Exactly Terry. That is what I like about this list and why I've been here since August of 1999 (even before your days!). And that is why I stayed, even after many other outlets have crumbled away or been hijacked by neo-libertarians, Republicans, or cliquish kids who don't know jack shit about libertarianism and aren't really interested in learning (see some of the MySpace libertarian forums for glaring examples). Hell, there are only about half a dozen of the 740ish members who've been here longer, so I feel comfortable saying that this list is not a "campaigning only" outlet and I don't recall that as having ever been the format.
I like the mix here of political advocates (me) and political campaigners (Chuck and Eric); libertarians and Libertarians; anarcho-capitalists and disgruntled Republicrats and Demopublicans. There is more than one way to work for liberty. I spend more of my time working to oppose the boot-lickers on the PATRIOT Act, REAL ID, domestic surveillance, financial privacy invasions, and other liberty related issues. That work comes in the form of lawsuit participation, legislative advocacy campaigns, coalition activities such as letters, press conferences, press releases, lobbying efforts, commentaries, phone calls, etc. There is far more to libertarianism than the Libertarian Party and electioneering. And no, that isn't a slam on campaigning, it is recognition that it is ONE part of a much larger movement. I prefer to know WHY I'm fighting before I start kicking someone's ass. Winning isn't enough. I need to win with my integrity intact. I refuse to become a Republican or a Democrat in order to be popular and considered "safe." I guess that makes folks like me "talkers" in the REAL LIBERTARIANS ARE ONLY INVOLVED IN CAMPAIGNING clique. So be it. __________________________________________________________________ James Landrith [EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 703-593-2065 * fax: 760-875-8547 AIM: jlnales * ICQ: 148600159 MSN and Yahoo! Messenger: jlandrith Taking the Gloves Off - http://www.jameslandrith.com The Multiracial Activist - http://www.multiracial.com The Abolitionist Examiner - http://www.multiracial.com/abolitionist/ __________________________________________________________________ >> SaidChuck: >> There are 740 members on this list. How many of them have donated >> money to libertarian campaigns? How many have volunteered time? If >> that number is more than 25, I'd be astounded. > > TerryResponds: > > Chuck, this IS a 'disscussion' forum in which there is participation > by ANYONE who wants to express views PRO/CON about libertarianism. > > People do also make contact here that results in action. > > SOME of that is oriented to the Libertarian Party. > > *IF* you want help, from thoughtful people, for your 'perspectives' > on promoting liberty & justice for all, it would be a good 'idea' to > make your advocacy appealing to your audience > > *IF* you just want to carp (express) about people not marching in > lockstep to some pre-determined ACTION plan, you're welcome to do > that here too :) > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > --- In [email protected], "Chuck Moulton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > We need both thinkers and doers. Principle without action, and >> > action without principle, are both dead ends. >> >> Perhaps. But I see a whole lot of talkers and very few doers. >> Talking in circles without any action is a collosal waste of time. >> We're topped off on principle... it's time to act. >> >> Eric is a doer. He travels around the country helping on campaigns >> and encourages others to get off their asses to volunteer and donate >> along with him. I don't agree with Eric on some philosophical > things >> (like the Iraq war, George W Bush, etc.), but I have a lot of > respect >> for him and we agree on libertarian issues a lot more than we > disagree. >> >> There are 740 members on this list. How many of them have donated >> money to libertarian campaigns? How many have volunteered time? If >> that number is more than 25, I'd be astounded. >> >> My LNC colleague and friend Hardy solicited this list for help > getting >> Libertarians elected to the state legislature in Vermont. It's not > a >> pipe dream... it's realistically achievable with only a few thousand >> dollars. How many people donated? >> >> http://www.vtlp.org/news/blog02.asp?ProdCode=351142992006 >> >> I asked this group to volunteer 10 minutes each to help me organize >> college groups all over the country through Facebook. Want to know >> how many of you volunteered? Zero. >> >> http://www.facebooklibertarians.org/ >> >> LP headquarters has been soliciting volunteers for months to make >> phone calls to voters through the ballot base software. How many of >> you helped? >> >> http://www.ballotbase.org/ >> >> Talking accomplishes nothing without action. I know all of you want >> to be the talkers hoping someone else will take the action. Well, > it >> doesn't work. YOU need to take the action. >> >> Every minute you spend debating philosophy here is a minute you're > not >> spending helping Libertarians get elected and a minute you're not >> spending moving public policy in a libertarian direction. >> >> Eric got the quote wrong. What I actually said was: >> "I'd rather have 1 Eric Dondero out walking polls for libertarian >> candidates and petitioning for libertarian initiatives than 1,000 > Paul >> Irelands arguing about who is the purest libertarian." >> >> And I stand by that statement. >> >> Everyone has either time or money they can donate to the libertarian >> movement. Some people have both. I respect that not everyone can >> donate money, but it saddens me to see people argue because it > clearly >> demonstrates they have time they could be donating but prefer to > squander. >> >> Please keep in mind the following libertarian mantra (10 words, 2 >> letters each): >> If it is to be, it is up to me. >> >> Chuck Moulton >> Vice-Chair, Libertarian National Committee >> > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! 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