I'd just like to mention that Lincoln's property tax rate is not out of keeping with our neighbors and has even come down over the past two years:
2019 1.403% 2020 1.536% 2021 1.552% 2022 1.493% 2023 1.392% Yes, some towns have lower rates (Weston 2022 1.281%, Lexington 2022 1.380%), but others have higher rates (Carlisle is down to 1.65% in 2022 from 1.836% in 2020, Acton is down to 1.945% in 2022 from 2.023% in 2021). If our tax rate were to increase by 9% (in 2024?) from 1.392%, then it would be back up to 1.52%. Just wanted to put some numbers out there. Not taking a position regarding the CC. On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 7:31 PM Lynne Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > Can someone estimate the cost of a full time driver (9-5) and an all- > electric car or shuttle bus? eg., Salary plus benefits: $100k; ev shuttle: > $100k. So $200K total? Or we could use Uber vouchers as some senior living > facilities do. > > Just another way of solving parking and driving problems. > > Lynne Smith > 5 Tabor Hill Road > Lincoln, MA 01773 > 781-258-1175 > Sent from my iPhone > > On 26 Oct 2022, at 7:02 p.m., Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Well said! > > And for significantly less money we can invest in a contract for a shuttle > bus to provide transportation to all of these locations:) > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> > > On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 6:53 PM, Karla Gravis < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks everyone for the thoughtful discussion. > > Andy, I think Seth's post is only talking about the cost of renovating > *one* pod, the pod allocated to LEAP in the new CC designs. There is > simply no need to renovate all three pods. Right now they are in fact > underutilized. My understanding is that they are used for the following > activities: > > 1. LEAP. > 2. Summer Camp. > 3. Parks and Rec activities taking place after school (the vast > majority). > 4. A few Parks and Rec activities happening during school hours. > 5. As and office for all three (3) PRD employees. > > #1,2 and 3 could be hosted in the school as they do not overlap with > school hours. It would be duplicative to renovate the Pods when we have a > perfectly fine school right next to it. #5 requires very little space and > could be done either at the school or Town Offices, which only leaves #4 > uncovered. An entire pod is probably much more space than we actually need > for #4, so the $1.6MM figure is probably an overstatement. > > I still have not heard any CC proponent respond to Joanna and Yonca's > eloquent pleas. What will it accomplish that cannot be done with the > existing resources? > > As the initial post explained, towns our size simply do not build > Community Centers. There are many ways to foster intergenerational > commingling, which to be clear is a worthwhile goal, but building very > expensive empty rooms is not one of them. Intergenerational commingling > happens when there is a common purpose that brings everyone together, not > as a result of a new building. We already have facilities where those > activities can be done if people are willing to organize them. If people > want to host a book club, they can use the library with the help of our > amazing librarians, if they want to play sports, they can use Reed Gym, if > they want to put on a play or have a town debate they can use the Donaldson > Auditorium. > > Our town already has the most onerous property taxes in the region. > Elevated property taxes are causing financial hardship, which is why the > town approved the senior circuit breaker. Let us try to keep that in mind > when we are talking about a project that would increase property taxes > thousands of dollars a year. > > > From: *Andy Wang* <[email protected]> > Date: Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] community center > To: Seth Rosen <[email protected]> > Cc: Lincoln Talk <[email protected]> > > > Seth, > > Just to be fair in the comparison, according to the presentation in the > Spring (reference here > <http://lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/72451/Community-Center-2022-Town-Meeting-Article-12>), > the cost of renovation of the 3 pods from the CCPPDC report was originally > estimated at $3-3.9 Million. Updated in 2021 to $3.8 - $5.3M and projected > to 2025 Projected Construction Mid-Point at $4.5-6.1 M. Which is more like > 20-26% on the low end. > > Also, several people have made this sound like it's just for CoA. As > proposed, this is supposed to be a 'Community Center' not just a 'Senior > Center'. So while you might consider the discussion of PRD with this as a > conflation, others may not. It may be an opportunity to use what I think > are two under-utilized resources (the pods and Bemis) into one with more > use. At the same time, co-mingling diverse generational residents has > shown to have a positive effect on all involved. There may be other > intangible benefits for a Community Center, you can't look at everything > from a financial side only (though, you can't ignore it either). > > In terms of renovation, I think Bemis and Pierce House, while lovely, are > not ideal sites for either the CoA or a Community Center due to access, > parking, physical layout of the spaces. Pierce House is historic and I > doubt a large renovation would fly there. Bemis lacks parking and it > doesn't appear like there is much room for expansion. The pods really do > need a renovation, if you've been in them, that should be pretty obvious. > > I did go to a bunch of the Community Center discussions years ago and put > my little blue dot on choices, but those were all about features and things > you would love to have in a building. There is a financial reality that > wasn't really discussed at the time (to my recollection, and at least not > concretely). So, in general, I am in support of a combined community > center to house CoA and PNR on the school campus, but at the current scale, > I'm undecided. > > I'll air my issue with where we are in the movie though. The vote at the > end of Nov to allocate $325k for professional services is really looking to > provide detailed breakdown of two very similar proposals. The 'Infill of > Pods' and the "Secondary Central Green' are estimated at $23-$24M and $24.3 > - $25.4M (2025 Midpoint Construction #'s) respectively. I'm sure lots of > folks may prefer one or the other for a variety of design reasons, but from > a financial standpoint, they are about the same cost. Both are lovely > buildings, but my concern is that neither may pass the larger town vote. I > would have rather seen two separate proposals for a community center, one > at the $12M range and one at the $24M range. Actual cost just as an > example. > > It's clear the next steps that happen if the vote passes. What happens if > the vote fails to pass? Does that remove the possibility of having a > community center or does that just put things back to the committee to come > back again? From my perspective, I'd much prefer a community center on a > smaller scale, but also, I'd rather have one at the current proposal and be > forced to pay, than not have one. I'm just not sure which way to vote in > that case. > > Andy > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 11:47 AM Seth Rosen <[email protected]> wrote: > > Since some posters have mentioned it, we thought it would be helpful to > zero into how the Pods factor into the Community Center project and what we > think is the most rational path for the activities there. > > Neither of the existing currently proposed designs contemplates a new home > for LEAP, although I do agree with Diana that there are definitely capital > needs there. > > There are three pods. In both designs POD B would be LIGHTLY renovated and > stay as a standalone facility to host LEAP. In one of the designs the two > other pods would be torn down and in the other design they would be > incorporated into the Community Center. > > The cost of renovating the LEAP pod was estimated at $1.125MM in 2018, > using the same cost inflator used for the overall project, the updated cost > would be approximately $1.6MM, which corresponds to 6% of the total > Community Center project cost. > > We argue that the town has other public space to host the activities > hosted in the Pods today, if at some point in the future they are not > deemed further usable. LEAP as well as all of the after-hours Parks and Rec > school-age-activities, which represent the vast majority of the program's > indoor offerings, could easily be hosted in what is otherwise a brand-new > empty school. There is already a precedent of a Parks & Recreation > activity, namely IMLEM, using the school, specifically the 8th grade hub, > to conduct its activities. We are sure other adult activities could also > find accomodation. Adult basketball for example is already hosted at Reed > Gym. > > As it relates to Parks and Rec Department (PRD), there is no urgency in > finding the Department a new home. Once that happens, as anyone who has > stepped foot into that office can attest, they only need a small fraction > of their current space to house three employees. We are certain either the > school or the 15,000 sqft Town offices could find space for them. > > Let us not conflate a discussion about the future of PRD and LEAP, which > can be easily fixed at no incremental or a small cost, with a $25MM project > with no other apparent incremental goal other than hosting COA. > > On Oct 26, 2022, at 9:15 AM, DJCP <[email protected]> wrote: > > > My kids go to LEAP, the after school program, and we frequently use the > Pods for community events and rec dept programs and generally hanging > around after school and the Pods are in tough shape. Much like the school > building was before the renovation. I am sensitive to costs, but > significant overhaul of the Pods is needed in the imminent future. Costs > are only going to go up if we put the project off. And I like the idea of > rolling the senior center into the school campus as it would be nice to > have the communities intersect more. (The Girl Scouts in particular > already do service projects for the COA&HS and it would be great to expand > that.) Again, I am sensitive to cost, not just for me but the community, > but I hope everyone can keep an open mind. > > Diana > Giles Rd > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 8:27 AM Louis Zipes <[email protected]> wrote: > > Maybe I missed it and I could be very wrong it but I think part of this > project also takes into account the Hartwell Pods/Bemis Hall and the cost > to sustain those/replace them going forward. That might or might not factor > into the overall cost and design we are seeing. > > There have been community center meetings so I think I personally need to > go back and watch them to be better educated. > > https://www.lincolntown.org/1019/Community-Center-FAQs > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln < > [email protected]> wrote: > > What about the cost for ages 65 to 79? > > I do think low cost *access* to indoor year-round swimming is important > for our older population. > > Many might find $199 a year to be a lot. > > If there is some kind of access to certain facilities at Hanscom for > seniors that would be very good information to have. Hanscom has fantastic > health & fitness facilities. > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> > > On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:55 AM, Maureen At Beede < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Lots of Lincoln seniors use beede center in concord. Full access for > $199/year if over 80. > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 7:52 AM Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, I wonder if our Lincoln seniors could ever be > granted *certain* access to any of the phenomenal health and fitness > facilities at Hanscom? > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> > > > On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:41 AM, Elaine Hawkes < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Thank you Seth and others for bringing up the community center. It’s > something I have been discussing with other youngish seniors (LSRHS class > of 1971)and have a number of concerns. Although I don’t yet use the senior > senior, and do think one with an elevator is important, I’m not sure how > many older adults in town use it regularly. In my cohort, there is a > greater worry about high property taxes and whether we can afford to > continue to pay them if a community center is built. > > “If you build it they will come” ( > https://www.lincolntown.org/documentcenter/view/35385) Is this true, > particularly with ongoing concerns about covid and availability of > classes and meetings on Zoom? > > There are few offerings for adults through the Rec Department. Is that > from lack of space or lack of interest? Most people I know go out of town > for programs. > > I’m not happy with the design which appears to have a lot of wasted space > in its “open concept”. With heating prices going up, how much will it cost > to heat this big building? > > I also think the world has changed since 2017 when this community center > was first discussed. I would rather the town spend its money on mixed > income housing, for example, which it needs. And, Lincoln’s older homebound > adults could stay in their homes if they had more services paid for by the > town. This would be a good use of money for seniors. > > Lastly, if an expensive community center must be built, can we at the same > time look at allowing more Lincoln homes to build accessory apartments and > backyard cottages? This would help seniors pay their higher taxes, and stay > in their large homes while benefiting non-high income folks looking for > Lincoln housing. > > Elaine > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > >
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