Linux-Advocacy Digest #558, Volume #29 Mon, 9 Oct 00 22:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (John Lockwood)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (John Lockwood)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Richard)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (John Lockwood)
Legal issues - Re: Linux DVD player! (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... (sfcybear)
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... (sfcybear)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (John Lockwood)
Re: Winvocates and Linvocates: What do you use your desktop OS for? (Bob Hauck)
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... (Bob Hauck)
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... (Bob Hauck)
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... (Bob Hauck)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (John Lockwood)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:36:05 -0700
On Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:39:29 +0200, "Fr�d�ric G. MARAND"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Can you seriously write that ?
>
>Or add something like "..part of the time" .
>
>John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a �crit dans le message :
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:25:25 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>[...]
>> 1) Windows works.
>[...]
>
Well, given that I develop on NT day in and day out, and it crashes
infrequently enough that I'm not annoyed by it, I'd say that "Windows
works" is fair. Doesn Linux work better? All by itself, yes, but not
when one adds XWindows.
John
------------------------------
From: John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:38:50 -0700
On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:22:16 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>>Well, I've never used WINE, but the conclusion I'd be more likely to
>>reach given the above is that your premise that WINE emulates Windows
>>is false.
>
>Therefore Win32 is a piece of crap. I'm not going to impugn the
>capabilities of a developer I do not have knowledge of. All the
>WinTrolls seem pretty quick to pronounce the WINE team as incompetent or
>unknowledgeable, but that isn't surprising.
I didn't say any such thing, you did. They may not have been at it
long, or they may be working part time. I really don't care, because
I have no ax to grind here.
But listening to someone who by his own admission is "an advocate and
not a developer" say WIN32 is crap because he dislikes Microsoft is
only really entertaining for a short time.
John
------------------------------
From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:39:16 GMT
Roberto Alsina wrote:
> El lun, 09 oct 2000, Richard escribi�:
> >What a lie. If you were curious, you'd have followed the references
> >I gave earlier and already known this. But anyways,
> >
> >The law of detail scaling. And it only violates this several different ways.
>
> Care to cite the law? I find no reference to it in the 'net.
Never bothered to think this might be related to the Architecture
and Order links I already gave, did you ?? A search of "architecture"
and "detail scaling" yielded one reference on the first page alone!
A Universal Rule for the Distribution of Sizes
http://www.math.utsa.edu/sphere/salingar/Universal.html
Under:
PUBLICATIONS IN ARCHITECTURE AND URBANISM
http://www.math.utsa.edu/sphere/salingar/contr.arch.html
------------------------------
From: John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:40:36 -0700
On 9 Oct 2000 21:59:26 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 3) Notepad is a trivial windows application. (Defined as an
>> application a good Windows programmer could complete in a week or
>> two).
>
>Are you saying that you would expect a good Windows programmer to take a
>week or two to implement Notepad? Is that a reasonable estimate of the
>time it would take for a program like that?
That's what I already said. Did you want me to say it again for some
particular reason, such as to try to get me to have to contradict
myself later? In that case, what I really meant was either a day or
six years, depending on where you're headed. LOL
John
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Legal issues - Re: Linux DVD player!
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:25:15 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Bartek Kostrzewa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My dear friends, soon, really soon (ok, or a little later, but who
> cares) Linux will finally have the DVD player it deserves.
>
> http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/LinDVD.jsp
>
> Hmm, I'm really looking forward to the release of this thingie, let's
> wait and see.
Unfortunately, the MPAA is doing everything they can to prevent this
thing from coming to market. Furthermore, they are allowing Microsoft
to do exactly what they are trying to prevent LinDVD and DeCSS from
doing.
DeCSS was designed exclusively for playback of DVD-CSS encoded DVDs
which were had to be converted from the encrypted MPEG2 format into
unencrypted MPEG format. The MPEG could be viewed by any number of
MPEG viewers already available to Linux. Why reinvent the wheel if
you don't have to.
The developer lived in Norway and implemented the DeCSS design using
publicly available information collected from press releases. The
actual key cracks were the hardest part, but since only a few keys
were used and only 40 bit encryption was used, it wasn't too hard to
derive the keys which provided the desired decryption.
When this software was published, a number of sites, probably
sponsored by Microsoft or Microsoft supporters, proceeded to
tout DeCSS as a "piracy tool", which would allow DeCSS users
to decode DVDs, save clips to their hard drive, and "edit
your own movies". Furthermore, you could use DeCSS to transform
the encrypted content (which left the "fingerprint" of the publisher)
and publish the unencrypted content via multicast technology such as
publish and subscribe, ip-multicast (mbone), or irc-ii.
The fact that the content itself provided trace-back capabilities,
that the original publisher could easily be traced, and that the
penalty for such distribution was $250,000 fine or 25 years in prison
was not mentioned in these piracy advocacy sites.
In fact, recent iterations of DeCSS and variants explicitly exclude
illegal replication and publication from the license. Put another
way, it's open source, you have the right to make copies of the
software, and you can browse the software for information. However,
you don't have the right to use the software for illegal purposes
such as copyright violation.
One site's README file even lists the penalties and warns that
if this iteration of software is used for illegal purposes, that
every effort to cooperate with the authorities (tracing your
download in the htlogs for example) will be provided. This
precaution was taken just in case someone decided to hack
the server.
Perhaps this would be a worthwhile extension of the GPL. Quite simply,
it's not in the best interests of Linux, the Internet, or the IT
community as a whole to encourage the use of GPL software for the
purpose of committing felonies (or their international equivelants).
If Richard Stallman (or one of his group) happens to spot this in
a search, perhaps the Free Software Foundation would like to add this
little provision?
> --
> Best regards,
> Bartek Kostrzewa - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <<< http://technoage.web.lu >>>
>
--
Rex Ballard - I/T Architect, MIS Director
Linux Advocate, Internet Pioneer
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 50 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 5%/month! (recalibrated 8/2/00)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:26:50 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:07:35 +1000, Chris Sherlock
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Really? Then what do you call Visual C++, Borland C++, Turbo Pascal,
or
> >Delphi?
>
> And how much shelf space do they take up at CompUsa or Microcenter?
>
> Compared to rest of the applications for Windows?
Silly argument considering what you said about spliting hairs.
>
> >> >We don't need 200 different text editors.
> >
> >Hmmm. What about the port of vi for DOS. What about Notepad, Wordpad,
> >Write, NoteTab (http://www.notetab.com) or Free Notepad
> >(http://www.yellowforest.com/freefilesexplorer/index.htm)? Obviously,
> >someone felt that Windows needed another text editor!
>
> Walk up to 1000 Windows users at random on Main St. USA and ask them
> if they use vi? Or Emacs or Brief (they still make that one?)
>
> Another programmer :)
>
> >> >We don't need all kinds of freeware libraries and fragmented
programs
> >> >that do specific functions, most of which are useless to all but
other
> >> >programmers..
> >
> >That's right. Libraries are only used by programmers for their
programs.
> >In a way you are right - libraries *are* very useful for coders. They
> >allow each other to reuse each other's code without having to
recompile
> >everything all the time and causing great big fat bloated apps.
>
> I'm talking about average folks. Programmers are a minuscule part of
> the population.
>
> >Interestingly, you have *no* idea what libraries are used for.
Windows
> >uses a TON of libraries (two of which are kernel32.dll and GDI32.dll
-
> >funny that, isn't it?)
>
> Actually I do, having gone through Win3.1, 95 and every other version.
> dll's are well known to me :)
>
> >Libraries are very good things - reusable code is a very good thing.
> >Perhaps you don't really know what you are talking about here?
Besides,
> >I have to ask you what libraries you find are so "useless".
>
> Never said that. I said average Joe could care less.
>
> >> >We don't need 90 percent of the software on Freshmeat.
> >
> >*You* may not need 90 percent of the software on Freshmeat, but then
> >again *you* don't need 90% of the programs on Winfiles! What is your
> >point?
>
> The programs I see on Winfiles are useful to the average secretary or
> a kid looking for some game or address book or something. While
> Freshmeat does have some of that kind of stuff, you have to wade
> through page after page of fragmented technical stuff. Ie:programmer
> tools for GTK QT etc.
>
> >Freshmeat catalogues all sorts of open-source software. Some of it is
> >obscure, a lot of it is very usefull!
>
> To programmers mostly. Like Linux in general.
>
> >> >We don't want to return to the 1980's playing with config files.
> >
> >Unfortuneately, most higher level technicians are still playing
around
> >with the registry, and some still even play around with config files.
>
> Programmers again.
> >> >
> >> >We have gone through Config.sys and Autoexec.bat files ad nauseam
with
> >> >Qemm and Qualatis, playing with Himem.sys to gain that extra 5k of
> >> >free memory.
> >> >
> >> >This is 1980's stuff and it is gone, goodbye. We don't want to
> >> >resurrect playing around with text files.
> >
> >So why is knowledge of these things still a requirement of the A+
> >certification?
>
> Because programmers net techs, sysadmins need this stuff. Useful to
> them, useless to average Joe and Jane.
>
> >> >We don't want half assed implementations of Windows software
either.
> >> >If you choose to clone it but can't clone it completely, including
all
> >> >ease of use features, don't bother at all. it will only make you
look
> >> >silly. The current crop of mp3 players are a good example. Damm
things
> >> >can't even remember the song directory.
> >
> >OK, can't comment too much on your mp3 player. Then again, you didn't
> >tell me which one you use!
>
> MusicMatch JukeBox. Or Pyro by Cakewalk.
>
> >Of course, you didn't mention what are "half assed implementations of
> >Windows software". Would you care to give some examples?
>
> Pick one.
>
> Pick any one of the current Winamp, ACDEESE,Agent clones.
>
> >> >We are willing to pay for quality software that works out of the
box.
> >> >And Windows has plenty of it.
> >
> >Caldera, Mandrake and RedHat all have software that works "out of the
> >box".
>
> A ton of programmer stuff again...
>
> >> >Example: Norton Internet Firewall, BlackIce, Zonealarm (free BTW).
> >> >Compare this to trying to set up a firewall under Linux using
> >> >IpChains, ipforwarding and such....What a waste of time, as well
as a
> >> >potential security risk for those setting it up that don't know
what
> >> >they are doing.
> >
> >Ah, yeah. Right. Have you ever tried gfcc? This is a *very* nice
> >graphical firewall. See http://icarus.autostock.co.kr/ Even nicer is
> >Lokkit - See http://www.linux.org.uk/apps/lokkit.shtml
> >
> >Then there is Nessus: http://www.nessus.org and Firestarter
> >http://firestarter.sourceforge.net/
> >
> >Like KDE? Try GuardDog at http://www.simonzone.com/software/guarddog/
> >
> >Want more? Have a look at the following page:
> >http://www.linuxberg.com/x11html/adm_firewall.html
>
> And how much of my lifetime do I have to devote to setting these up?
>
> >> >Sorry but my data is worth $30.00 or so, to have a professionally
> >> >designed program that works out of the box and is easily
customized.
> >> >Also I don't have to scour the net for config scripts that may
> >> >actually compromise security. The products I use, and pay for, are
> >> >used by corporations everywhere, and if a flaw should arise, and
they
> >> >do, a fix is released....
> >
> >Funnily enough, this happens *frequently* in Linux also.
>
> Agreed..
>
> >> >Browsers?
> >> >
> >> >Netscape, says it all. Even Windows users think Netscape sucks.
> >
> >OK, let's see. We have Opera for Linux (http://www.opera.com/linux/),
> >Mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org), Skipstone
> >(http://www.muhri.net/skipstone/), Galeon
> >(http://galeon.sourceforge.net/), Express (a very new one, see
> >http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~conradp/express/) and Encompass
> >(http://www.geocities.com/lordzephyroth/encompass.html) just to name
a
> >few.
>
> Opera 4.02 stinks under Windows. It has been in eternal beta for
> Linux.
> IE 5 is the standard and nobody has surpassed it yet, least of all
> Netscrape.
>
> >Actually I don't mind Netscape too much when I use it on Windows. It
> >does the job, and at least when I hit the <esc> button it actually
> >*stops* loading pages, unlike it's famous competitor.
>
> You are settling for a second rate product.
>
> >> >
> >> >Email?
> >> >
> >> >Anything like Eudora yet?
> >> >Sorry but I don't feel like configuring sendmail today, or any day
for
> >> >that matter.
> >
> >Ah, yeah. Shows how much *you* know about email doesn't it? Who uses
> >sendmail for desktop systems??!!!???
> >
> >Try Eucalyptus (MIME aware, and can be found at
> >http://eucalyptus.sourceforge.net/) or Mahogany
> >(http://www.wxwindows.org/Mahogany/). Again, KDE has a great email
> >program called KMail (see http://devel-home.kde.org/~kmail/)
>
> Kmail isn't bad.
>
> >> >Linux still lags far, far, far, far, behind Windows and this is
> >> >evident by the number of sales of Windows ME.... Why would people
pay
> >> >for what really amounts to a minimal upgrade instead of getting
Linux
> >> >for free?
> >> >They are not interested in Linux, that is why.
> >
> >Uh, yeah. Great syllogism - everybody is not interested in Linux
because
> >they are buying Windows ME. Ever heard of the dual-booting? I believe
> >that all those Linux distrubutions out there would be very interested
> >that noone is interested in Linux!
>
> They are dual booting for a short while to try Linux. When they run
> out of space loading mp3's, Linux partition goes down the drain.
>
> >> >Linux has had it's day in the press, let's do every desktop user a
> >> >favor and put it out of it's misery once and for all :)
> >
> >I'm sure all those KDE and GNOME users out there would have something
to
> >say about that!
>
> I actually like kde and Gnome and feel they are doing a fine job. I
> just loaded kde 2.0 and a lot has changed from 1.x.
>
> >> >I along with everybody else in the world would LOVE free
applicaitons,
> >> >but not at the price that running Linux involves.
> >
> >You may want to have a look at Helix Code or Mandrake. I think that
> >these would suit you down to the ground.
>
> I run Mandrake 7.1 and yes, I do think it is one of, if not, the best
> distro.
>
> >Chris
>
> In a nutshell, I AGREE with most of what you are saying Chris, but I
> am looking at Linux from a typical users point of view. Not as an os
> for a programmer, but an OS alternative for someone using Windows or
> Mac.
> Linux has to do more to focus on that kind of user or it will never be
> able to erode the already installed Windows base.
>
> Make no mistake about it, people could care less about the DOJ and
> Microsoft, BUT from what I hear people are getting tired of being
> nickel and dimes for upgrades to Windows. They are also getting tired
> of the required upgrades of their applications to run properly. The
> version of the month club is starting to annoy people.
>
> Golden opportunity for Linux IMHO..
>
> It's been nice talking with you...
>
> Claire
>
> >> >claire
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:33:57 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> And what valid argument is that?
>
> Be specific please.
>
Please read the thread dearie. Unless you have blinders you will see
many.
> claire
>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:50:16 +1300, Gardiner Family
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Claire has appointed her self as the guru of computing yet when it
comes to a
> >valid argument she is stumped for a reply. I am no guru, however, I
do however
> >actually analyse the facts. Many of the posts made my Linux
Advocates saying
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:42:43 -0700
On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:50:04 -0400, Gary Hallock
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Well, this whole discussion seems to be based on a false assumption.
>Notepad does work on Wine. And I run Lotus Notes under Wine every day at
>work.
OK, fair enough. If I've posted something inaccurate, I apologize.
Regards,
John
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Winvocates and Linvocates: What do you use your desktop OS for?
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:04:42 GMT
On 8 Oct 2000 20:17:15 -0500, Drestin Black
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>can X create a desktop resolution of 64,000 by 64,000 at 24-bit color
>(optionally) across multiple displays?
Do you have 2500 displays that you want to make into one desktop? I
don't, and I don't think you can put that many video cards in a PC if
you did.
64000 / 1280 = 50, 50 displays x 50 displays = 2500 displays
FWIW, XFree can use multiple displays, and it can go up to "only"
32kx32k in 24 or 32-bit color. Other X servers may vary.
>Terminal Services (metaframe) can. with 128 bit encryption?
Yes, running X over ssh will encrypt sessions nicely. You even get a
choice of cyphers and ssh is nice enough to automatically set up the
display forwarding.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:04:45 GMT
On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:20:13 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Amazing, so six programmer types (which includes engineers and other
>geek types) respond and try to defend their beloved Linux by splitting
>hairs and playing semantics.
So are you saying that programmers and engineers should be forced to
use consumer-level tools because "90% of consumers do"?
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:04:48 GMT
On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:57:18 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>actually i think Claire is making a very good job at arguing for here(?)
>point, you may or may not agree with her(?)
It is an it named Steve.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:04:50 GMT
On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:41:30 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Does having a BSEE and 25 or so years in IT count?
Which personality was it that earned the degree? This one, or one of
the others?
>I have a feeling I was loading opcode's into a KIM-1 unit by hand
>before you were even hatched.
Probably not.
>Ever use a Card Reader/Punch?
Yes.
>Know what an Hp-41CV is?
Yes.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:50:28 -0700
On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:13:31 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>You've confused me with somebody else. I don't hate the Windows API; I
>hate Microsoft for developing it predatoraly as a lock-in method to
>concretize the barrier of entry to support their illegal monopoly. This
>is what makes the API crap; not how hard it is to work with. Though I
>haven't heard many good things from non-fanatic developers.
Of course not, since you define anyone who disagrees with you as a
fanatic, even though we may in fact be Java programmers who don't
think the Windows API is all that great technically, but might
nevertheless be inclined to disagree with your glib and highly
motivated dismissal of what in fact functions quite well for all its
flaws.
>No, I'm talking about the difficulties avoiding it, working with it,
>porting it, or emulating it.
That's less clear rather than more, but whatever.
>>Have you ever used it?
>
>I'm not a developer, just an advocate.
>>>is crap. The evidence it is crap is the fact that WINE can't even get
>>>the simplest text edit functions of the API to work, though any
>>>programmer can get it to work in their apps using any flavor or Windows.
Apparently from another poster WINE in fact does work well enough to
run notepad. I wouldn't know either way.
>
>>What do you mean by crap?
>
>The standard vernacular; a piece of shit.
Well, it's not that. The reason I can tell is because I'm typing on
it now and it doesn't smell, and my hands aren't brown. So you just
hate Microsoft and that's fine, I don't love them that much either.
Neither do I hate them to the point of swearing about them.
>
>>Clearly you don't mean that programmers can't use it -- you seemed to
>>for awhile but now you've retreated from that.
>
>No, I haven't 'retreated' from anything. Yes, many competent
>programmers have stated that the Win32 API is a horrendously convoluted
>pile of crap, but clearly it is not unusable. Merely unavoidable.
Now you're just going every which way, which is somewhat fun to watch,
but I fear the fun may be short lived.
>You have a disfunctionally narrow view of the issue. All the API had to
>be in order to succeed was lacking competition, which was handily
>provided by criminal activity, quite separate and distinct from any
>technical usability.
So in other words because they had a monopoly I could -- as a junior
programmer at the time -- learn to use it even though it was
technically unusable? I do admit it's tough to follow you sometimes.
John
------------------------------
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