Linux-Advocacy Digest #641, Volume #28 Sat, 26 Aug 00 02:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Fragmentation of Linux Community? Yeah, right! (Tim Hanson)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers (Tim Hanson)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: The Failure of the USS Yorktown (Tim Hanson)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows (Ian Pulsford)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows (Ian Pulsford)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) (Courageous)
Re: GUI vs Command Line: The useless war (Ian Pulsford)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Fragmentation of Linux Community? Yeah, right!
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 04:50:37 GMT
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Truckasaurus
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:59:26 GMT
> <8o2rlp$2t2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >In article <8njlh8$7mp$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stephen S. Edwards II) wrote:
> >
> >> All hardware sucks. All software sucks. Anyone who
> >> states otherwise for anything has blinders on.
> >
> >No.
>
> I would submit that the original comment above (with your very
> concise rebuttal being a nice touch :-) ) is far too vague to
> effectively answer. What does it mean that "hardware sucks"?
> Some hardware is *supposed* to suck (vacuum cleaners :-) ). [*]
>
> I'm not sure if the same can be said about software, admittedly,
> though tools such as FTP suck down data from websites.
> Of course, this is probably the wrong meaning of "to suck".
I think it might be a sexual reference. I could certainly use the
little day brightener, but I've carefully looked around my whole
computer and for the life of me don't know where to insert... oh, never
mind.
> I for one am curious as to the relative I/O throughput
> and MIPS/MFLOPS of comparatively priced Intel PC-AT+ and, say,
> Sparc boxes (the throughput of a system can be increased
> greatly by using high-speed SCSI as opposed to, say, a schlocky
> second-hand IDE interface; some care may be needed here).
>
> And then there are the operating systems; thankfully, we have
> at least six that can run on identical hardware (NT/Win2k, Win9x/WinMe,
> Linux, FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD, QNX, and Solaris x86). One could in
> theory do comparative performance benchmaks on disk I/O, network traffic,
> and even CPU speed -- presumably, a page fault request, even an
> "inexpensive" one that merely requires a zeroed region of memory,
> would have different response times, depending on OS. [@]
> Graphics benchmarks are trickier, since Windows and Linux use different
> graphics systems (Linux actually supports three graphics systems:
> X, framebuffer [+], and vgalib -- and X is highly dependent on
> how the server is written; Windows supports two (one deprecated):
> Win16 and Win32).
>
> (Beware of tricks such as installing Linux on
> the higher (inners) cylinders of a drive, slowing it down.
> Ideally, one would have six identical machines, six identical
> drives, and two individuals, one who installs the software on
> each machine, and one who plays "button, button, who's got the
> button?", moving the drives around in a random order *after* install
> so that the first individual conceptually won't know which machine
> gets which OS after installation -- since they're identically
> configured hardware wise, it shouldn't matter all that much.
> It's also not clear that they should perform their benchmarks
> at the same time if they're all on the same subnet.)
>
> [.sigsnip]
>
> [*] To be extremely pedantic about it, the hardware doesn't suck,
> the surrounding air pressure blows.
>
> [@] In the case of the SETI home client, there's an additional issue;
> the Linux version doesn't update the screen periodically for
> eye candy, whereas the Windows version does, presumably
> slowing it down.
>
> [+] Dunno if framebuffer is supported yet on x86/Vga hardware.
> I've seen this on e.g. Amigas (linux-m68k).
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random OS benchmark here
--
"Life to you is a bold and dashing responsibility"
-- a Mary Chung's fortune cookie
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:56:12 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Eric Bennett in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, ZnU
[...]
>I consider Social Security to be fundamentally broken. Look at what it
>was originally supposed to do... provide for a few years of
>retirement...
I strongly disagree. Social Security was not originally supposed to be
a retirement plan. It was intended to be security for society; a right
to expect that some would not starve while other's remained wealthy.
>and look at what it's being asked to do today with an
>increasing aging population and significantly longer lifespans. Social
>Security should be largely terminated. I would support some sort of
>program to protect people on fixed incomes from runaway inflation during
>hard times, but not what we have now.
Social Security was "re-invented" sometime in the last four decades as a
government-mandated retirement plan. It was never designed, however, to
be an investment in *capital*; it's an investment in *society*. It will
be 'fixed' as soon as everyone is willing to recognize that they are not
"due back" one single penny of what has been collected from them. Only
then can we get rid of it, and replace it (and welfare) with a more sane
approach.
[...]
>Maybe you should throw your support behind Nader instead of Gore.
The more obvious it becomes that Gore will win (instead of Bush; I don't
have anything against him in particular, except that he is a
Republican), the more likely it is that I will, indeed, vote for Nader.
[...]
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
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------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 05:00:12 GMT
Craig Kelley wrote:
>
> On 5 Jun 2000 14:06:17 -0500, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> > W2K is perfectly stabile. It even bloes NT4 out of teh watter.
>
> That's funny, I have heard the exact same thing about NT4 in the
> past. (ie, "NT4 is perfectly stabile[sic], it even bloes[sic] NT35
> out of teh[sic] watter[sic].")
>
> I suppose Windows 2003 will be even *more* stable than Windows 2000,
> eh? :)
>
> --
> The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
> Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
Notice the tough benchmarks used in their comparisons: "Our most stable
operating system yet," and "Far more stable than any previous version."
A low bar indeed.
--
"Life to you is a bold and dashing responsibility"
-- a Mary Chung's fortune cookie
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:01:30 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said ZnU in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>If social security dries up, people who've been paying into it for years
>aren't going to get anything out of it. Even if you want to end social
>security, it's obvious you can't do it like that.
Actually, that is the only way you can do it. How else can you *end*
Social Security? (Not to be confused with 'social security'.)
Social Security will be unnecessary once social security can be ensured.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:02:18 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Eric Bennett in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>I don't expect to ever get a dime of my payments into the fund back.
That's two.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:05:07 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Joe Ragosta in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
>> Joe Ragosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
>> Doesn't that 5% also control more than 90% of the wealth?
>
>
>Probably.
>
>But the point is that even with the Bush tax cuts, they're still paying
>a vastly higher percentage of their income in taxes than the poor or
>middle class.
The point is that they should, and they aren't even paying anywhere near
as much as their tax bracket base percentage indicates, while the middle
and lower income people generally do.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Failure of the USS Yorktown
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 05:08:58 GMT
Steve Mading wrote:
>
>
> The reason the P-47 still did okay was sheer brute force. It could
> take a real beating, and it had big guns. It didn't *have* to
> dogfight very long. In one pass it could take out just about
> anything.
Wasn't there a variation of the P-47 used all the way into Vietnam for
pilot rescue?
--
"Life to you is a bold and dashing responsibility"
-- a Mary Chung's fortune cookie
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:12:41 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Gregory L. Hansen in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Joe Ragosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
>At any rate, once people start making more than about ten times what I've
>ever made, it's hard for me to feel sympathetic about their tax burden.
Last year, I managed by happenstance to make ten times more than I ever
made before (theoretically, alas). I had to pay the 'capital gains' tax
that all these rich guys are always crying about. I looked at what I
made (I call it happenstance, but it was actually my life's work) and at
what I'd have to pay in taxes, and I couldn't for the life of me figure
out what those guys are whining about.
Even now, that all the additional gains that didn't go to pay off the
debt (capital) are gone, and I'm left with less in assets than I have
set aside for next year's check to the government for the capital gains,
I have a smile on my face thinking about giving that money to The
People, for providing me a nation in which a man can earn an honest
profit. The scowl returns, of course, when I think about the political
campaigns in relation to the realities facing the country, and how both
candidates are pandering to the public. I wouldn't trust either of them
as President, but we have to trust one of them.
So it might not be a resounding endorsement, but I'm sure not voting for
the Republican.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:15:38 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Joe Ragosta in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>Even if I get what I've been promised, my lifetime return on investment
>will probably be negative or in the very low single digits. If I had
>been able to invest my Social Security "contribution" in any reasonable
>investment, I'd retire extremely wealthy -by almost any standards.
>
>That IS theft
Nobody ever made you any promises, Joe, other than you won't starve to
death.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:21:36 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Eric Bennett in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, ZnU
[...]
>So is it theft for rich people who pay tons of money into the fund and
>get less back (in absolute dollars) than other people, because their
>incomes disqualify them from getting full social security benefits?
>
>Is it also theft any time I pay taxes to the government, and I don't get
>back all that money in the form of government services? [...]
No. That's called 'government'. You don't "buy" government when you
pay taxes; you pay for government. And it is, unfortunately, an
expensive proposition. I am certainly going to advocate any reasoned
and feasible reduction in the expenses of government. That isn't a
matter of making reactionary demands, though; it is a matter of applying
social conscience and rigorous ethics.
>If so, then we
>have a society Robin Hood would be quite proud of.
Indeed. With the Republicans as the Sheriff of Nottingham, and the
founding fathers as King Richard.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:25:34 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> Considering they're still getting richer, and the poor are still getting
>> poorer, I fail to see why this would be so.
>>
>> >You have to make something like $20 to 30 K before you pay any taxes.
>> >Meanwhile, I'm paying 50% of my income in taxes (all taxes combined).
>> >
>> >That's an absurd difference.
>>
>> Maybe from your perspective. Try living on $24,000 a year with a family
>> of 3.
>
>Who's fault is that?
I don't assign fault.
>Oh yea I forgot....it's the profiteers fault.
No, its everyone's fault, which is why I don't waste time assigning
fault.
>Anyway a
>family of three can live on 24,000 a year and if they don't like
>it...uhh...earn more money, become a profiteer, thats where the smart money
>is at.
You wouldn't know "smart" if it rammed you up the bunghole. LOL.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:28:08 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Aaron R. Kulkis in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>Hint fucking hint: You can't give a "tax break" to the free loaders
>who aren't paying taxes in the first place.
Hint fucking hint. They aren't "freeloaders". Everyone contributes to
society, whether they are well paid or not. Government's job is to
govern society, not business.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:34:36 +1000
From: Ian Pulsford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Joseph T. Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8o6lm6$f4j$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > : <MSWORDDATA>
> > : sdlkfjsda;lfkjsda f;lsdkf 2340985r32j23lkr2j r23o978xdf0sdjalfkwj 32
> > : </MSWORDDATA>
> >
> > : (where that contains some encoded table)
> >
> >
> > That will parse just fine.
> >
> > It won't be very useful to anyone but M$. But XML never promised to
> > make all data useful.
>
> If the data cannot be interpreted, then what is the use of parsing it? If a
> propertary data file were converted to text as a Radix-64 or uuencoded data
> stream and is framed by valid tags it is still no more useful that what we
> have today. If in fact it would be less useful, processing it would be
> slower and it would consume more storage and other resources than otherwise
> needed.
Well you can do whatever you like with the data; you might want to encrypt it
because it contains your customer's credit card details, but the format of the
data file is still standard and that is what matters.
IanP
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:40:54 +1000
From: Ian Pulsford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
>
> Well you can do whatever you like with the data; you might want to encrypt it
> because it contains your customer's credit card details, but the format of the
> data file is still standard and that is what matters.
[Maybe I shouldn't have posted so quickly] You probably wouldn't encrypt
non-sensitive data, but everyone tries to hide their sensitive data one way or
another. I don't think the issue is whether or not someone else's obscure or
encypted data is readable by all.
IanP
------------------------------
From: Courageous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 05:45:58 GMT
> >Wrong. I oppose feudalism.
>
> What aspects of feudalism do you oppose ?
A more telling question would be to ask the poster who originally
accused Mr. Kulkis of being a "feudalist" what they believe
feudalism actually means...
C//
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:54:03 +1000
From: Ian Pulsford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GUI vs Command Line: The useless war
Sylvain Demers wrote:
> I hope Linux GUI developpers will somehow undestand that they won't
> compete M$ by copying it, but by doing better, and better means smatter,
> not prettier.
I like your point about gui tools showing exactly what they are doing.
Perhaps if they had a little "info" window that displayed the file they were
manipulating and/or the commandline equivalent. But there is no reason unix
config tools cannot be as pretty or prettier than windows tools without going
overboard.
IanP
------------------------------
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