Linux-Advocacy Digest #641, Volume #32 Sun, 4 Mar 01 18:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Windoze Domination/Damnation (J Sloan)
Re: It's here! IBM's new Linux ad! (.)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (pip)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (J Sloan)
Re: Seattle quake was caused by the GPL. (Bloody Viking)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (Tim Hanson)
Re: NT vs *nix performance (Tim Hanson)
Re: Why Linux Is Giving Microsoft a Migraine (Bloody Viking)
Re: NT vs *nix performance ("JS PL")
Re: Why Open Source better be careful - The Microsoft Un-American (Bloody Viking)
Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft (Bloody Viking)
Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market (Bloody Viking)
Re: Linux Joke (Bloody Viking)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (Terry Porter)
Re: It's here! IBM's new Linux ad! ("Mart van de Wege")
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (pip)
Re: So, here's something to chew on... (Matthew Gardiner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windoze Domination/Damnation
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:11:17 GMT
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> In article <DHto6.6356$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> > There's nothing really stopping you from saving a little money, catching a
> > plane to China, and trying to single-handedly stop the human rights abuses,
> > by force if necessary. The only thing STOPPING you is cowardice and/or
> > laziness.
>
> There's one big difference. You _can_ actually buy a PC with Linux
> installed.
isn't that an oxymoron?
Unix != pc OS?
jjs
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: It's here! IBM's new Linux ad!
Date: 4 Mar 2001 21:12:52 GMT
ono <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/linux/passport.swf
>> > --
>> > "Never underestimate the power of a small tactical nuclear weapon."
>>
>> valid URL, but ust black-colored page .. :-(
>>
> You may need to install a proper browser. (like ie5.5 ;-).
Interestingly, IE under solaris cannot see it at all.
More interestingly, netscape under linux does so just fine.
=====.
--
"It's natural to expect there might be people doing stupid things
with computers"
---Michael Vatis, director of the FBI's national infrastructure
protection center commenting on Y2K concerns about hacker attacks
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:14:39 +0000
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> > In many respects Unix is amateurish. Toolkits, printing subsystems and
> > GUI all lack behind at the moment. Of course things are changing FAST
> > and great programming toolkits are now available (read GTK+).
>
> [About printing]
>
> lag behind what?
>
> The printing subsystem on linux works better in general than under
> windows.
Hmmmmmmmm. I think not. Unless you have a postscript printer. Too much
buggering around from defaults.
How do you get that paper out message? Select different print trays?
<skating on thin ice here as I could be wrong>
> For instance if you want several settings for one printer, you have to
> manually change them each time under Windows.
Run that one past me again... Why not create other printer instances?
> The printing drivers are not accesible from the commandline `print'
> command
Are they not? You'd better check that again.
> It doesn't seem to have any print filtering machanism
It does not need one.
> IMO UNIX printing is several steps ahead.
Well you done nothing to convince me that piping is superior to proper
application components or that the printing system is any good either.
They both have their place. In the wastepaper basket of history.
(OK simple piping _is_ very useful - but I think you get what I mean!) I
am just thankful that some parts of the Linux community see this and are
doing something about it! Thank goodness!
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:18:48 GMT
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> US army *admits* to 60mph. (with the speed governor left intact).
>
> My bet is that it's near 100 mph....or faster than any driver can
> actually drive the thing without shaking himself into a giant
> ball of bruises.
I suppose that's possible, given that the tank is powered
by a healthy jet engine.
jjs
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: Seattle quake was caused by the GPL.
Date: 4 Mar 2001 21:31:31 GMT
Tim Hanson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: "This earthquake demonstrates the destabilizing force that Linux and the
: Open Source software movement has on the earth. If people continue to
: support this type of software then natural disasters such as this
: earthquake will continue to occur," said Allchin.
: http://bbspot.com/News/2001/03/earthquake.html
Obvious joke site. Pretty funny in any case, given the quake. I liked the bit
with the murderous BSOD killing an overclocker. If you want to overclock, use
Linux instead. Trick is that Linux is fast and it's Windows * that is so slow
that people get tempted to overclock in the first place. Also, the knock-off
CPUs are less tolerant of overclocking than the Intel chips.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:32:18 GMT
pip wrote:
>
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> > We've had this argument over and over. GUI's are good for newbies
> > and when you can't quite remember what to do. Otherwise, the CLI
> > and scripts rules.
>
> Not just newbies.... my man program gets well used.
I click on TkMan and TkInfo.
--
The full impact of parenthood doesn't hit you until you multiply the
number of your kids by 32 teeth.
------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:35:26 GMT
Quantum Leaper wrote:
>
> "Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > JS PL wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> > > But your IQ theory only applies to those in the 50 to 120 range.
> > > Since I'm 160 I can see the obvious. There's no possible monopoly
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Is your IQ scored in dog points?
>
> Do either of you know what an IQ test really measures? (Hint it not how
> smart you are...)
Centimeters circumference.
--
The full impact of parenthood doesn't hit you until you multiply the
number of your kids by 32 teeth.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is Giving Microsoft a Migraine
Date: 4 Mar 2001 21:52:32 GMT
Edward Rosten ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: To mount the redhat disk:
: mount the disk. gunzip initrd to /tmp
: mount that file on the loopback device.
I simply mount install floppies with mount /dev/fd0 -t ext2 /mnt and just go
to the /mnt dir and start inspecting. If I choose to mess with said disk and
save it, I just rawcopy it like cp /dev/fd0 file and then later cp file
/dev/fd0 to make another floppy.
I simply don't bother with the loopback device only becuse I forgot how to use
it. (: I've done it in the past but forgot. This with devices as "files" is
pretty cool with UNIX and Linux.
A not so secret secret of Slackware disks is that the second disk's image is
gzipped, so you can g-unzip it, rawcopy it like above, hack, rawcopy to a file
and gzip. And of course, use it by rawcopying the gzipped file to the floppy.
And of course, you can use the loopback if you wish.
: Also, RH uses syslinux to boot the disk, as opposed to Lilo.
Are there scripts that go with that syslinux booter? It might serve as an
alternative to the LILO booter, like how I use Loadlin today.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: "JS PL" <js@plcom>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 17:04:34 -0500
"Quantum Leaper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3Txo6.50340$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > JS PL wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> > > But your IQ theory only applies to those in the 50 to 120 range.
> > > Since I'm 160 I can see the obvious. There's no possible monopoly
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Is your IQ scored in dog points?
>
> Do either of you know what an IQ test really measures? (Hint it not how
> smart you are...)
If you don't know, look it up. (hint, you don't even need to get out of your
chair)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: Why Open Source better be careful - The Microsoft Un-American
Date: 4 Mar 2001 22:12:32 GMT
Aaron Kulkis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: True...but GM, Ford, and Chrysler don't sell fuels, so they have
: zero interest in that regard.
This is true, to only a large extent. If fuel gets costly, people will start
using transit and stop buying cars. If you look at the prices of the cars and
insurance, the petrol looks pretty damn cheap compared to those monthly
payments. At $2/gallon, it's still pretty cheap compared to $300/month for the
car itself, let along the full coverage.
At, say, $5/gallon, a car shopper will want to buy a car that has good fuel
economy, and if you had a choice of paying $20,000 for either a conventional
SUV or a petrol-electric car, you'll buy the latter. Certainly, the smart
shopper would pick the petrol-electric becuse by the time petrol goes up to
$5/gallon, it's becuse oil production worldwide maxed out and started its
inevitable maddening decline.
While car companies don't sell petrol, the industry is closely linked to the
petroleum industry. After all, without fuel, cars become useless artifacts.
That means car companies have to consider future fuel supplies when designing
cars. Now, with the Honda Insight and Ford Prius petrol-electrics, you have to
wonder why, given how SUVs sell like hotcakes.
And the fact is that the concept has been around for DECADES in the form of
the diesel-electric train locomotive. Why, oh, why, only NOW are car companies
daring to introduce a car designed like miniature train engine? We are not
talking rocket science here. The technology has been pushing and pulling
commuter trains for decades. HELLO!!! It's obvious that car companies know
that future fuel supplies will be limited. There is no other reason to design
a car like a train engine to get hyper- fuel economy. The railroads have been
buying the technology since the day it was invented.
Oil production WILL max out - and soon. The car companies know it. THAT is why
only now do you see petrol-electric cars on sale.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft
Date: 4 Mar 2001 22:17:44 GMT
Tim Hanson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: "Open standards also undermine such proprietary computer operating
: systems as Microsoft's Windows and Sun Microsystems's Solaris. Both
: companies are IBM rivals, and IBM Chairman Louis Gerstner has said both
: companies' proprietary models are doomed. IBM is far along in a drive to
: make all its software and hardware Linux-compatible."
With that, if Bill Gates was smart, he'd start selling his stocks to extract
as much money as he can, so as to remain rich. It's just that he won't be
_ridiculously_ rick like now.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market
Date: 4 Mar 2001 22:33:45 GMT
Aaron Kulkis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Bloody Viking wrote:
: > Sadly, the virus coder fuckwits are helping the Linux cause, and a deregister
: What's so sad about that?
The sad part is that the virus coders are criminal in nature. We can sure use
advocacy, but these loose cannons we can do without. I'm all in favour of
Linux, but the end does not justify the means that virus coders have chosen.
There is such a thing as a moral high ground, and that is more important than
advocacy of virus coding.
That said, I have to admit that the concept of a future "deregister" virus is
pretty funny. Given the Windows security holes big enough to drive a carrier
battlegroup through, the virus is inevitable. SOME fuckwith will code it, with
or without virus advocacy.
: If M$-users suffer from EXACTLY what we have been tirelessly warning
: them about...well, then *FUCK* them.
Easy to get that attitude. (:
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Joke
Date: 4 Mar 2001 22:41:00 GMT
Keldon Warlord 2000 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: the real answer is: because he has to.
Funny how my ancient 2.0.0 kernel still works after all these years. Like the
Energiser Rabbit, it keeps going and going and going and going...
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 04 Mar 2001 22:45:34 GMT
On Sun, 04 Mar 2001 14:49:29 +0000,
pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In many respects Unix is amateurish.
The use of emotionaly negative phrases won't help your argument here.
> Toolkits, printing subsystems and
>GUI all lack behind at the moment.
Which GUI, there are at least 22 Linux GUI's, are you aware of this ?
Which printing subsystem, we have the BSD, and Cups, which one do you mean?
Does the term 'lack behind' accurately describe a GUI thats natively able
to do *remote gui*, whereas Windows, without 3rd party apps,*cannot* do this ?
> Of course things are changing FAST
>and great programming toolkits are now available (read GTK+).
GTK has been available for years now, its not new.
>
>You are only demonstrating that you don't understand windows are brand
>it stupid. I am not convinced that it is Windows that is.
Course not, its the user thats stupid,as always ... right?
>
>Of course windows is restricting in MANY ways - but this gibberish above
>just goes to show how some Linux users are absolutely blind to the good
>points in the Windows OS.
Name just ONE?
> In contrast Linux is a fanastic OPEN system -
>but before you pat yourself on the back - just remember that is still
>crap in many areas and until these get properly solved then you'd better
>not knock "products" that do solve these problems for "normal" users.
Just how well they 'solve' these problems, is a subject open to much
conjecture.
>They may not be GPL - but they do work.
Please define 'work' ?
Does a virii infested pc 'work' ?
Does continual lockups, and re boots 'work' ?
Do continual upgrades, staff re-training, license fees and cal's 'work' ?
Your post contained lots of feel good phrases on behalf of Windows, but
little substance.
Terry
------------------------------
From: "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: It's here! IBM's new Linux ad!
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 23:54:04 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Tim Hanson wrote:
>>
>> Is this walkin' the walk? Or what?
>>
>> http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/linux/passport.swf
>> --
>> "Never underestimate the power of a small tactical nuclear weapon."
>
> valid URL, but ust black-colored page .. :-(
>
Just strip the passport.swf from the URL, then click on the ad at the top
of the page. Worked for me (BTW this is definite proof you're using
Mozilla).
Mart
--
You have a reputation for being thoroughly reliable and trustworthy.
A pity that it's totally undeserved.
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 23:02:35 +0000
Terry Porter wrote:
>
> On Sun, 04 Mar 2001 14:49:29 +0000,
> pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >In many respects Unix is amateurish.
> The use of emotionaly negative phrases won't help your argument here.
>
> > Toolkits, printing subsystems and
> >GUI all lack behind at the moment.
> Which GUI, there are at least 22 Linux GUI's, are you aware of this ?
No I've only been using Linux for about 2 years.
> Which printing subsystem, we have the BSD, and Cups, which one do you mean?
Good point. Which indeed. That _is_ indeed the problem.
> Does the term 'lack behind' accurately describe a GUI thats natively able
> to do *remote gui*, whereas Windows, without 3rd party apps,*cannot* do this ?
Cheap shot. You should know that I am talking about HCI.
> > Of course things are changing FAST
> >and great programming toolkits are now available (read GTK+).
> GTK has been available for years now, its not new.
Gnome was not. Components were not.
> >You are only demonstrating that you don't understand windows are brand
> >it stupid. I am not convinced that it is Windows that is.
> Course not, its the user thats stupid,as always ... right?
In this case I'll leave you to make up your closed mind.
> >Of course windows is restricting in MANY ways - but this gibberish above
> >just goes to show how some Linux users are absolutely blind to the good
> >points in the Windows OS.
> Name just ONE?
OLE, COM (DCOM), ActiveX, DirectX, Driver support, Software support, UI
consistency.
> > In contrast Linux is a fanastic OPEN system -
> >but before you pat yourself on the back - just remember that is still
> >crap in many areas and until these get properly solved then you'd better
> >not knock "products" that do solve these problems for "normal" users.
> Just how well they 'solve' these problems, is a subject open to much
> conjecture.
Then explain why people use them?
> >They may not be GPL - but they do work.
> Please define 'work' ?
Go read a dictionary.
> Does a virii infested pc 'work' ?
You are being stupid.
> Does continual lockups, and re boots 'work' ?
You are avoiding the _real_ issues.
> Do continual upgrades, staff re-training, license fees and cal's 'work' ?
Ask your company. What has this got to do with the context of this
argument?
> Your post contained lots of feel good phrases on behalf of Windows, but
> little substance.
Well read this and comment. I can see now what your typical attitude is.
The red mist is strong in this one. If you read my comments in context
then you would understand that I am a user of both Linux and Windows, so
I say these comments with the point being to show that all is not evil
that M$ has done. Open your mind to ideas that are good and everything
will improve. Keep your red mist and be stuck in the past.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: So, here's something to chew on...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:07:49 +1300
thats if Windows doesn't freeze up when you try to shut down the
computer.
Matthew Gardiner
"Bryant Charleston, MCSE" wrote:
>
> Cold boot time, buddy! :-(
>
> "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:97mlhm$1gu$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > So, under Windows 2000 Pro, i was merrily surfing along with 256M RAM, and
> > ICQ, AIM and Outlook Expres, and Livejournal's client running in the
> > background..
> >
> > Went to start Musicmatch Jukebox, and things started to act odd..so, i
> > closed MM. Things were still acting odd. CTRL-ALT-DELETE, brought up the
> > "taskmanager" and found t he PID for Windows Explorer was using 95-100%
> CPU
> > time.
> >
> > Time to kill it.
> >
> > Clicked "Kill Process."
> >
> > "Action denied."
> >
> > What the fuck?..
> >
> > Clicked it again.
> >
> > "Action denied."
> >
> > Grr..
> >
> > Logged out of my non-admin user account, and tried as Administrator.
> >
> > "Action denied."
> >
> > Grr!!!..
> >
> > Logged back into the non-admin account. Still had the same processes in
> the
> > background. Still frozen at 95-100% CPU time.
> >
> > Now, I assume that Windows will refuse to let one disable things and turn
> > off things, to maintain system stability. But when you have a runaway
> > process like that, you've got to try to kill it, and restart it again,
> > right? I mean, under the UNIX world, I can always hit a keystroke, log
> into
> > another console, and ps all i like to find the runaway process, and kill
> it
> > by process id, log back out, and carry on my merry day, right?
> >
> > I mean, rebooting is a sign of surrender, isn't it? When you've exhausted
> > everything you can think of, you reboot.
> >
> > So, in so many words, I have an operating system that tells me "No,
> asshole,
> > you cannot do that because *I* know that if you disable that I will lock
> up,
> > crash, or grow unstable." Even though I realize the implications, and also
> > realized that it had already grown unstable, and found out what was
> burning
> > up CPU time.
> >
> > Even though it was already unstable? I could not go in and try to remove
> > what was causing the problem, because my OS said it would not allow me to
> do
> > it?
> >
> > At least with UNIX, there never is a question to whether or not your
> > computer will flat out refuse to do something that you tell it, as root.
> It
> > can question, but it will not refuse, to the best of my knowledge. It does
> > not assume to know more about what you need to do than you know. If you
> tell
> > it to do something boneheaded, by gosh, it will do exactly that.
> >
> > I have never had to wrestle with a UNIX system because of simple problems.
> I
> > have never had to wonder if my computer will deny me access to something
> > because it felt it should not do such a thing. My only worry was because I
> > do not know UNIX enough, that I will type the wrong command and toast
> root.
> > Or /usr/sbin. or /usr anything. But that is because the fault would lie
> > squarely on my shoulders if something stupid were to happen.
> >
> > So, I rebooted.
> >
> > Uptime for Win2k Pro -- three hours.
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > Adrian Feliciano
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > ***
> > Do What thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
> > Love is the law, love under will
> > -Aleister Crowley
> >
> > Harm None
> > -Wiccan Law
> >
> > As above, so below
> > -Hermetic Philosophy
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
------------------------------
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