or the Articles Of Confederation. There were also property owners and
not all of them consented to be under the authority of the
constitution. It is necessary to show true consent, to prove true
consent beyond a reasonable doubt.--- In
[email protected], "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I never spoke about imaginary lines. I spoke about real, tangible
> lines, that limit the powers of various legitimate governments. The
> people of America (whether you were one of the original signers of
the
> Constitution or any of the millions who were born into it) granted
> legitiamate power to the government to regulate the goods that enter
> this country.
>
> To determine whether any law is legitimate all one must do is ask
what
> would happen if you didn't have a government. If there were a
> community of people who each owned land and these people agreed to
> protect each other from violence, attacks, etc., they could also
agree
> that nobody from outside thier community would be allowed to sell
> goods within the community they own, without paying a fee to the
town
> to cover the cost of having police, judges, lawyers, etc. to ensure
> that the business they conduct isn't fraudulent, theft, etc.
>
> Since the people who own property in the town can do this, it is
> logical that the people of the whole country can do it too. And
when
> this country was created and the foundation of our laws was made
(all
> people born after this and who live within America are also bound to
> it) through a Constitution, they granted power to the government to
> collect such a fee. Nobody has a right to bring goods from outside
> the community to sell them just because they happen to own the goods
> they bought. In fact even if they own a home in the community, the
> agreed upon laws state that if THE GOODS come from out of town, the
> fee must be paid. No amount of ranting or shouting on the part of a
> person trying to bring goods from out of town into town to sell
grant
> him the right to do it. He is held to the laws of the town, even if
> he bought property in the town after the laws were made.
>
> The same is true of the Constitution. Whether you agree with it or
> not, you are held to it. If you don't like it, change it or get the
> hell out. Those are your only choices. Too bad if you don't like
it.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Thomas L. Knapp"
> <thomaslknapp@> wrote:
> >
> > Quoth Paul Ireland:
> >
> > > I have said many times. It's not force if you CHOOSE it. The
state
> > > absolutely has the legitimate authority to charge for the
PRIVILEGE of
> > > bringing goods across national borders.
> > >
> > > If the state charges a tariff for the PRIVILEGE of bringing
goods
> > > across the borders, especially a fair and flat very low
percentage
> > > tariff that can't be considered "protectionist" by any sane
person,
> > > those wishing to bring goods know about the tariff before they
CHOOSE
> > > to import the goods. If they CHOOSE to do so anyway, they are
> > > CHOOSING to pay the tariff. If they try to bring goods across
without
> > > paying the tariff, they are committing an act of
aggression...namely
> > > trespass and theft.
> >
> > Nice argument -- except you've never given any good reason why
> > bringing goods across imaginary lines drawn by the strongest gang
of
> > thugs in an area for the purpose of extorting a protection fee is
a
> > "privilege." You're not even consistent, as you don't ascribe the
same
> > magical powers to these imaginary lines when it is people, rather
than
> > goods, crossing them.
> >
> > Tom Knapp
> >
>
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