Linux-Advocacy Digest #238, Volume #30 Tue, 14 Nov 00 18:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Journaling FS Question (Was: Re: Of course, there is a down side...) ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (.)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (.)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: NT/2000 true multiuser? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: NT/2000 true multiuser? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: NT/2000 true multiuser? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? (Goldhammer)
Re: Debian Sells Stale Beef (.)
Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Journaling FS Question (Was: Re: Of course, there is a down side...)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:38:18 -0500
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:NQFP5.125933$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > > The thing you are missing is that journaling does not mean you won't
> > > lose anything, it means that the operations are ordered so you can
> > > always recover to a consistent state. Journaling metadata means that
> > > the directory structure and free space tables are always consistent
> > > or at least recoverable even though any particular file's contents
> > > may not be correct. Journaling everything usually requires writing
> > > changes to a log, performing the real update, then clearing the log
> > > so that incomplete operations remain in the log and can be completed
> > > during recovery. Making this set of steps come close to the speed
> > > of non-journaled operations is non-trivial.
> >
> > Sounds like NTFS does it.
> >
> > http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q101/6/70.ASP
>
> There is really not enough information in that article to tell whether
> the log is just metadata or not, and I doubt if the omissions were
> accidental.
If Microsoft doesn't say they have it...then..they don't.
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:45:25 +1300
> Not to mention the OS's that don't report uptimes at all,
> such as OS/2, OS/390, SunOS4, NetWare...
Dunno about the others, but Netware most certainly reports its uptime, in
one of the most commonly used netware tools too (MONITOR).
Have you used netware, or were you fumbling for more OS names?
Hey, the BASIC on the C64 didn't report its uptime, you could've
mentioned that instead.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:42:23 -0500
JS/PL wrote:
>
> "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:lRFP5.19683$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> >
> > > Oh, yes.
> > > If Whistler is as good from 2K as 2K is from NT & 98, then Linux\Unix
> has
> > a
> > > reason to be *really* afraid,
> >
> > Note that what you are really saying here is how bad NT and 98 really are.
>
> Compared to Windows 2000, Win9x is shit. But if I was forced to choose, I'd
> still choose it (9x) over Linux though, even as a webserver.
> There's probably more choice in webservers under Win9x although I haven't
> verified that. One nice one is
> http://www.sambar.com
>
> > Not everyone is going to forget that - especially the people still
> > using them.
>
> After using Windows.Net no one will care how crash prone 9x was.
This is the same camp that in 1994 was claiming that "[Lose]3.1 is stable",
and in 1995 was claiming, "[Lose]95 is stable, unlike that crappy [Lose]3.1"
and in 1998 was claiming, "[Lose]98 is stable, ulike that crappy [Lose]95"
Now...they are claiming, "[Lose]2000 is stable, unlike that crappy [Lose]98"
Spot the recurring lie.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:46:16 +1300
> > It appears that MS isn't so eager to have users measure
> > uptime of their stuff, isn't it?
>
> Why should they be?
I think we all know for sure why they shouldn't...
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:44:44 -0500
JS/PL wrote:
>
> "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:lRFP5.19683$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> >
> > > Oh, yes.
> > > If Whistler is as good from 2K as 2K is from NT & 98, then Linux\Unix
> has
> > a
> > > reason to be *really* afraid,
> >
> > Note that what you are really saying here is how bad NT and 98 really are.
>
> Compared to Windows 2000, Win9x is shit. But if I was forced to choose, I'd
> still choose it (9x) over Linux though, even as a webserver.
> There's probably more choice in webservers under Win9x although I haven't
> verified that. One nice one is
> http://www.sambar.com
>
> > Not everyone is going to forget that - especially the people still
> > using them.
>
> After using Windows.Net no one will care how crash prone 9x was.
>
> > > and by the release of the system *after*
> > > whistler, I wouldn't be surprise if those a minority even on the server.
> >
> > Also note that MS only improves things when they have to in response
> > to competition. If you really want them to produce a great system you
> > should be encouraging the competitors to force the issue.
>
> There always has been competition, that's why the price's have remained the
> same while Windows.* has been improving with each release. The next home
> version of Windows will put the competition to shame.
"The next version..."
is that, like, the Microsoft theme-song?
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NT/2000 true multiuser?
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:47:51 -0500
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:19GP5.7831$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Similarly, what happens if you have DISPLAY set for a machine you are not
> > logged into? Does your app pop up on someone elses computer if you
> mistype
> > the IP address and that IP happens to have an X server running?
>
> Yes, but modern telnet logins propagate the DISPLAY setting transparently,
But ONLY if the other display has "xhost" opened up to allow windows
to displayed from any other host.
> and DISPLAY on your end controls where you current window connects
> as well.
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NT/2000 true multiuser?
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:49:30 -0500
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:BfGP5.19697$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:lRBP5.7789$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > Oh yes I forgot about that. However, you can't actually do a great
> deal
> > > can
> > > > you? If you run notepad, it pops up as a window on the main screen!
> > >
> > > No, it doesn't. Try running an X program from a telnet login, what
> > happens?
> >
> > On all my machines if the remote has permission to open a window back
> > on the display that is the parent of the telnet session, it will do it
> > automatically. Isn't that the way things are supposed to work?
>
> Really? Now how do you do that without an X server?
>
> Multiuser has nothing to do with what the client is running. For instance,
> what if I telnet to a Unix server from a Mac or Windows box without an X
> server? Does that make Unix no longer multi-user because the client can't
> support a remote GUI?
Look, you ignorant clod....
Whether a machine is runing a GUI or not has NOTHING to do with
being multi-user.
PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF BILL GATES' ASS!
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Date: 14 Nov 2000 22:53:26 GMT
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:53:15 +0100, Mig wrote:
>Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>OO has nothing to do with the language chosen...
On the contrary, it has a hell of a lot to do with the language chosen.
Programming OO in a language that has built in support for it.
Here's a quote from Bjarne (pulled from the GTK-- page)
======
Have you seen C code that simulates class hierarchies, parameterized types, or
exceptions? Such code tend to be a complete mess of pointers, casts, and
macros. In C++, such code can be clean and simple. Most importantly, the
constructs have well-specified semantics rather than just comments explaining
the intent of code fragments. What has happened is that the complexity has been
transferred from the code to the language definition (and compiler).
Bjarne Stroustrup
======
And this is why using a language with built in OO matters. Implementing OO
by hand is very difficult, and it's best left to the compiler.
> its more a way of
>thinking its also a methodology.
Techniques such as polymorphism and inheritence require gruesome hacks in C,
but are trivial to implement in C++ (or Eiffel or Smalltalk or Python or
Perl or Java ... )
>Is the toolkit really that important? Basiclly it implements just the UI..
No, the Gnome development also includes glib which implements several generic
programming constructs (like linked lists and hashes). Likewise, Qt also
does this (in fact Qt includes replacements for the entire standard library.
You could write a Qt application that doesn't use the standard library).
Both also include SAX implementations (for XML parseing). QT also includes
a DOM based XML class module.
In the typical GNOME or Qt app, the program uses your chosen development
framework from the core upwards.
It's misleading to say that "KDE" or "GNOME" is a "GUI toolkit". It's more
correct to say that glib/gtk+/gnome/(lots of other libraries) and qt/kde
are development frameworks. (nb: qt includes a bunch of stuff that the gnome
framework implements as seperate libraries)
>you could have your functionallity in librarries coded in C or am i wrong
>here?
I'm not sure what you mean, but developing with Glib/GTK+/GNOME requires a lot
of pseudo-OO C code, and the result is a diabolical mess.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NT/2000 true multiuser?
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:51:34 -0500
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:s4JP5.7854$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > > > Multiuser has nothing to do with what the client is running. For
> > > instance,
> > > > what if I telnet to a Unix server from a Mac or Windows box without an
> X
> > > > server? Does that make Unix no longer multi-user because the client
> > can't
> > > > support a remote GUI?
> > >
> > > Most unix boxes run just fine without X even locally, so X obviously is
> > > not a requirement for multiuser access. You can access just about
> > > everything in character mode. On windows, there is often no character
> > > mode equivalent for GUI programs so telnet access may not be useful.
> >
> > And there are command line equivelants for ghostview?
>
> Of course. Ghostview is an unnecessary wrapper for ghostscript
> whose only use is for viewing in graphics mode. If you don't have
> graphics mode you can still use the underlying tool to manipulate
> postscript.
>
> > Netscape works in
> > command line mode?
>
> That's called lynx.
>
> > What about the KDE utilities?
>
> Again, mostly unnecessary GUI wrappers around work that can be
> done in character mode.
>
> > Most of the command line programs available for Unix are also available in
> > Win32 ports. If you want to do work through telnet, you can most
> certainly
> > do the same work on Unix or Win2k.
>
> But can you manage the machine itself? I have no trouble doing anything
> short of pushing the reset button on a remote unix box through telnet,
> including updating software, tweaking device driver settings and the
> like. How do you deal with installshield/setup on a windows box?
> It is also very handy to have files containing some canned sets of
> command line commands to do particular things that take a lot of input.
> For unix systems I just save them in a file and paste the relevant lines
> into a telnet window to get them done. I see windows guys saving
> screen dumps of systems, then paging through a mess of them punching
> all the same buttons again and again. Is there a better way than that?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Note for someone who uses the mis-named Windows...
LOSEdows... is more like it
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion.
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:54:00 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:56:16 GMT, "Les Mikesell"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >fdisk?
> >>
> >> What's so hard about that?
> >> It's included. We were talking about what Admin tools are needed that
> >> are not included.
> >
> >You buy a larger hard disk an want to copy your existing setup
> >over to it. How do you do it? With Linux you would connect
> >it up, 'cp -a' all your partitions to their new destinations, swap drives,
> >boot with a floppy and run lilo to be back in business. Cloning
> >an existing setup to a new machine is equally trivial.
>
> Assuming you know how to do all of that under Linux. I don't. Under
Translation: Clair is ignorant of even the most basic procedures.
Clue for the fucking clueless:
just because YOU are unaware of standard SIMPLE solution does
not make them cease to exist.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Goldhammer)
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:58:46 GMT
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:00:03 -0500, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I use Linux all the time, I think it is a great system. I maintain a
>Windows box, but it is never used except as a TV or for Lego Mindstorms
>for my son. At work, I am fortunate in that I can use Linux.
>
>The one problem I have with many of Open Source people is this sort of
>emotional dislike for C++.
>
>I use C++ all the time, I can't even understand why someone would start
>a non-trivial project using C. C++ is a superset of C. Most C code will
>compile fine with C++, the exceptions being borderline constructs which
>are probably bad form anyway.
>
>This is not a troll! I am being serious and sincere. I am a software
>engineer / architect professionally, and I have had to argue this point
>many times with some of guys we hire. It is my role to make sure the
>right decisions are made.
>
>Under what circumstances is "C" a better choice than "C++?"
>(excluding backward compatibility in an existing product)
In comp.lang.c, the question "is C++ a superset of C" has been
discussed to death, and the result is a unanimous "no".
For more information, please check out some of the posts
by Kaz Kylheku on Deja, especially the thread with Bjarne.
For a long time, C++ was shoved down the throats of
many researchers who are not primarily software developers.
I mean, for instance, scientists who did all their work
in Fortran. I have personally seen the effects of this.
I have been there when company executives gave the order
to migrate to C++. What happened? Well, a lot of guys
had to take classes, and then re-write all their code
in C++. This paradigm of "reusable C++ code" (which is
mostly bullshit) gripped everyone's imagination. Well, guess
what. Now that the C++ rave seems to be quieting down, those
same scientists scrapped their C++ code and are going back
to Fortran. Why? Show me C++ constructs which have
achieved the kind of code re-use as the Fortran subroutine.
Some of these subroutines have a 30+ year history of
being re-used by thousands of people.
So, from a psychological perspective, it is to be
expected that some form of backlash against C++
is exhibited by those that were burned by it. And
I don't know any group of people who's lives were
made more hellish by C++ advocacy than Fortran users
and numerical methods specialists. Perhaps, during the
course of their commercial careers, something
similar happened to a lot of OSS developers.
Funny thing is, those same executives who were once
forcing C++ on everyone are now doing the same thing
with Java.
--
Don't think you are. Know you are.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: Debian Sells Stale Beef
Date: 14 Nov 2000 23:02:42 GMT
Ioi Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So much about the most open Linux distribution on the planet. They are
> not even open about when they make the CD.
Fucking download the ISO from debian's site, you moron. You can get
any version you want.
=====.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion.
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:00:19 -0500
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> "Tore Lund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > > > Under
> > > > Windows best thing would be install new disk with the software that
> > > > comes with it (partitioning program) and re-install from the image CD
> > > > included with the machine.
> > >
> > > Then it could take weeks to install all your software on top of that.
> >
> > This is completely trivial to do under Windows 95/98 (not sure about
> > Win2K). You have your old disk in C: and a new, formatted disk in D:.
> > Make sure all files are visible in Windows Explorer, then copy and paste
> > everything EXCEPT c:\windows\win386.swp to the new disk. That's it.
> > You can now swap disks, move jumpers and boot again.
> >
> > (Note: This is a VERY brief description for people who understand what
> > they are doing. But it really is that simple...)
Note that Tore didn't indicate how the bootsector on C: is supposed
to get copied on to D:
>
> And you just ignore all those "can't open" file errors during such a
> copy and hope it isn't anything you need? Anything running or
> open will fail to copy.
And of course...the fact that they are currenty running indicates that
they ARE something that is of some importance.
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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