David, Well, the school committee may not be able to respond directly, but I wanted to put forward some thoughts:
On the two issues you mentioned, did you get an active response that they are not interested in your issue or just that you haven't gotten a response yet about the OPEB or retirement contributions. Is your issue critical right now? I'm only asking because I know the school committee also has several other issues on their plate, like the superintendent search and the teacher's contract (and probably other things as well) and it sounds like your questions would require some deeper digging. If it was the session from last week I was watching, then not really that much time has passed and I don't think they are obligated to respond right away. I'm sure your analysis took some time to put together, maybe they need the same to validate your finding and dig into an answer. I believe the public comment section is not intended to be a Q&A on any random topic. I believe this is by design. I'm only pointing that out because in my travels (way too far down the rabbit hole) looking at Open Meeting Law stuff, I also discovered that people file complaints REALLY frequently in some towns when topics are discussed that are not sent out in the published agenda. I think the idea is that if it was not in the notice, then people who are interested would not know to tune in, and therefore would miss the discussion. Unfortunately, I think this would also apply to your suggestion of just an open forum discussion, but I don't really know all the in's and out's of the requirements though. As a side note, if you're corresponding to the school committee and the administration over email like you mention, I think you also have an Open Meeting Law issue there. I'm not sure how many you are trying to engage at once, but you can't have discussions outside of a public forum. --- *May a public body member communicate with other public body members over email?* Yes, but only in limited circumstances. A member of a public body may email other public body members on matters within jurisdiction of a public body so long as the email does not reach a quorum of the public body. Communications between and among a quorum of a public body on matters within the jurisdiction of the public body must occur during a noticed meeting. G.L. c. 30A, §§ 18, 20. A public body member may lawfully email a quorum of the public body only to discuss scheduling a meeting, distribute a meeting agenda, or to distribute reports or documents to be discussed at a meeting, provided that no opinion of a member of the public body is expressed. See G.L. c. 30A, § 18. -- The idea of a memo addressing concerns I think is possible, but I'm going to predict that will also kick off a slew of additional comments / questions, and they still can't engage with a back and forth, so I think that will leave you unsatisfied in the end. It's an interesting thought, but I think John's memo earlier kicked off more discussions than it put to rest. But your question is valid on how do issues get addressed and how does the public engage with the constraints that the school committee has on them. I think it falls back that this is an elected body and the town selects candidates that they think represent their views or have a platform of communication to push issues for them. I know it's kind of a terrible answer, but sometimes that's how it works in representative government. Just some comments for consideration. Thanks for listening. - Andy On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 8:51 PM David Cuetos <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Andy, > > I would say the School Committee is falling short of informing and > engaging school parents and the wider resident community. I am going to > suggest two complementary schemes that would go a long way to correct this > deficit without violating Open Meeting Laws. > > There is nothing preventing the School Committee from sending out *a memo > that addresses in depth all the issues raised in the LincolnTalk discussion > and explains their choices with a proper cost reward analysis.* The Community > Center Building Committee did something similar when they started to get > push back from this forum. It would be very helpful for the community to > get more transparency in the decision making process for these > important school policy choices. I have watched the School Committee > meetings in which the budget was discussed. Unfortunately, there was no > substantive debate on any of these important decisions during those > meetings. All of these choices were taken for granted. > > Right now, there is no forum where town residents can debate with the > School Committee and the School Administration on matters of import. I > realize there is a public comment section at the beginning of most School > Committee meetings, but it isn't a two-way communication format. Residents > have three minutes to talk, everybody is silent and at the end of the > intervention nobody opines and nothing is heard about the issue ever again. > To give you an example, Peter Buchthal and I are concerned about the > *Hanscom's** school's OPEB liability*. For those not in the know, the > town has accrued an approximately $5M retirement liability with Hanscom's > employees. If we are not able to renew the contract with the DoD after 2025 > in terms that are favorable to Lincoln, my understanding is that we are on > the hook for that $5M. That liability figure is very sensitive to different > assumptions like future returns or salary growth for existing and future > employees, meaning the actual number could be much larger (or smaller). > Right now we are only funding that liability $200k per year on average. > Peter's question to the School Committee and the Administration during > Public Comment was simple: given how rich the current contract with the DoD > is and how little visibility we have about its renewal, why aren't we > funding that liability much more aggressively while we can? No response was > provided during that meeting and no follow-up has occurred since. I can > give you another example, I am trying to understand *why Lincoln pays $1M > in employment retirement contributions while Hanscom only pays $160k > despite its 15% larger staff*. The Administration (both the town's and > the school's) have gone silent on the matter, and the School Committee, > which is copied in my correspondence with the School Administration, has > declined to participate*.* > > *My suggestion for the School Committee is to make themselves available to > the overall community in a proper open forum where all issues concerning > our school can be debated.* Again, this would not be unprecedented. The > CCBC conducted a similar exercise ahead of the Special Town Meeting. > > I want to thank everyone who has participated in this thread for taking > time out of their busy lives to engage in a civic public debate. > > Best, > > David Cuetos > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 6:32 PM Andy Wang <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Peter (and anyone else following along), >> >> I just wanted to point out that I'm not sure you are going to get a >> direct response from John, or anyone on the School Committee, via this >> forum (Lincoln Talk) due to Open Meeting Laws on >> electronic communications. Lincoln Talk is a listserv. >> >> Source: >> https://www.mass.gov/info-details/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-open-meeting-law#frequently-asked-questions-about-the-open-meeting-law:-deliberation-and-electronic-communication >> --- >> *May members of a public body participate in a listserv?* >> It depends. A listserv is an electronic mailing list. A member of a >> public body may subscribe to a listserv. However, where a quorum of the >> members of a public body subscribe to a listserv, the public body risks >> unlawful deliberation. Where a quorum of the members of a public body >> belong to a listserv, public body members cannot participate in discussions >> which involve subject matter within the jurisdiction of the public body >> without engaging in unlawful deliberation. Therefore, we recommend that >> public body members use caution when joining or participating in listservs >> in which subject matters within the jurisdiction of their public body may >> be discussed. >> --- >> >> So while we (the public) can discuss topics, I'm not sure they can engage >> in this forum without running afoul of Open Meeting Laws if a certain >> number of them (quorum) are even just subscribed cause that would count as >> deliberation. I think that means they can post informational items, but not >> engage in ongoing discussions. I think that full engagement with the >> committee needs to take place during posted meetings. But that's just my >> read. >> >> That makes it a little tricky for candidates to discuss, especially since >> Adam is a current member of the committee and also a candidate. I have no >> idea how something like that is handled. I just thought I'd point it out if >> you were thinking of having an open public discussion here that engages the >> school committee on here. I've always wondered why committees don't chime >> in on LT, but the Open Meeting Laws might be preventing that. >> >> I just thought I'd call that out in case people are wondering why the >> committee hasn't chimed in directly. >> >> - Andy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 9:18 PM Andy Wang <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Peter, >>> >>> I was just keying off of something you said "The recently approved FY24 >>> Budget contradicts the chart as it funds 4 classroom teachers per each 6, 7 >>> and 8 grade. " What are you keying off of in the budget? How are you >>> counting teachers where there are ones that teach sections across grades >>> and specialists? I was just pointing out that while there were 4 >>> homeroom teachers in 6th, but there are only 3 sections for the kids. >>> Those teachers don't 'just have homeroom duties', like my kid's homeroom >>> teacher is also his ELA teacher. >>> >>> Parents can certainly voice concerns. Gifted children want extra >>> attention, and parents of gifted kids advocate for that. Struggling >>> students want extra attention, and those parents advocate for them. It IS >>> complicated in the sense that you need to optimize across a wide range of >>> students and abilities, and philosophical stance on what it means to be a >>> student at Lincoln Public Schools and there are trades that need to be >>> made. I mean, do you KNOW that the administration hasn't looked at ways of >>> optimizing things? >>> >>> When it comes down to it, I'm happy to wax philosophical on Lincoln Talk >>> all day long (clearly), but my parting point was just that the school >>> committee is elected and folks should be electing people who they think >>> represent their views. There are many ways to focus the school. We could >>> teach more to the MCAS and increase that ranking, we could make larger >>> classes, remove special programs, decrease special services, increase >>> gifted programs, decrease spending. All of those things come with >>> trade-offs and those decisions are not going to be made here. And only >>> foot stomping this stronger now cause deadline to pull papers is tomorrow. >>> >>> - Andy >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 8:53 PM Peter Buchthal <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Andy, >>>> >>>> I don't see your distinction between listed teachers who have >>>> classrooms for core subjects and other teachers who apparently just host >>>> homeroom students and have other classroom duties. Our school population >>>> has decreased by 20 % in the last 10 years and apparently the >>>> administration and school committee can't even consider *optimizing* the >>>> staff to offer additional academic services the students and parents want >>>> while lowering the ongoing costs of running the school. Every year, >>>> without much debate, the School Committee asks and gets the maximum 2.5% >>>> raise over the previous year and that is considered success even though our >>>> school population keeps going down. Our student teacher ratio is >>>> significantly lower than almost everyone (37% more teachers than the state >>>> average), Our MCAS scores are middle of the pack, our cost per student is >>>> 6K higher than almost every other school except for Weston and the School >>>> says basically, "we can't cut a thing, you don't understand, it's >>>> complicated." >>>> >>>> [image: Screenshot 2023-01-31 at 7.42.59 PM.png] >>>> ReplyForward >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 6:14 PM Andy Wang <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Peter, >>>>> >>>>> Not to jump in on a conversation between you and John, but since you >>>>> posted publicly, I figure it would be okay. >>>>> >>>>> I wanted to point out, that in the middle school, there is a >>>>> distinction between the listed teachers (from the enrollment report) and >>>>> sections that are on John's chart. I have a son who is in 6th grade (60 >>>>> in >>>>> his class). In the enrollment report you linked to (the 2022 Enrollment >>>>> Report), it indicates that there are 4 groups, what I'll call 'homerooms' >>>>> each led by a teacher (4 listed there). But when they go to class, he >>>>> says >>>>> they only have 3 sections, of about 20 in each section. This seems to >>>>> match the chart that John included in his email, which specifies sections. >>>>> I think in the middle school, the teacher ratio gets a little more >>>>> confusing since some subject teachers teach one grade, some multiple, and >>>>> also specialists (who could teach multiple grades) as opposed to in the >>>>> elementary school where the 'homeroom' teachers, for the most part, teach >>>>> all subjects to their class (but also some specials here too). While I >>>>> understand your argument, I don't think it's quite as simple as just >>>>> cutting a section. >>>>> >>>>> As a staffing side note, the town probably also doesn't want to get >>>>> into a situation where, say you decide to cut a section of a grade and >>>>> then >>>>> have a teacher who teaches across the middle school grades with a < 1 FTE >>>>> load. To which I think the natural tendency for those teachers would be to >>>>> go look for other employment when they can get a full time position. So >>>>> there is a balance there as well. Just some food for thought. >>>>> >>>>> To a large extent, while public Lincoln Talk discussions are >>>>> entertaining, real change happens in the committee, which is an elected >>>>> position. I'll go back to the statement that if folks are unhappy with the >>>>> direction of the school and want some impact, the more productive course >>>>> of >>>>> action is to run for a seat, state your opinions and views, and see if >>>>> there is a large enough group of folks who share that view. That's the >>>>> real mandate for change, otherwise, the committee really has no idea if >>>>> this is like 1/2 the town feels this way or it is just a select vocal >>>>> minority. >>>>> >>>>> - Andy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >> Browse the archives at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >> -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > >
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