On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Johannes Rudolph < [email protected]> wrote:
> > Hello David, > > thanks for your thorough and comprehensive answer. I think I can now > better understand the decisions you made for the project. In my eyes > the fact alone that a conscious decision was made on this difficult > topic is one that deserves credit. > > Still, it feels unfortunate that legal issues get in the way of free > collaboration so easily and that enthusiasm about a piece of software > (and I still think Lift kicks ass in many respects) cannot directly > flow into a stream of positive output in terms of code -- but that > belongs to a greater debate. > > Nevertheless, thanks for all the work of the lift team! > If you've got material contributions for Lift, please demonstrate what you've got in terms of working code and willingness to help newbies on the this list. I'm happy to add folks who can build working code and help others to the team of Lift committers. Some of the committers have made very few commits (e.g., Greg Meredith) but lend a ton of value in their insights. Other folks commit as much or more code than I do (e.g., Marius and Derek). So there's a broad spectrum of who has the commit bit and it's not an exclusive club, but rather a group of folks who can roll up their sleeves and represent the values of this community. > > Johannes > > On Sep 4, 3:01 pm, David Pollak <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 2:35 AM, Johannes Rudolph < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Just to let you know: This policy (and the form it is stated) seems > > > overly strict to me when we are talking about small fixes/typos and > > > instantly discourages me from sending in any more of them (i.e. > > > perhaps I will do it anyway but with a bad feeling). > > > > Most open source software is polluted with code from who knows where. > This > > is problematic from a protection of rights standpoint and from an end > user > > standpoint. > > > > From the protection of rights, if there's no single copyright holder > where > > all contributors have signed a legal agreement assigning their rights to > > that copyright holder, there is no single entity that can assert the > license > > as against an infringer (note that in the case of the Apache license, > > there's very few rights that can be asserted because the license grant > can > > only be revoked if a licensor files a patent infringement case against > the > > licensee.) However, it's still important that there be an entity that > can > > assert the rights in the software. If there are 50 different authors of > the > > software, all 50 authors would have to join together (each with separate > > lawyers) to assert rights in the software. That's untenable. > > > > The second reason is for the end users. You as an end user of Lift know > > that the IP is clean (well, at least if you trust that I've been adhering > to > > the policies that I say I'm following, but for anyone who really cares, I > > can produce every single Lift IP assignment and we can trace through > every > > commit and verify that each commit was made by someone who has assigned > > rights to Lift's copyright holder.) This means that if you deploy a > > Lift-based application, you have very little risk of legal action from a > > third party asserting copyright violations. > > > > The second point is very important. I know of at least one GC (head > lawyer) > > of a company we've all heard of that reviews every single license > agreement > > of every piece of software used at the company. For open source, she > makes > > sure that the open source provider is following good practices because > her > > company has billions of dollars of sales each year and would be a huge > pot > > of gold for someone with a copyright claim. Her comments about Lift's > > license and the way I manage the IP was very encouraging... she viewed > > Lift's IP cleanliness as top tier for any software she's ever reviewed. > > That means that developers from her company can use Lift without her > > getting involved anymore. > > > > So, the issue boils down to you posting something that's work that you > could > > assert a copyright claim in. > > > > Submitting a change of a single letter, a type-o, is not something that > you > > could assert a copyright claim in. I made the change that you suggested. > > > > Submitting a one or two line bug fix is also something that's unlikely to > be > > copyrightable work (although I tend to be the judge of that and > discourage > > other Lift committers from making the call.) If I determine the bug fix > is > > not copyrightable, I'll roll it into Lift. > > > > Submitting a new feature with code is likely to be copyrightable. What > we > > do in that situation is look at the interface and implement the interface > > our own way. > > > > So, I'm sorry you think the policy is harsh and discourages community > > participation. I developed the policy to protect users of Lift and make > > sure that they can build Lift-based applications without worry. I wanted > to > > be sure that Lift users never have to worry about the issues that SCO > > brought to every Linux users' doorstep a few years back. And make no > > mistake, we are at the beginning, not the end, of figuring out the real > open > > source legal landscape. > > > > Thanks, > > > > David > > > > > > > > > I know and understand: It is your project and in the first place the > > > committers owe nothing to Us, The Users. I can understand (and do > > > value) the overall decision to let the concensus of committers drive > > > the development instead of the quickest patch sent to the ML. > > > > > Still, for small contributions this policy looks for me like a lost > > > opportunity to let the broader community polish up little things noone > > > else noticed yet. > > > > > Actually, I just started using lift and I really liked what I've seen > > > so far. The question is if I'll still actively and openly try to fix > > > things which occur to me (as a beginner) or if I fix things quitely > > > and stay a passive user. > > > > > Or am I completely mistaken and misunderstood the policy? > > > > > Johannes > > > > -- > > Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net > > Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 > > Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp > > Git some:http://github.com/dpp > > > > -- Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp Git some: http://github.com/dpp --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lift" group. 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