Andy - as you highlighted, the November vote is around allocating $325K for professional services for the two existing proposals. The study would give us additional information on the **cost** side. Based on the recent LT posts on the topic, I think there's eagerness to understand the **benefit** side for the community. In the absence of that, interpretations range from "It's a lavish COA" to "It's an indoor swimming pool" and a few others in between as commenters struggle with the vision.
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:18 PM Andy Wang <[email protected]> wrote: > Seth, > > Just to be fair in the comparison, according to the presentation in the > Spring (reference here > <http://lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/72451/Community-Center-2022-Town-Meeting-Article-12>), > the cost of renovation of the 3 pods from the CCPPDC report was originally > estimated at $3-3.9 Million. Updated in 2021 to $3.8 - $5.3M and projected > to 2025 Projected Construction Mid-Point at $4.5-6.1 M. Which is more like > 20-26% on the low end. > > Also, several people have made this sound like it's just for CoA. As > proposed, this is supposed to be a 'Community Center' not just a 'Senior > Center'. So while you might consider the discussion of PRD with this as a > conflation, others may not. It may be an opportunity to use what I think > are two under-utilized resources (the pods and Bemis) into one with more > use. At the same time, co-mingling diverse generational residents has > shown to have a positive effect on all involved. There may be other > intangible benefits for a Community Center, you can't look at everything > from a financial side only (though, you can't ignore it either). > > In terms of renovation, I think Bemis and Pierce House, while lovely, are > not ideal sites for either the CoA or a Community Center due to access, > parking, physical layout of the spaces. Pierce House is historic and I > doubt a large renovation would fly there. Bemis lacks parking and it > doesn't appear like there is much room for expansion. The pods really do > need a renovation, if you've been in them, that should be pretty obvious. > > I did go to a bunch of the Community Center discussions years ago and put > my little blue dot on choices, but those were all about features and things > you would love to have in a building. There is a financial reality that > wasn't really discussed at the time (to my recollection, and at least not > concretely). So, in general, I am in support of a combined community > center to house CoA and PNR on the school campus, but at the current scale, > I'm undecided. > > I'll air my issue with where we are in the movie though. The vote at the > end of Nov to allocate $325k for professional services is really looking to > provide detailed breakdown of two very similar proposals. The 'Infill of > Pods' and the "Secondary Central Green' are estimated at $23-$24M and $24.3 > - $25.4M (2025 Midpoint Construction #'s) respectively. I'm sure lots of > folks may prefer one or the other for a variety of design reasons, but from > a financial standpoint, they are about the same cost. Both are lovely > buildings, but my concern is that neither may pass the larger town vote. I > would have rather seen two separate proposals for a community center, one > at the $12M range and one at the $24M range. Actual cost just as an > example. > > It's clear the next steps that happen if the vote passes. What happens if > the vote fails to pass? Does that remove the possibility of having a > community center or does that just put things back to the committee to come > back again? From my perspective, I'd much prefer a community center on a > smaller scale, but also, I'd rather have one at the current proposal and be > forced to pay, than not have one. I'm just not sure which way to vote in > that case. > > Andy > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 11:47 AM Seth Rosen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Since some posters have mentioned it, we thought it would be helpful to >> zero into how the Pods factor into the Community Center project and what we >> think is the most rational path for the activities there. >> >> Neither of the existing currently proposed designs contemplates a new >> home for LEAP, although I do agree with Diana that there are definitely >> capital needs there. >> >> There are three pods. In both designs POD B would be LIGHTLY renovated >> and stay as a standalone facility to host LEAP. In one of the designs the >> two other pods would be torn down and in the other design they would be >> incorporated into the Community Center. >> >> The cost of renovating the LEAP pod was estimated at $1.125MM in 2018, >> using the same cost inflator used for the overall project, the updated cost >> would be approximately $1.6MM, which corresponds to 6% of the total >> Community Center project cost. >> >> We argue that the town has other public space to host the activities >> hosted in the Pods today, if at some point in the future they are not >> deemed further usable. LEAP as well as all of the after-hours Parks and Rec >> school-age-activities, which represent the vast majority of the program's >> indoor offerings, could easily be hosted in what is otherwise a brand-new >> empty school. There is already a precedent of a Parks & Recreation >> activity, namely IMLEM, using the school, specifically the 8th grade hub, >> to conduct its activities. We are sure other adult activities could also >> find accomodation. Adult basketball for example is already hosted at Reed >> Gym. >> >> As it relates to Parks and Rec Department (PRD), there is no urgency in >> finding the Department a new home. Once that happens, as anyone who has >> stepped foot into that office can attest, they only need a small fraction >> of their current space to house three employees. We are certain either the >> school or the 15,000 sqft Town offices could find space for them. >> >> Let us not conflate a discussion about the future of PRD and LEAP, which >> can be easily fixed at no incremental or a small cost, with a $25MM project >> with no other apparent incremental goal other than hosting COA. >> >> On Oct 26, 2022, at 9:15 AM, DJCP <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> My kids go to LEAP, the after school program, and we frequently use the >> Pods for community events and rec dept programs and generally hanging >> around after school and the Pods are in tough shape. Much like the school >> building was before the renovation. I am sensitive to costs, but >> significant overhaul of the Pods is needed in the imminent future. Costs >> are only going to go up if we put the project off. And I like the idea of >> rolling the senior center into the school campus as it would be nice to >> have the communities intersect more. (The Girl Scouts in particular >> already do service projects for the COA&HS and it would be great to expand >> that.) Again, I am sensitive to cost, not just for me but the community, >> but I hope everyone can keep an open mind. >> >> Diana >> Giles Rd >> >> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 8:27 AM Louis Zipes <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Maybe I missed it and I could be very wrong it but I think part of this >>> project also takes into account the Hartwell Pods/Bemis Hall and the cost >>> to sustain those/replace them going forward. That might or might not factor >>> into the overall cost and design we are seeing. >>> >>> There have been community center meetings so I think I personally need >>> to go back and watch them to be better educated. >>> >>> https://www.lincolntown.org/1019/Community-Center-FAQs >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> What about the cost for ages 65 to 79? >>>> >>>> I do think low cost *access* to indoor year-round swimming is >>>> important for our older population. >>>> >>>> Many might find $199 a year to be a lot. >>>> >>>> If there is some kind of access to certain facilities at Hanscom for >>>> seniors that would be very good information to have. Hanscom has fantastic >>>> health & fitness facilities. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >>>> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:55 AM, Maureen At Beede < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Lots of Lincoln seniors use beede center in concord. Full access for >>>> $199/year if over 80. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 7:52 AM Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Just out of curiosity, I wonder if our Lincoln seniors could ever be >>>> granted *certain* access to any of the phenomenal health and fitness >>>> facilities at Hanscom? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >>>> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:41 AM, Elaine Hawkes < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thank you Seth and others for bringing up the community center. It’s >>>> something I have been discussing with other youngish seniors (LSRHS class >>>> of 1971)and have a number of concerns. Although I don’t yet use the senior >>>> senior, and do think one with an elevator is important, I’m not sure how >>>> many older adults in town use it regularly. In my cohort, there is a >>>> greater worry about high property taxes and whether we can afford to >>>> continue to pay them if a community center is built. >>>> >>>> “If you build it they will come” ( >>>> https://www.lincolntown.org/documentcenter/view/35385) Is this true, >>>> particularly with ongoing concerns about covid and availability of >>>> classes and meetings on Zoom? >>>> >>>> There are few offerings for adults through the Rec Department. Is that >>>> from lack of space or lack of interest? Most people I know go out of town >>>> for programs. >>>> >>>> I’m not happy with the design which appears to have a lot of wasted >>>> space in its “open concept”. With heating prices going up, how much will it >>>> cost to heat this big building? >>>> >>>> I also think the world has changed since 2017 when this community >>>> center was first discussed. I would rather the town spend its money on >>>> mixed income housing, for example, which it needs. And, Lincoln’s older >>>> homebound adults could stay in their homes if they had more services paid >>>> for by the town. This would be a good use of money for seniors. >>>> >>>> Lastly, if an expensive community center must be built, can we at the >>>> same time look at allowing more Lincoln homes to build accessory apartments >>>> and backyard cottages? This would help seniors pay their higher taxes, and >>>> stay in their large homes while benefiting non-high income folks looking >>>> for Lincoln housing. >>>> >>>> Elaine >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>> Browse the archives at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >> Browse the archives at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >> Browse the archives at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >> -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > >
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