you get a cat to let itself be enslaved by you??? :)
-TLP
--- In [email protected], "Thomas L. Knapp"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> > But the "Fetus Fairy" sounds less like a pro-choice argument and
> > more like pro-life name-calling. If that's your example of a
> > religious argument of pro-choice, then whatever I call someone
> > makes them so. That's got to be some kind of logical fallacy, but
> > I don't know the name. The claim that there's no reason that
> > parturition should impart personhood is a creation of the
> > pro-life camp, as is the strawman conclusion "therefore they must
> > believe in a fetus fairy". It's simply a variation of this: "Herb
> > is crazy. Why is Herb crazy? Because anyone who believes in
> > evolution MUST be crazy."
>
> Okay, first of all, I didn't say that there's no reason that
> parturition should impart personhood. What I said was _the case
hasn't
> been made that it does_.
>
> If you want to go where no pro-choice advocate has gone before and
> offer actual evidence that it does, feel free. In the absence of
such
> evidence, I have no more obligation to assume it than I have to
assume
> the existence of a deity, the guilt of a defendant in a criminal
case,
> or anything else. If you think that parturition is the point of
> personhood, it is YOU who assumes the burden of proof -- just as the
> burden of proof falls on the pro-lifer if he names some other point
> such as conception.
>
> > There are plenty of huge transformations that take place during
> > parturition to explain initiation into personhood.
>
> Then explain them already.
>
> > Pro-life: "What's so special about parturition that it imparts
> > personhood?"
> > Pro-choice: "Gosh, I don't know...maybe it's the many major
> > biological changes that take place: loss of mothers nutrient
> > supply through umbilical cord; first breath of air in lungs;
> > first sound through vocal chords; first meal through alimentary
> > tract; first defecation & urination; first fart; first burp;
> > first vomit; first sight(?); organs and systems start to function
> > fully/independently; desires and objections obviously start to
> > function fully/independently; I could go on."
>
> You have GOT to be fucking kidding. Name a single one of those
things
> that doesn't occur in EVERY mammal at or shortly after parturition.
> Are all mammals "persons?"
>
> > Apparently the pro-lifers have convinced pro-choicers that these
> > mean nothing and something more has to be demonstrated.
>
> Eating, burping, farting, shitting, pissing, pukking, breathing,
> making noises, seeing, and having preferences and objections have
> never before, to my knowledge, been cited as the criteria of
> personhood. I guess I'm going to have to compensate my cat for its
> life of slavery.
>
> > It's
> > funny that most of the time the pro-lifers call parturition "the
> > miracle of birth", but when it comes to abortion, they drop the
> > religious reference, do a 180 and ask what's so special about
> > birth and accuse pro-choicers of believing in the Fetus Fairy.
>
> I don't cut the pro-lifers any slack on the "God puts the soul there
> at conception" bullshit, and I'm not going to cut the pro-choicers
any
> slack for similar bullshit. It's just that simple.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Knapp
>
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