Whether Israel's ongoing operations in Gaza constitute "genocide" admittedly is debatable; it's literally being debated in the International Court of Justice, in a case initially brought by South Africa. But asserting that label applies is not crazy - see the most commonly accepted definition of "genocide" and other info below from Wikipedia.
Even if that label doesn't apply, it seems clear, per Amnesty International and others, that Israel is continuing to commit war crimes, at a scale hugely greater than the war crimes committed by Hamas. >From Wikipedia: - Regarding the definition of genocide <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention>: "The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide ( CPPCG), or the Genocide Convention, is an international treaty <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Agreement> that criminalizes genocide <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide> and obligates state parties to pursue the enforcement of its prohibition. It was the first legal instrument to codify <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codification_(law)> genocide as a crime and the first human rights treaty <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_treaty_bodies> unanimously adopted by the United Nations General Assembly <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly> on 9 December 1948, during the third session of the United Nations General Assembly <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_session_of_the_United_Nations_General_Assembly> . .... The Genocide Convention was conceived largely in response to World War II <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II>, which saw atrocities <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_crimes#1939%E2%80%931945:_World_War_II> such as the Holocaust <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust> that lacked an adequate description or legal definition. .... The Convention defines genocide as any of five "*acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group.*" These five acts include killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly." - Regarding evidence that Israel's operations in Gaza constitute genocide <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa%27s_genocide_case_against_Israel> : "The *Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel)* is an ongoing case <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law> that was brought before the International Court of Justice <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice> on 29 December 2023 by South Africa <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa> regarding Israel <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel>'s conduct in the Gaza Strip <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip> during the Gaza war <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_war>, that resulted in a humanitarian crisis <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_humanitarian_crisis_(2023%E2%80%93present)> and mass killings. South Africa alleged that Israel had committed and was committing genocide <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide> against Palestinians <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_genocide_accusation> in the Gaza Strip, contravening the Genocide Convention <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention>.... .... In an effort to establish genocidal intent behind the actions, a very difficult task, South Africa cited statements by Israeli leaders, such as Prime Minister <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Israel> Benjamin Netanyahu <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Netanyahu>'s invocations to "Remember what Amalek <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek> has done to you," referencing the total destruction of Amalek by the Israelites in the Bible <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible>, President <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Israel> Isaac Herzog <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Herzog>'s statement "*It's an entire nation out there that is responsible*. *It's not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware not involved*. It's absolutely not true. ... and we will fight until we break their backbone," and Minister of Defense <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Defense_(Israel)> Yoav Gallant's 'situation update' advising Israel is "*imposing a complete siege on Gaza. No electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and are acting accordingly.*"[ <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa%27s_genocide_case_against_Israel#cite_note-ICJ_SA_proceedings_vs_IL_29Dec2023-4> and military officials and representatives, asserting that these "*indicate in and of themselves a clear intent to destroy Palestinians in Gaza as a group 'as such*'". The submission further asserts that these statements constitute direct and public <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incitement_to_genocide#%22Direct%22> incitement to genocide <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incitement_to_genocide> which has gone "unchecked and unpunished" and is instead being implemented; on this, the submission cites Israeli soldiers on the ground. In October 2024, the South African team submitted hundreds of pages of evidence which it stated proved Israel's intent to commit genocide. *[emphasis added]* .... In its Order of 26 January 2024, while not granting South Africa's request to order Israel to suspend its military operations in Gaza, the Court ordered Israel to take measures to prevent acts of genocide in the Gaza Strip, and to report to the Court regarding by 23 February 2024;[ <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa%27s_genocide_case_against_Israel#cite_note-theguardian20240120-91>to prevent and punish incitement to genocide; to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza; and generally, to take more measures to protect Palestinians. .... As ordered by the court, Israel on 26 February 2024, filed a report about measures taken to comply with the interim ruling, which was not released to the press or the public. Human Rights Watch said that Israel had not complied with at least one provisional measure, stating fewer humanitarian aid trucks entered Gaza after the ruling than in the weeks preceding it. Amnesty International similarly said Israel had not complied with the ICJ ruling to ensure sufficient aid to Palestinians in Gaza. The United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Special_Rapporteur_on_the_Right_to_Food>, Michael Fakhri, described what was occurring in Gaza as "*a situation of genocide"*. Oxfam <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxfam> stated, "The *risk of genocide* is increasing in northern Gaza because the Government of Israel is ignoring one of the key provisions of the International Court of Justice, to provide urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance". Doctors Without Borders <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors_Without_Borders> stated, "There are no signs of Israeli forces attempting to limit the loss of civilian life or alleviate the suffering of people." *[emphasis added]* .... On 5 April 2024, the court set the schedule for comprehensive submissions of legal opinions by South Africa and Israel. The time limit for the South African memorial <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_(law)> was set to be 28 October 2024, and for the Israeli response 28 July 2025. South Africa filed its memorial on 28 October 2024.In accordance with the ICJ's rules, the memorial is not public. It contains over 750 pages of text and over 4,000 pages of exhibits and annexes. On 14 April 2025, the ICJ extended the deadline for Israel's response to 12 January 2026." On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 1:49 PM Seth Rosen <[email protected]> wrote: > Paul, if you believe “genocide” is what’s being perpetrated by Israel, > there is nothing anyone can say to change your mind. > > Seth > > On May 23, 2025, at 1:47 PM, Paul Shorb <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Seth - > I can agree to all of that you said and still ask: What about the > genocide that is being conducted right now, by Israel, with resources > provided by the United States? > - Paul Shorb > > On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 1:38 PM Seth Rosen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I find it very frustrating when folks make these suggestions. It sounds >> so easy - just negotiate! As if no one in Israel has ever thought of that, >> or tried it. Here’s the thing I’m not sure you’re picking up… Israel’s >> enemies don’t want to negotiate. That is not the stated goal. They are not >> “seeking a compromise” >> >> They want Israel gone, and they want the Jews in it gone. The reason I >> can state this so unequivocally is because they have stated it >> unequivocally. >> >> I would be very interested to understand how you propose to negotiate >> given that starting position. I negotiate all day long for a living and I >> don’t have any good ideas. >> >> October 7th did not happen because of Israel’s negligence. It happened >> because a terrorist group dedicated to Israel’s destruction sent an army of >> evil into Israel to rape women, kill babies, shoot innocent civilians, and >> kidnap the ones they didn’t kill. Israeli intelligence was absolutely >> negligent in not being more vigilant, but that’s not the reason. >> >> If you want peace, it’s easy. If they put down their weapons, there will >> be a Palestinian state. If the Israelis put down their weapons there will >> be another holocaust. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On May 23, 2025, at 1:22 PM, Bijoy Misra <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Not sit back idle, but negotiate. >> Killing a hundred people through overhead bombing does not show any >> humanity! >> As I have come to know Oct 7 happened through Israel's negligence. >> You don't take revenge by starving innocent children. >> It is overwhelming to see these difficult pictures and then bomb overhead. >> We are several hundred years behind now! >> >> On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 1:08 PM Rick Sale <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Agreed and well put! >>> >>> Now if we can get the people, like those who initiated October 7 and >>> those who initiated 911 and those who call for the destruction of Israel >>> and wiping them off the face of the map every day, to STOP that and their >>> horrifically destructive ideology, maybe we would get somewhere? What do >>> you think? >>> >>> Or should Israel just sit idly by and let Hamas, Iran, and all their >>> neighbors just wipe them off the face of the map? Perhaps they’re just >>> joking around? >>> >>> Unless and until that rhetoric and attempts at annihilation an entire >>> people dissipates….. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 12:55 PM Bijoy Misra <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I don't have a stake in this. But seeing a hundred people being >>>> killed every day by overhead >>>> bombing does bother me. I would appreciate it if the activists have a >>>> voice against it. These >>>> hundreds of bombed people and starving children are as innocent as the >>>> couple in DC. >>>> Let all human beings be treated equally. >>>> Bijoy Misra >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 10:28 AM Seth Rosen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jonathan Sheffi has already offered a thoughtful and fact-based >>>>> admonishment of the GRALTA content. He offered exhaustive commentary on >>>>> the specific claims made in the content and on the website, with specific >>>>> references. He is not simply claiming it’s antisemitic content, he is >>>>> explaining precisely why it is antisemitic. He has proposed a counter >>>>> narrative supported by the evidence. It happens to also be a powerful one, >>>>> because it’s true. >>>>> >>>>> If you take issue with his assertions about the nature and character >>>>> of the content, why not actually respond to the facts? Instead of the ad >>>>> hominem attacks. Which facts have been misrepresented? >>>>> >>>>> With two Jews gunned down in the streets by a guy shouting “free >>>>> Palestine” one of your Jewish neighbors is still writing to a public email >>>>> list with thousands of members to stand with integrity against the >>>>> proliferation of antisemitic propaganda. And I stand with him. >>>>> >>>>> Seth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 23, 2025, at 9:50 AM, Sara Mattes <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Freedom of speech allows for inaccurate statements, >>>>> misrepresentations of facts and replacing facts with opinions and then >>>>> others echoing them as facts. >>>>> Unfortunately, this is happening here, again. >>>>> >>>>> GRALATA Foundation has been clear and consistent about its mission, >>>>> readily available on its website, in its programs and literature. >>>>> >>>>> For straightforward reporting of facts, you might consider a >>>>> subscription to *Haaretz*, a great Israeli newspaper. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 22, 2025, at 3:52 PM, Rick Sale <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Spot on and thank you for stating this Seth. >>>>> >>>>> …… >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, May 22, 2025 at 3:26 PM Seth Rosen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Joan, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jonathan Sheffi has already pointed out, in great detail and rather >>>>>> articulately, exactly why the propaganda films being screened in Lincoln >>>>>> by >>>>>> Gralta are anti-Semitic. >>>>>> >>>>>> He has also made the point on numerous occasions that perpetuating >>>>>> these false narratives really does have real world consequences. It is >>>>>> not >>>>>> innocuous as some have suggested. And two Israeli kids murdered by a >>>>>> “free >>>>>> Palestine activist” are an unfortunate affirmation of his point. >>>>>> >>>>>> While you and your cohort are free to attend the screenings, he too >>>>>> should be free to criticize them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Seth >>>>>> >>>>>> > On May 22, 2025, at 12:18 PM, Joan Kimball <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > It is both untrue and offensive to link this effort to antisemitism. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> Rick >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>> Rick >>> >> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >> Browse the archives at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >>
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