of one positive comment you > > have > > > made in regards to the United States in our conversations? And > > don't > > > continue to infer that just because I don't hate the US and bash > it > > > at every available opportunity that I don't have issues with US > > > foreign policy. Whether you like it or not, we are at war with > > > radical Islam. Isolationism and "peace at all costs" simply > isn't > > an > > > option, although I certainly woul prefer that it was. > > > > > > You said: > > > "If you're the savy analyst that you seem to present yourself as, > > > > you should be able to identify and disclose, just what are the > > > > various and sundry factors (BOTH those unigue to each and those > > > > in common with all) to which the 'majorness' of each world > class > > > > confilct can be attributed." > > > > > > Again, you apparently weren't listening. I have never presented > > > myself as some "savy analyst," as you suggest, while such > comments > > by > > > you gives the impression of immaturity and condescention on your > > part > > > for anyone who disagrees with whatever apparently sanctimonious > and > > > overtly arbitrary comments you make. And that my friend is not > > > satire. > > > > > > So, as requested, I will list each area of major conflict > involving > > > muslims and a brief synopsis. And perhaps, since YOU ARE the > only > > > one here with an opinion that matters, you can tell the whole > group > > > what factors in each area can be attributed SOLELY to the US, as > > you > > > implied in an earlier post. PLease do hurry, as we are all > > awaiting > > > an enlightening lesson from the authority on American foreign > > > policy. And that my friend is condescension. > > > > > > Kind Sir, you have the floor. > > > > > > William > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ALGERIA: Armed Islamic groups formed and since 1992 have carried > > out > > > attacks on key economic points, security forces, officials and > > > foreigners. In 1995 Algeria's first multiparty presidential > > elections > > > were held and the incumbent president Liamine Zeroual won 60% of > > the > > > votes in a poll with a 75% turnout. The first multiparty > > legislative > > > elections were held in June 1997 which were won by the National > > > Democratic Rally, which holds the majority of seats along with > the > > > FLN. Although the armed wing of the FIS declared a ceasefire in > > > October 1997, an extremist splinter group, the Islamic Armed > Group > > > (GIA), continued attacks. There is also evidence that many > attacks > > > are carried out by militias backed by the Algerian security > forces. > > > After years of civil strife, Amnesty International estimates that > > > around 80,000 people have died > > > > > > The Caucasus and Russia: The Central Asian republics have a long > > > history of conflicts. Fighting breaks out regularly between > > warlords > > > and religious groups calling for the establishment of Islamic > > states > > > outside the Russian Federation. Russia is trying to hold on to > the > > > federation because the Caucasus is a vital supply route for the > oil > > > riches of the Caspian and Black Sea. With the break-up of the > > Soviet > > > Union various groups fought for control in the republics. > Conflicts > > > from one republic spills over to the other and they continually > > blame > > > each other for attacks. Chechnya, still part of Russia, was flung > > in > > > an almost full-scale war in 1994-96 and, after a disastrous > > campaign, > > > Russia was forced to re-evaluate its involvement in the area. In > > > August 1999 Russia stepped up security in the Caucasus region as > > > rebels from within Dagestan - a small republic where more than > 100 > > > languages are spoken - went on the attack in support of Chechnyan > > > Muslim groups who claim independence from Russia. In September > 1999 > > > Russia launched a ground invasion into the area to cut rebels off > > > from Central Asian supply routes. By January 2000 Russia was once > > > again involved in a full scale conflict in Chechnya. The Caucasus > > > issue is complicated by the more than 50 different ethnic groups > > each > > > insisting to proclaim their religious convictions on the area. > The > > > situation holds serious danger for neighbouring countries, > > > Kazakhstan, Georgia and Russia itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > EYGPT: Fundamentalist Muslim rebels seek to topple the secular > > > Egyptian government. At least 1,200 people have perished since > the > > > beginning of the rebellion. The conflict was primarily waged as > an > > > urban guerrilla/terrorist war. The opposition Muslim Brotherhood > > > took part in elections in 2000, indicating that they felt armed > > force > > > would not work. > > > > > > > > > > > > INDONESIA: The struggle on the Indonesia islands is complicated > by > > > leaders of pro- and anti-independence movements, and by religious > > > conflicts. More than 500 churches have been burned down or > damaged > > by > > > Muslims over the past six years. Both the Christians and Muslims > > > blame each other for the violence and attempts at reconciliation > > made > > > little progress. After a bloody struggle East Timor gained > > > independence in 1999. The hostilities on other islands continue > to > > > claim dozens of lives, to such an extent that the break-up of > > > Indonesia seem imminent. > > > > > > > > > > > > INDIA/PAKISTAN: Muslim separatists in the Indian section declared > a > > > holy war against the mostly-Hindu India and started attacks in > > 1989, > > > mainly from Pakistan-occupied section of Kashmir, and from > Pakistan > > > and Afghanistan. The conflict continues, with Pakistan also > > crushing > > > rebellions with brute force in their section. > > > > > > > > > > > > IRAQ: Supports Islamic terrorist acts around the world. Differing > > > culture and religious groups within Iraq continues to clash with > > > Shiite Muslims. > > > > > > > > > > > > ISRAEL: Within its own borders, Israel continues to battle > various > > > Muslim organizations that seek independence for a Palestine > state, > > > areas made up of the Gaza strip, West.Bank, and part of > Jerusalem. > > > There is heavy international pressure on Israel to recognise a > > > Palestinian state. The area of what today is Palestine was > settled > > by > > > Semitic tribes at a very early date. It was then called Canaan, > and > > > controlled by Canaanite tribes for more than 1,000 years. In > about > > > 1500 BC Hebrew, or Jewish, tribes began to enter the area. They > > later > > > came into conflict with a people of Greek origin known as the > > > Philistines. It is from them that the term Palestine is derived. > > > > > > > > > > > > IRAN: After the Iranian Revolution in 1979 toppled the government > > of > > > the Shah, the Mujahadeen Khalq soon began a bloody guerrilla war > > > against the new Islamic government. The Mujahadeen are currently > > > based in Iraq and conduct cross-border raids into Iran, as well > as > > > conducting urban guerrilla operations in the cities and > conducting > > > political assassinations. Iran occasionally launches raids > against > > > Khalq bases in Iraq. > > > > > > > > > > > > KOSOVO: The ethnic Albanian KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) in this > > > Serbian province fought a guerilla war against Serbia to claim > the > > > region. Beginning in February 1999, Albanians were forced out of > > the > > > province, prompting NATO to attack Serbia. By July 1999 Serb > troops > > > were forced out of Kosovo, only to open an avenue for Albanian > > > Kosovars to attack Serb Kosovars. The Albanian Muslims have since > > > burned down dozens of centuries-old Christian churches. In an > > effort > > > to establish a Greater Albania, Albanian Muslim rebels also > > launched > > > attacks in Macedonia. > > > > > > > > > > > > NIGERIA: There are violent religious clashes in the city of > Kaduna > > in > > > northern Nigeria beginning February 21 2004 and have continued. > > > Kaduna is the second largest city in the north. The clashes > > followed > > > a march by tens of thousands of Christians to protest the > proposal > > to > > > introduce Muslim sharia law as the criminal code throughout > Kaduna > > > state. Reports speak of rival armed gangs of Christians and > Muslims > > > roving the streets. Churches and mosques have been put to the > > torch. > > > Corpses were seen lying in the streets and people's bodies > hanging > > > out of cars and buses, apparently killed while attempting to flee > > the > > > violence. Local human rights workers said that more than 400 had > > been > > > killed as a result of the clashes. > > > > > > > > > > > > SUDAN: The largest country in Africa, has been plagued by a > > > succession of unstable civilian and military governments since it > > > gained independence in 1956 from an Anglo-Egyptian condominium. > The > > > long-running conflict continues between the Arab Muslim > northerners > > > of Sudan, (the base of the government), and the African > Christians > > of > > > the south. In the mid-90s Sudan was home to Osama bin Ladin, the > > > international terrorist responsible for the World Trade Center > > > attack. It is estimated that more than 1,2 million people have > been > > > killed in the Sudan war, brining devastation to the Sudanese > > economy. > > > > > > PHILIPPINES: The Phillipines armed forces, with assistance of US > > > troops, are fighting Moslem rebels - they have been linked to > Osama > > > bin Laden's el Qaeda terrorist group - on the southern islands of > > the > > > country. Muslim rebel groups seek autonomy/independence from the > > > mostly Christian Philippines. One rebel group, the Abu Sayaf > Group, > > > is believed linked to Osama bin-Laden's Al-Qaida. This > connection, > > > plus their tactic of kidnapping and beheading Americans, led the > > > United States to send Special Forces to aid the Philippine Army. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker" <txliberty@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Buckygil, how does one who appears as smart as you manage > > > > to say things that are so stupid? > > > > > > > > IDEALISTIC America is a great inspiration in the world! > > > > > > > > But, that's not well served by jingoism, a pretense that ALL > > > > done by its govt is ALWAYS 'the RIGHT and BEST thing' I don't > > > > feel capable of judging USA govt interventions as 'the > > > > greatest source of evil in the world' but, it's obvious that > > > > our power has been destructivly abused. Would not you agree > > > > that while perfection's not an option, improvement certainly > > > > can be. > > > > > > > > You note that there are some radical muslims involved in all > > > > 13 major conflicts in the world. Are 'ALL' these conflicts > > > > made 'major' due to ONLY radicals using a muslim pretext? What > > > > else is present to 'inflame' or 'empower' the violent > > > > authoritarians? > > > > > > > > If you're the savy analyst that you seem to present yourself > as, > > > > you should be able to identify and disclose, just what are the > > > > various and sundry factors (BOTH those unigue to each and those > > > > in common with all) to which the 'majorness' of each world > class > > > > confilct can be attributed. > > > > > > > > Are you willing to so do, here in this forum? > > > > > > > > > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" > <buckygilbert@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Your right Terry. Everything we do is wrong. The US > > government > > > is > > > > > the greatest source of evil in the world. Every major > conflict > > > in > > > > > the world boils down to American imperialsim. Although all > 13 > > > > major > > > > > conflicts in the world involve radical muslims, it is > > undoubtedly > > > > the > > > > > fault of the US for either causing the conflict or not > stepping > > > in > > > > > the stop it. Long live the terrorists. May they defeat the > > evil > > > > > empire and hopefully we can all live in an Islamic country > and > > > work > > > > > as slaves to pay back our debt to the world for all we have > > done. > > > > > PREACH ON BROTHER, PREACH ON!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > By the way, i did reply to your post and wonder what you > think. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker" > > <txliberty@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > EXISTING authoritarianism is INFLAMED by USA govt > policies! > > > > > > > > > > > > for example.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > US Rep Ron Paul (R) Speech in Congress Sept 25, 2001 > > > > > > > > > > > > In which he described how USA policies help authoritarian > > > > > > Islamic extremists in their recruitment for the 'holy war' > > > > > > > > > > > > "There is no doubt that our policies that are seen by the > > > > radicals > > > > > as > > > > > > favoring one faction over another in the long lasting > Middle > > > East > > > > > > conflict add to the distrust and hatred of America. > > > > > > > > > > > > The hatred has been suppressed because we are a powerful > > > economic > > > > > and > > > > > > military force and wield a lot of influence. But this > > suppressed > > > > > > hatred is now becoming more visible and we as Americans for > > the > > > > most > > > > > > part are not even aware of how this could be. Americans > have > > no > > > > > > animosity toward a people they hardly even know. Instead, > our > > > > > > policies have been driven by the commercial interests of a > > few. > > > > > > > > > > > > And now the innocent suffer" > > > > > > > > > > > > MuchMoreAt > > > > > http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr092501.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AND some history to better understand the middle east > > context... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HistoryChannel: a. Crusades in the 'Holy Land' > > > > > > part 1 of 2 is two hours of four > > > > > > > > > http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades1.wmv > > > > > > > > > > > > HistoryChannel: b. Crusades in the 'Holy Land' > > > > > > part 2 of 2 is two hours of four > > > > > > > > > http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades2.wmv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence of Arabia Documentary (Download ONLY) > > > > > > PBS 2hr special providing much insight to today's middle > east > > > > > turmoil > > > > > > WindowsMedia download/playback > > > > > > http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/ > > > > > > LawrenceArabia.wmv > > > > > > (re-assemble above for functional URL) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AND... > > > > > > > > > > > > feel free to add your own RELIABLE education sources. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignorance may be 'bliss' but it's NOT an 'excuse' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > > > > > AND Find More Free On-demand Playbacks On-line via > > > > > > AustinLibertyInterNet Radio/TV > > > > > > at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/links > > > > > > VoiceCall 1.512.462.1776 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Geof Gibson" > > <geofgibson@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you cling to the utterly false belief that Muslims > on > > > the > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > side of the world who want nothing other than to stop > > being > > > > > > murdered > > > > > > > > and screwed with by the United States are more of a > > danger > > > to > > > > > > > > Americans, than the drug war right here in America > which > > > has > > > > > cost > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > lives each year than all Muslim terrorist acts ever > > > committed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have never refuted, as far as I have read, that the > > > > > > Islamofascists > > > > > > > state they want to establish a worldwide caliphate and > rule > > > by > > > > > > sharia. > > > > > > > Do you have some psychic ability to determine they don't > > mean > > > > what > > > > > > > they say? > > > > > > > What about India? There have been more Hindus killed by > > > > > > authoritarians using Islam as their pretext than there have > > > been > > > > > > other denominations and nationalities. You canstantly > repeat > > > > that > > > > > > Muslim extremism is all the fault of the US, but > > Islamofascists > > > > > hate > > > > > > and kill everyone of all faiths wherever they have > determined > > > the > > > > > > infidel must die. How is this the fault of the US? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
