Good morning,
Just a couple of thoughts.
1. While the tax rates listed in an earlier post may sound reassuring, they
should not.
* Property taxes are calculated by multiplying your city's tax rate by
the assessed value of your property and all the structures on it. In
Massachusetts, tax rates are expressed as the number of dollars per thousand
dollars of assessed value. Property taxes are calculated by multiplying your
city's tax rate by the assessed value of your property and all the structures
on it. In Massachusetts, tax rates are expressed as the number of dollars per
thousand dollars of assessed value.
* This means that even if the tax rate decreases, as your property
valuation increases, your tax bill in terms of real dollars will be higher.
* To this is added the school funding bond payment.
2. How many seniors are there in Lincoln?
a. Perhaps this could be stratified by 5-year age groups.
b. How many are NOT living in senior or assisted living where
transportation is provided.
Best,
Jeanine Carlson
________________________________
From: Lincoln <[email protected]> on behalf of Sasha Golden
<[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 9:18 AM
To: Joanna Owen Schmergel <[email protected]>
Cc: Lincoln Talk <[email protected]>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [LincolnTalk] community center
EXTERNAL MESSAGE - TREAT LINKS/FILES WITH CARE
School buses pick up children with mobility issues at their homes. Roughly 40%
of all persons over 65 have a mobility impairment. This number increases with
age. Now, just think of an elder who needs a walker going 1/4 mile to a shuttle
stop -- not going to happen.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/two-questions-can-reveal-mobility-problems-in-seniors-201309186682<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/two-questions-can-reveal-mobility-problems-in-seniors-201309186682__;!!CYGGtyGZyw!AorL7KiwjIrH8EYy3_rxVIqY4F6RmHIueEEHmPDde-T_34zCHhf48peQejX9aiJiG0IkhMYHT6Jc0bRarN6qQkSzbXhhGw$>
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022, 7:54 AM Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Not go to each individual household- shuttle stops similar to school bus stops
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On Thursday, October 27, 2022, 2:36 AM, Sara Mattes
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Can we first understand the needs of seniors.
What activities exist, what can/should be added?
I would urge all to spend at least 1/2 day at Bemis to better understand what
is currently going on.
Activities and appointments are happening there the entire day that the front
door is open.
Look at the COA newsletter.
It appears in EVERY Lincoln mailbox, monthly.
Many of these ideas are very interesting and deserve further exploration.
I am not sure that we can have a private tai service/shuttle bus to go to each
individual household that needs transport.
But, maybe that’s feasible.
But, before we explore further, , let us understand what are our needs and
where do places exist that might serve them.
Sara Mattes
71 Conant
(Per Lynne Smith’s request that we attach name and address to each post)
------
Sara Mattes
On Oct 26, 2022, at 7:49 PM, Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
$200k sounds roughly accurate.
I personally like the idea of a town shuttle that would perhaps make the
“rounds” 3-4 times a day on a schedule to Donelean’s, Bemis, Town Hall, the
School/pods, the library, etc…
Then activities for seniors would start being planned around the shuttle
schedule..
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On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:30 PM, Lynne Smith
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Can someone estimate the cost of a full time driver (9-5) and an all- electric
car or shuttle bus? eg., Salary plus benefits: $100k; ev shuttle: $100k. So
$200K total? Or we could use Uber vouchers as some senior living facilities do.
Just another way of solving parking and driving problems.
Lynne Smith
5 Tabor Hill Road
Lincoln, MA 01773
781-258-1175
Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Oct 2022, at 7:02 p.m., Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Well said!
And for significantly less money we can invest in a contract for a shuttle bus
to provide transportation to all of these locations:)
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On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 6:53 PM, Karla Gravis
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Thanks everyone for the thoughtful discussion.
Andy, I think Seth's post is only talking about the cost of renovating one pod,
the pod allocated to LEAP in the new CC designs. There is simply no need to
renovate all three pods. Right now they are in fact underutilized. My
understanding is that they are used for the following activities:
1. LEAP.
2. Summer Camp.
3. Parks and Rec activities taking place after school (the vast majority).
4. A few Parks and Rec activities happening during school hours.
5. As and office for all three (3) PRD employees.
#1,2 and 3 could be hosted in the school as they do not overlap with school
hours. It would be duplicative to renovate the Pods when we have a perfectly
fine school right next to it. #5 requires very little space and could be done
either at the school or Town Offices, which only leaves #4 uncovered. An entire
pod is probably much more space than we actually need for #4, so the $1.6MM
figure is probably an overstatement.
I still have not heard any CC proponent respond to Joanna and Yonca's eloquent
pleas. What will it accomplish that cannot be done with the existing resources?
As the initial post explained, towns our size simply do not build Community
Centers. There are many ways to foster intergenerational commingling, which to
be clear is a worthwhile goal, but building very expensive empty rooms is not
one of them. Intergenerational commingling happens when there is a common
purpose that brings everyone together, not as a result of a new building. We
already have facilities where those activities can be done if people are
willing to organize them. If people want to host a book club, they can use the
library with the help of our amazing librarians, if they want to play sports,
they can use Reed Gym, if they want to put on a play or have a town debate they
can use the Donaldson Auditorium.
Our town already has the most onerous property taxes in the region. Elevated
property taxes are causing financial hardship, which is why the town approved
the senior circuit breaker. Let us try to keep that in mind when we are talking
about a project that would increase property taxes thousands of dollars a year.
From: Andy Wang <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date: Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] community center
To: Seth Rosen <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Lincoln Talk <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Seth,
Just to be fair in the comparison, according to the presentation in the Spring
(reference
here<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/72451/Community-Center-2022-Town-Meeting-Article-12__;!!CYGGtyGZyw!AorL7KiwjIrH8EYy3_rxVIqY4F6RmHIueEEHmPDde-T_34zCHhf48peQejX9aiJiG0IkhMYHT6Jc0bRarN6qQkRfIH_OGg$>),
the cost of renovation of the 3 pods from the CCPPDC report was originally
estimated at $3-3.9 Million. Updated in 2021 to $3.8 - $5.3M and projected to
2025 Projected Construction Mid-Point at $4.5-6.1 M. Which is more like 20-26%
on the low end.
Also, several people have made this sound like it's just for CoA. As proposed,
this is supposed to be a 'Community Center' not just a 'Senior Center'. So
while you might consider the discussion of PRD with this as a conflation,
others may not. It may be an opportunity to use what I think are two
under-utilized resources (the pods and Bemis) into one with more use. At the
same time, co-mingling diverse generational residents has shown to have a
positive effect on all involved. There may be other intangible benefits for a
Community Center, you can't look at everything from a financial side only
(though, you can't ignore it either).
In terms of renovation, I think Bemis and Pierce House, while lovely, are not
ideal sites for either the CoA or a Community Center due to access, parking,
physical layout of the spaces. Pierce House is historic and I doubt a large
renovation would fly there. Bemis lacks parking and it doesn't appear like
there is much room for expansion. The pods really do need a renovation, if
you've been in them, that should be pretty obvious.
I did go to a bunch of the Community Center discussions years ago and put my
little blue dot on choices, but those were all about features and things you
would love to have in a building. There is a financial reality that wasn't
really discussed at the time (to my recollection, and at least not concretely).
So, in general, I am in support of a combined community center to house CoA
and PNR on the school campus, but at the current scale, I'm undecided.
I'll air my issue with where we are in the movie though. The vote at the end
of Nov to allocate $325k for professional services is really looking to provide
detailed breakdown of two very similar proposals. The 'Infill of Pods' and the
"Secondary Central Green' are estimated at $23-$24M and $24.3 - $25.4M (2025
Midpoint Construction #'s) respectively. I'm sure lots of folks may prefer one
or the other for a variety of design reasons, but from a financial standpoint,
they are about the same cost. Both are lovely buildings, but my concern is
that neither may pass the larger town vote. I would have rather seen two
separate proposals for a community center, one at the $12M range and one at the
$24M range. Actual cost just as an example.
It's clear the next steps that happen if the vote passes. What happens if the
vote fails to pass? Does that remove the possibility of having a community
center or does that just put things back to the committee to come back again?
From my perspective, I'd much prefer a community center on a smaller scale, but
also, I'd rather have one at the current proposal and be forced to pay, than
not have one. I'm just not sure which way to vote in that case.
Andy
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 11:47 AM Seth Rosen
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Since some posters have mentioned it, we thought it would be helpful to zero
into how the Pods factor into the Community Center project and what we think is
the most rational path for the activities there.
Neither of the existing currently proposed designs contemplates a new home for
LEAP, although I do agree with Diana that there are definitely capital needs
there.
There are three pods. In both designs POD B would be LIGHTLY renovated and stay
as a standalone facility to host LEAP. In one of the designs the two other pods
would be torn down and in the other design they would be incorporated into the
Community Center.
The cost of renovating the LEAP pod was estimated at $1.125MM in 2018, using
the same cost inflator used for the overall project, the updated cost would be
approximately $1.6MM, which corresponds to 6% of the total Community Center
project cost.
We argue that the town has other public space to host the activities hosted in
the Pods today, if at some point in the future they are not deemed further
usable. LEAP as well as all of the after-hours Parks and Rec
school-age-activities, which represent the vast majority of the program's
indoor offerings, could easily be hosted in what is otherwise a brand-new empty
school. There is already a precedent of a Parks & Recreation activity, namely
IMLEM, using the school, specifically the 8th grade hub, to conduct its
activities. We are sure other adult activities could also find accomodation.
Adult basketball for example is already hosted at Reed Gym.
As it relates to Parks and Rec Department (PRD), there is no urgency in finding
the Department a new home. Once that happens, as anyone who has stepped foot
into that office can attest, they only need a small fraction of their current
space to house three employees. We are certain either the school or the 15,000
sqft Town offices could find space for them.
Let us not conflate a discussion about the future of PRD and LEAP, which can be
easily fixed at no incremental or a small cost, with a $25MM project with no
other apparent incremental goal other than hosting COA.
On Oct 26, 2022, at 9:15 AM, DJCP
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
My kids go to LEAP, the after school program, and we frequently use the Pods
for community events and rec dept programs and generally hanging around after
school and the Pods are in tough shape. Much like the school building was
before the renovation. I am sensitive to costs, but significant overhaul of
the Pods is needed in the imminent future. Costs are only going to go up if we
put the project off. And I like the idea of rolling the senior center into the
school campus as it would be nice to have the communities intersect more. (The
Girl Scouts in particular already do service projects for the COA&HS and it
would be great to expand that.) Again, I am sensitive to cost, not just for me
but the community, but I hope everyone can keep an open mind.
Diana
Giles Rd
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 8:27 AM Louis Zipes
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Maybe I missed it and I could be very wrong it but I think part of this project
also takes into account the Hartwell Pods/Bemis Hall and the cost to sustain
those/replace them going forward. That might or might not factor into the
overall cost and design we are seeing.
There have been community center meetings so I think I personally need to go
back and watch them to be better educated.
https://www.lincolntown.org/1019/Community-Center-FAQs<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.lincolntown.org/1019/Community-Center-FAQs__;!!CYGGtyGZyw!AorL7KiwjIrH8EYy3_rxVIqY4F6RmHIueEEHmPDde-T_34zCHhf48peQejX9aiJiG0IkhMYHT6Jc0bRarN6qQkSy2tgFWA$>
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
What about the cost for ages 65 to 79?
I do think low cost access to indoor year-round swimming is important for our
older population.
Many might find $199 a year to be a lot.
If there is some kind of access to certain facilities at Hanscom for seniors
that would be very good information to have. Hanscom has fantastic health &
fitness facilities.
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On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:55 AM, Maureen At Beede
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Lots of Lincoln seniors use beede center in concord. Full access for $199/year
if over 80.
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 7:52 AM Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Just out of curiosity, I wonder if our Lincoln seniors could ever be granted
certain access to any of the phenomenal health and fitness facilities at
Hanscom?
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On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:41 AM, Elaine Hawkes
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Thank you Seth and others for bringing up the community center. It’s something
I have been discussing with other youngish seniors (LSRHS class of 1971)and
have a number of concerns. Although I don’t yet use the senior senior, and do
think one with an elevator is important, I’m not sure how many older adults in
town use it regularly. In my cohort, there is a greater worry about high
property taxes and whether we can afford to continue to pay them if a community
center is built.
“If you build it they will come”
(https://www.lincolntown.org/documentcenter/view/35385<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.lincolntown.org/documentcenter/view/35385__;!!CYGGtyGZyw!AorL7KiwjIrH8EYy3_rxVIqY4F6RmHIueEEHmPDde-T_34zCHhf48peQejX9aiJiG0IkhMYHT6Jc0bRarN6qQkSFY02Scg$>)
Is this true, particularly with ongoing concerns about covid and availability
of classes and meetings on Zoom?
There are few offerings for adults through the Rec Department. Is that from
lack of space or lack of interest? Most people I know go out of town for
programs.
I’m not happy with the design which appears to have a lot of wasted space in
its “open concept”. With heating prices going up, how much will it cost to heat
this big building?
I also think the world has changed since 2017 when this community center was
first discussed. I would rather the town spend its money on mixed income
housing, for example, which it needs. And, Lincoln’s older homebound adults
could stay in their homes if they had more services paid for by the town. This
would be a good use of money for seniors.
Lastly, if an expensive community center must be built, can we at the same time
look at allowing more Lincoln homes to build accessory apartments and backyard
cottages? This would help seniors pay their higher taxes, and stay in their
large homes while benefiting non-high income folks looking for Lincoln housing.
Elaine
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