+1

2009/9/30 Derek Chen-Becker <dchenbec...@gmail.com>

> I would vote for naming the new module lift-common and renaming lift-util
> to lift-webutil. It does mean some breakage but I think that it's a clearer
> naming. lift-util and lift-common are just too close for someone coming in
> new, IMHO.
>
> Derek
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:34 AM, Jonas Bonér <jbo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> 2009/9/30 Josh Suereth <joshua.suer...@gmail.com>:
>> > As much as I agree with your decision, it just makes me sad.   I know
>> lots
>> > of people that learned scala for "actors are the way of the future"....
>> I
>> > think we need to push harder.  Hopefully all major projects migrating
>> off
>> > actors will give EPFL a wake up call?
>>
>> This is the reason I created Akka, to have a standard platform for
>> Actors with all the things one need to write production applications.
>> Akka already have 4 committers and honestly, looking at the pace EPFL
>> has had with bugfixing, features etc I think they will have a very
>> hard time keep up with what the market needs. I have unfortunately
>> given up up the Scala Actors library. I need the things Akka
>> implements now and don't have time to wait indefinitely.
>>
>> >
>> > - Josh
>> >
>> > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:41 PM, David Pollak
>> > <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:35 AM, Stuart Roebuck <
>> stuart.roeb...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Apologies if I've missed something obvious but my web search hasn't
>> >>> turned anything up...
>> >>>
>> >>> What are the Scala Actors instability issues? I'm in the process of
>> >>> doing some major Scala development work and this comment raises
>> >>> concerns that I'd like to understand.
>> >>
>> >> The issues (with the Scala Actors in general and Lift's use of them)
>> are:
>> >>
>> >> Scala Actors use a custom version of Doug Leah's Fork/Join library.
>>  This
>> >> was necessary for JDK 1.4 support.  With JDK 1.5, the
>> java.util.concurrent
>> >> stuff should have been used.  I was led to understand that this change
>> was
>> >> made in Scala 2.7.5, but it was not and even the Scala 2.8 stuff still
>> >> contains fork-join.  The FJ library has a memory retention issue where
>> it
>> >> trades memory for non-locking performance and, with many threads in a
>> >> thread-pool, this leads to out of memory issues.
>> >> The Scala Actor code is very brittle.
>> >>  See
>> http://erikengbrecht.blogspot.com/2009/01/refactoring-scala-actors.html
>> >>  The code has not been materially refactored, which means that even in
>> 2.8,
>> >> there will be significant potential problems with the Actors.  Those
>> >> potential problems have manifest themselves as real problems in 2.7.x.
>>  I
>> >> have spent in aggregate nearly 3 weeks of my time since November 2008
>> >> working around the defects in the Actor library.  It's easier to have
>> our
>> >> own Actors (the current Actor library is about 2 days of work on my
>> part and
>> >> the refactoring of Lift to work with the existing Actor library is
>> another 2
>> >> days of work.)
>> >> EPFL has been generally slow to respond to bug reports.  I am very
>> >> frustrated and quite frankly tired of having to cajole EPFL into
>> responding
>> >> to defects in one of the premier Scala libraries.
>> >>
>> >> I would strongly suggest that you look at Akka.  It's got a better view
>> >> and implementation of Actors than does the standard Scala distribution.
>> Akka
>> >> includes support for distributed actors, etc.
>> >> Hope this helps.
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Best,
>> >>>
>> >>> Stuart
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sep 29, 3:30 am, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> > Folks,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Given the continued instability of Scala Actors, I've decided to
>> remove
>> >>> > them
>> >>> > from Lift.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Specifically, I'm migrating CometActors to sit on top of Lift's
>> Actors.
>> >>> > But, you'll also be able to use Akka Actors to power Lift's
>> >>> > CometActors.
>> >>> > Specifically, I'm working with Jonas to make sure that we share a
>> >>> > common
>> >>> > interface to Actors.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I've gotten Lift nearly completely migrated over to Lift's Actors on
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > dpp_wip_actorize branch.
>> >>> >  Seehttp://github.com/dpp/liftweb/tree/dpp_wip_actorize
>> >>> >
>> >>> > There will be some breaking changes to your applications.
>> >>> >  Specifically:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >    - Box will be moved to a new package, net.liftweb.base (this is
>> >>> > where the
>> >>> >    interface for Actors will live as well)
>> >>> >    - If you make any assumptions about your CometActors being Scala
>> >>> > Actors
>> >>> >    (e.g., using linking), you will have to rewrite this code
>> >>> >    - Some methods in Lift that currently take Scala Actors as
>> >>> > parameters
>> >>> >    will take Lift Actors (e.g., ActorPing)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > There will be a parallel Maven repository with the new Lift Actor
>> stuff
>> >>> > in
>> >>> > it so you will be able to build you apps against the new code before
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > official switch-over.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Milestone 6 (which should be out next week) will be based on the
>> >>> > existing
>> >>> > Actor model.  After we get feedback from the community about the new
>> >>> > Actor
>> >>> > stuff, we will switch -SNAPSHOT over to the new Actor stuff.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Questions, thoughts, or comments?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Thanks,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > David
>> >>> >
>> >>> > --
>> >>> > Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
>> >>> > Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
>> >>> > Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
>> >>> > Surf the harmonics
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
>> >> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
>> >> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
>> >> Surf the harmonics
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonas Bonér
>>
>> twitter: @jboner
>> blog:    http://jonasboner.com
>> work:   http://crisp.se
>> work:   http://scalablesolutions.se
>> code:   http://github.com/jboner
>> code:   http://akkasource.org
>>
>>
>>
>
> >
>


-- 
Heiko Seeberger

My job: weiglewilczek.com
My blog: heikoseeberger.name
Follow me: twitter.com/hseeberger
OSGi on Scala: scalamodules.org
Lift, the simply functional web framework: liftweb.net

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