Linux-Advocacy Digest #558, Volume #30 Thu, 30 Nov 00 08:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Off Topic: Funny Light Bulb Joke: ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Whistler review. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux is awful (David M. Butler)
Re: Whistler review. (kiwiunixman)
Re: Linux is awful ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: C++ is very alive! (Andy Newman)
Re: C++ is very alive! (Andy Newman)
Re: Whistler review. ("Tom Wilson")
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? (Andy Newman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Funny Light Bulb Joke:
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:47:17 GMT
"kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> The license would work like this:
>
> One from the electricity supplier
> One for each person/animal who get benefit from it
>
> However, you would have to upgrade the power board with all Microsoft
> made fuses and components, otherwise the bulb will be buggy and
> unreliable, however, once you've upgraded the switch board, all the rest
> of the light bulbs in the house don't work as they donot understand the
> Microsoft Lightbuld Protocol (MLP), so you have to upgrade all of the
> light bulbs, by the time all this has been done, your switchboard has
> blown up as there are too many simultaneos lights on at any one time.
>
> kiwiunixman
<LOL>
--
Tom Wilson
Go home Al....
Game over, man!
>
> Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> > "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >> How about people who post about how if M$ made lightbulbs, they would
> >> have a pretty pattern on the surface but would stop working until you
> >> switched them off and on again?
> >
> >
> > Or would require a separate liscense for each person walking through the
> > room.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tom Wilson
> > Go home Al....
> > Game over, man!
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:43:56 +0200
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > You can sell GNU software, but the problem with it, that if you intend
to
> > make *profit* from GNU software, you don't make it from selling it.
>
> The usual way to make a profit is by selling service and commodities.
> I can make a lot more in the same time by consulting for a lab,
> for example, than by writing code at work.
That is not good if you make a general purpose software.
Especially if it's widely spread.
Take linux, frex, I didn't pay anything for my dist, and I've several, I
didn't pay for support, but I get it nonetheless, from newsgroup, email
lists, IRC, friends, and so on.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:47:36 +0200
"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:1SrV5.102$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:905e4n$npr$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:C5qV5.88$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:90417b$4tc0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > "mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > In article <903r8k$594r$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > >> In article <8vulpn$5pbkd$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende
> Rahien
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > >> >> In article <3a228f5a$0$14371$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Conrad
> > > > Rutherford
> > > > > >> >wrote:
> > > > > >> >> >how would you know?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> I think he knows what's run better for him, which is what he
> > said.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> It's nothing like :
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >That's like saying you run Linux cause it kicks DOS 6.22's
> ass.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> at all.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> wa waaaaa.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> Besides, we really don't care whether Ayende likes the
colour
> > > > > >> >> scheme of DOS7.3 or DOS8 or whatever this will be.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >There isn't, nor ever was, DOS in NT line.
> > > > > >> >You are thinking 9x line.
> > > > > >> >A very common mistake with linadvocates, it seems.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Shame really, 'cos the only thing I would actually use
> > > > > >> Microsoft OS for in my own time would be game playing. And
> > > > > >> that's only possible with DOS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >That is just about the most ridicilous, inaccurate, and idiotic
> > > statement
> > > > > >that I've heard since I last read Aaron's posts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Que? My, we are getting personal. Well, 'tis true. I do not
> > > > > run MS OSs in my spare time except under _exceptional_
> circumstances.
> > > > > The only one I know of is for a game which will only run under
> > > > > dos. That's that. It's a fact, and I don't really see how you
> > > > > can call it inaccurate.
> > > >
> > > > Because not even a moderatedly successful game came out in the last
> > three
> > > > years or so that didn't run on windows?
> > > >
> > >
> > > You have to remember, Ayende, that a lot of folks still play games
that
> > were
> > > written before Win95.
> >
> > I know, GoldenAxe is my favoraite old time game.
> > I can still play it, your point?
>
> Simply, a rebuttle to the "...only possible with DOS" and "Because not
even
> a moderatedly successful game came out in the last three years or so that
> didn't run on windows?" portions of the thread.
>
> If you want to have fun with an old DOS game, find the original IBM-PC
port
> of Centipede and play it on a modern machine. It's hillarious!
It isn't refuting my arguement. It isn't even close.
What game in the *last three years* run on DOS and was even moderatedly
successful?
Mark's original statement was that he couldn't run games on non-dos
platform.
Qoute:
Shame really, 'cos the only thing I would actually use
Microsoft OS for in my own time would be game playing. And
that's only possible with DOS.
You've failed to answer my question, what even modertedly successful game
(for the PC) came out in the last three years that didn't run on Windows?
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:48:27 +0200
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:4hiV5.26842$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:903jsn$568q$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > As usual you are avoiding reality. Do you dictate to everyone
else in
> > > > your
> > > > > office and your clients and customers how they are allowed to
> > > communicate
> > > > > with you, or do you do what you are forced to do and accommodate
them?
> > > >
> > > > I dictate them to use a file format which I can use.
> > >
> > > And just how many clients and customers have gone along with your
demands?
> >
> > All of them.
> > If they want me to read their files, they send them in a format that I
can
> > read.
>
> Whoa, you're one tough cookie. Hopefully your customers use linux
> so they can send you any format you request, and not just Microsoft
> formats.
I can read a variety of formats, and there is always HTML & PDF
------------------------------
From: David M. Butler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 07:53:25 -0500
J.C.Posey wrote:
> I'm all for Linux, and am slowly making the shift to only Linux, but the
> more I'm involved with it, the more I get the feeling that the Linux
> community is
> not really interested in helping the average user. In fact, they tend to
> view the average user as a 'luser' which is pathetic really.
Yes, but the usenet Linux community isn't the only available, and this is
where you find most of the "elite" users with that view. The REAL problem
with Linux is that there aren't an incredible amount of preconfigured Linux
boxes for home use (compared to the numbers for MS). If there was a higher
number of easily available home Linux boxes already configured, and they
had customer support departments that know as much about Linux as Windows,
it would be a lot easier to get started. Most of the problem is getting
Linux setup, and getting all the hardware working, which is difficult for
non-computer oriented folk. (And some Linux users as well as Windows users
look down on these people, unfortunately). Actually using something like
KDE 2.0, or Gnome is not that tough once it's setup properly. My
computer-despising fiance has no trouble using KDE 2.0 for her everyday
usage (email & word processing).
D. Butler
------------------------------
From: kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:54:19 GMT
I'm not going to be a pain in the ass, but I have some questions:
>
> In my experience, Microsoft Office is the best office suite available.
> (Regardless of cost).
What do you like about it? I have used it and I have found that Corel
Wordpefect gives the best results, esp. creating highly graphical
documents, the ability to clean up clip art after resizing it, smooth
fonts when using the Corel type Wordart, and handles HTML pages better
than Microsoft Word or Publisher.
>
> It would be more prudent to state that Microsoft does not produce
> quality Operating Systems.
Must agree with that, I would like to see one of their OS's based on the
BSD Mach 4.4 Kernel, throw the Windows GUI on, and forget about backward
compatibility, I think it is about time some of these company's woke up
and smelled the coffee, provide for the OS, or close up shop. Make a
developer app to help third party vendor move apps to the new platform
(by redirecting all the Windows API calls to the new, UNIX like API
calls), I would also like to see a clean, properly documented set of API
calls to a make developers life easier.
>
>
> Directx (as it stands just now) is a fantastic piece of software.
> (Built, I know, to overcome windows' shortcomings as a gaming os)
DirectX is a piece of rubbish, write a game for DirectX and say go by to
the chance of easily porting it to another platform without a total
rewrite, OpenGL is the way to go, platform independent and very reliable.
>
> Messenger is the best chat tool bar none.
? Don't use it. I use ICQ.
>
>
> If microsoft were to truly try and create a brand new operating system
> from scratch, having backwards compatability via nothing more than a
> virtual machine, I bet they could create an extremely nice OS. It`s
> their hang-ups regarding backwards compatability which have caused
> problems in every OS they have created from Windows3.1 onwards...
>
kiwiunixman
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:54:33 +0200
"David M. Butler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> J.C.Posey wrote:
>
> > I'm all for Linux, and am slowly making the shift to only Linux, but the
> > more I'm involved with it, the more I get the feeling that the Linux
> > community is
> > not really interested in helping the average user. In fact, they tend
to
> > view the average user as a 'luser' which is pathetic really.
>
> Yes, but the usenet Linux community isn't the only available, and this is
> where you find most of the "elite" users with that view. The REAL problem
> with Linux is that there aren't an incredible amount of preconfigured
Linux
> boxes for home use (compared to the numbers for MS). If there was a
higher
> number of easily available home Linux boxes already configured, and they
> had customer support departments that know as much about Linux as Windows,
> it would be a lot easier to get started. Most of the problem is getting
> Linux setup, and getting all the hardware working, which is difficult for
> non-computer oriented folk. (And some Linux users as well as Windows
users
> look down on these people, unfortunately). Actually using something like
> KDE 2.0, or Gnome is not that tough once it's setup properly. My
> computer-despising fiance has no trouble using KDE 2.0 for her everyday
> usage (email & word processing).
Frankly, I think that setuping linux is the easiest part of the
installation.
About the only thing that is hard in it is the repartitioning part.
And using it for normal tasks like browsing and email and word processing is
very simple as well.
The problem start when you try to go a little beyond this.
Due to a very steep learning curve, most users will simply give it up,
saying it's too hard, and will never get their computer to its full
potential.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andy Newman)
Subject: Re: C++ is very alive!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:07:50 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Pan wrote:
>mlw is right when he says that there is a difference between an engineer
>and a programmer. A programmer is an end user relative to some
>engineers.
Yep. Someone has to create the systems that programmers use.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andy Newman)
Subject: Re: C++ is very alive!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:07:50 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>Web applets should be written in microcode for a virtual cpu engine
>which is written in Java. Anything less than that is just laziness :-)
Jeez, lazy arse programmers... Haven't you heard of FPGAs?
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:03:14 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:905ig3$qr2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:1SrV5.102$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:905e4n$npr$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:C5qV5.88$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:90417b$4tc0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >
> > > > > "mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > In article <903r8k$594r$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende
Rahien
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > >> In article <8vulpn$5pbkd$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende
> > Rahien
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > > >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > >> >> In article <3a228f5a$0$14371$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Conrad
> > > > > Rutherford
> > > > > > >> >wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> >how would you know?
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> I think he knows what's run better for him, which is what
he
> > > said.
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> It's nothing like :
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> >That's like saying you run Linux cause it kicks DOS
6.22's
> > ass.
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> at all.
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> wa waaaaa.
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> Besides, we really don't care whether Ayende likes the
> colour
> > > > > > >> >> scheme of DOS7.3 or DOS8 or whatever this will be.
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >There isn't, nor ever was, DOS in NT line.
> > > > > > >> >You are thinking 9x line.
> > > > > > >> >A very common mistake with linadvocates, it seems.
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Shame really, 'cos the only thing I would actually use
> > > > > > >> Microsoft OS for in my own time would be game playing. And
> > > > > > >> that's only possible with DOS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >That is just about the most ridicilous, inaccurate, and idiotic
> > > > statement
> > > > > > >that I've heard since I last read Aaron's posts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Que? My, we are getting personal. Well, 'tis true. I do not
> > > > > > run MS OSs in my spare time except under _exceptional_
> > circumstances.
> > > > > > The only one I know of is for a game which will only run under
> > > > > > dos. That's that. It's a fact, and I don't really see how you
> > > > > > can call it inaccurate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because not even a moderatedly successful game came out in the
last
> > > three
> > > > > years or so that didn't run on windows?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You have to remember, Ayende, that a lot of folks still play games
> that
> > > were
> > > > written before Win95.
> > >
> > > I know, GoldenAxe is my favoraite old time game.
> > > I can still play it, your point?
> >
> > Simply, a rebuttle to the "...only possible with DOS" and "Because not
> even
> > a moderatedly successful game came out in the last three years or so
that
> > didn't run on windows?" portions of the thread.
> >
> > If you want to have fun with an old DOS game, find the original IBM-PC
> port
> > of Centipede and play it on a modern machine. It's hillarious!
>
> It isn't refuting my arguement. It isn't even close.
> What game in the *last three years* run on DOS and was even moderatedly
> successful?
> Mark's original statement was that he couldn't run games on non-dos
> platform.
>
> Qoute:
> Shame really, 'cos the only thing I would actually use
> Microsoft OS for in my own time would be game playing. And
> that's only possible with DOS.
>
>
> You've failed to answer my question, what even modertedly successful game
> (for the PC) came out in the last three years that didn't run on Windows?
LOL, I'm not arguing that fact. Please unwad your panties. The point is he
may be discussing games that fall outside of that criteria. If he ISN'T then
you're right and he's wrong. You may want to ask him about the games to
which he is referring. That would bring this thing into perspective.
--
Tom Wilson
Go home Al....
Game over, man!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andy Newman)
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:15:51 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Russ Lyttle wrote:
>PVCS is/was, I thought, a PC version of CVS. It's been while since I've used
>it.
No PVCS is quite an old product - Polytron Version Control System (I used it
over 12 years ago on MS-DOS) and it appeared very much to be inspired by RCS
but totally reimplemented with a few twists to achieve portability between
various platforms popular at the time (Unix, MS-DOS, VMS etc..). When I used
PVCS it was essentially a clone of RCS, no concept of collections.
------------------------------
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