Linux-Advocacy Digest #238, Volume #34 Sun, 6 May 01 00:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Windos is *unfriendly* (Terry Porter)
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Windos is *unfriendly* (Terry Porter)
Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux a Miserable Consumer OS ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windos is *unfriendly* (Terry Porter)
Re: Yet another IIS security bug ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Linux a Miserable Consumer OS (Terry Porter)
Re: Linux disgusts me (Terry Porter)
Re: Linux advocacy or Windows bashing? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: De we need (or is there) a GPL Legal Defense Fund ? ("Weevil")
Re: To Aaron ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Windos is *unfriendly*
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 06 May 2001 03:07:27 GMT
On Sat, 05 May 2001 10:59:12 GMT,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>> > Linux and Unix geeks, stay away !! :)
>> > Been mucking around for months with w98se and w2k to get the 2 machines
>> > networked, also trying to rig both onto one internet connection. Tried all
>> > those "you beaut" apps like Winproxy, Wingate etc., trying to follow the
>> > EASY instal & forget stuff, resulting in more frustration than coffee at
>> > hand....
>> > W98 dropping the network constantly resulting in endless logon/logoffs, 98
>> > and 2k not talking on the same level, bugger it.
>>
>> Tell us again Wintrolls, how "easy" Windos is to set up ?
>
> Funny I managed to do it ten minutes of faffing around.
Well the poor (average) Windos user above couldnt, perhaps your
degrees helped out here ?
> I even managed to
> get Linux to talk to Windows (though it's a bit of struggle).
Yeah I know, and while Windos keeps perverting standards it
won't get any easier.
What are we having on our network today, Netbui or Netbios?
>
> --
> Pete
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 03:10:38 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> By "in theory" I meant to exclude such moronic ideas as those coming
> from you right now. This "here is code" is THEORY. PRACTICE is when
> you make a real program that real people use.
So ask any software company if in practice they wait for all components
to be finished before writing any other components that use their
interfaces.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 03:10:39 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> No real-world software has EVER been written to an *API* that doesn't
> "exist".
Of course it is - and is probably the typical practice for projects small
enough to not need a formal spec. You just write the main program
using functions/methods that you implement later after seeing exactly
what they need to do.
> If you write the program and say "some day their will be a
> library that..." then you have created the API.
But it didn't exist until you wrote it as part of the main program.
> Whether you documented,
> coded, or 'implemented' it first is entirely irrelevant, you've defined
> it enough to use it, so it exists. You cannot use an API that doesn't
> exist.
Chicken, egg. Egg, chicken.
> Nor is coding in a library the only thing which can be called
> "implementation".
I don't think anyone is arguing that point.
> This isn't a situation of my ignorance of programming; I've explained
> that already several times, and don't understand why it is so hard to
> understand; you'd think programmers would be smart enough to figure it
> out after a dozen exchanges! The question has nothing to do with
> programming, it isn't a matter of what is or is not possible in
> programming, and it's getting to the point where programmers appear
> particularly ill-equipped to understand the *COPYRIGHT ISSUES* involving
> derivative works, and the FSF's claim, which does stand up however much
> you waste my time arguing against a point you don't grasp.
No one is equipped to understand the FSF's claim because it is an
extreme strech from anything defined by law. The closest literary
example would be something that references another work that you
must separately obtain the right to use. For example, consider a
description of a meal or menu where the recipes are not included
but the cookbooks containing them are listed instead - or perhaps
a playlist of songs which are covered by their own copyrights.
According to the FSF position, you would not be able to make the
reference to a covered work without permission of its copyright
holder. However, the way everyone else sees it is that anyone
can make the reference without permission, but the end user must
separately obtain the right to use the other works in order to use
them. To complete the meal, you need to obtain the cookbook(s)
containing the recipes; to play the playlist you must obtain the
songs; to run the program you must obtain the referenced libraries
and the right to use them.
The catch here for the FSF position is that GPL'd libraries are freely
obtainable and explicitly permit unrestricted use once you have them.
> The MOST you can say is that the position has not been FULLY tested in
> court. It's a lame excuse for a position, but at least it is better
> than just saying "the judge was wrong; he doesn't understand copyright",
No, you can say that the position is unlike any other and does not
resemble anything mentioned in the law. Of course that still does
not eliminate the possibility that a court could be convinced to
agree with it but there is no reason to expect it.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 03:10:39 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >An API is not complete without the documentation of what its function
does.
>
> You mean the library won't work if a programmer makes a function call
> unless the function is documented?
He means that the program must be expected to break when you upgrade
the library to the next version if you use anything beyond what is
documented. If you link statically that might not be a problem.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 03:10:39 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >The GPL does not allow for any non-GPL'd part, making no distinction
> >about between component types.
>
> Yet when I point out that neither does copyright, you seem to miss the
> point. Why is that?
Because copyright allows you to obtain the right to use two different
things separately, under different terms, and use them together as
is the case when you obtain a program that uses functions from
a dynamic library or source code that you link yourself to a library
which you are allowed to use. The FSF wants to claim that your
right to use one component is somehow affected by the other. Unless
you copy something that you don't already have the right to copy there
is no basis in copyright law to support that claim.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Windos is *unfriendly*
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 06 May 2001 03:14:39 GMT
On Sat, 05 May 2001 11:04:26 GMT,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <9ctqoc$2hu3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>>
>> Perhaps a bit unbalanced, don't you think Terry? Ever occurred to you that
>> this Motorcycle guy perhaps needed to RTFM on general PC setup and such?
Of course he did need to RTFM, no matter how MS tells the poor punters
that Windos is *easy*.
>> (using months to network two WinPCs - really impressive!)
Yep, but remember its Windos, and networking has always been
difficult with that OS.
>
> What did you expect? This is a linux advocacy group where everything
> linux is seen through rose tinted glasses.
Of course.
> Mind you, judging by the way
> the commercial companies trying to make a go of linux, maybe its brown
^^^^ exploit
> tinted glasses.
Comercialism and Linux OS sales **dont** mix.
>
> --
> Pete
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: 6 May 2001 12:03:49 +1000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Windows has always present me with a dialog telling me daylight saving is
>in effect and this is the new time. I either accept or reject the change.
>No hacks required.
I seem to recall that what the dialogue says is, at least in some versions
of Windows, along the lines of "Time has been changed, please verify that
this was correctly done". And it was a simple information box, i.e. no
"OK" and "Cancel" buttons, but just one "OK" button.
In other words "We did something. Please fix it if we screwed up!"
Bernie
--
Tyranny is always better organized than freedom
Charles Peguy
French poet and essayist
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux a Miserable Consumer OS
Date: 6 May 2001 12:15:11 +1000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>Linux was/is and will continue to be a miserable failure as a consumer
>desktop OS until it wakes up and starts offering an end result that is
>superior instead of an inferior result based upon theoretical superior
>technologies.
>Consumers want instant gratification and Linux is way out in left
>field as far as that is concerned.
Which one is it --- superior end result, or instant gratification? I.e.
LaTeX or WinWord?
Bernie
--
If I am a great man, then all great men are frauds
Andrew Bonar Law
British Prime Minister 1922-23
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Windos is *unfriendly*
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 06 May 2001 03:21:48 GMT
On Sat, 05 May 2001 15:33:38 -0700, GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Well Pete, I don't know what you'd do, but Wife and I are going to
> remove Win98Se off of the HP Pavillion and try RedHat 7.1. I can't see
> buying a new computer just to get XP when the current machines only
> problem is the Win98SE. There's nothing wrong with the hardware so why
> through it out for XP? We don't need it for demanding games, just
> business software. Win98SE has been nothing but a major headache in
> getting things done.
Hey Greycloud, what do you think about getting another HDD and using that
to get used to Linux, before trashing Windos ?
If you do it that way, then you can take your time and ease into
Linux at a leisurely pace.
Id go so far as to recommend making up a new pc minus monitor, mouse
and kybd, and fitting a couple of NE2000 el cheapo NIC's, because
then you can even run both boxes, fit samba, and migrate all your
windows~.001 data files over to the Linux box in time :)
Do you have a good book like 'Running Linux" for reference ?
Just a few thoughts :)
>
> --
> V
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Yet another IIS security bug
Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 03:25:33 GMT
"Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> For the record: I work for a bank. To be exact, I work for the ING Group.
> While I cannot speak for the server side of things, it is true that on
> the desktops we (at least my division) were an OS/2 shop for a long time.
> We're now slowly switching to NT. Despite being pleasantly surprised at
> its stability,
Remember you are probably coming in at about sp6 or so. Any assumptions
about instability before that would have been for good reasons.
> it is still a pain because of certain assumptions in UI
> design, which are just plain brain dead (like switching focus to the
> desktop when you close a window. I am a touch typist, so I consistently
use
> alt-F4, only to have to use the mouse to refocus on a new window).
I hate to defend them, but what's wrong with alt-tab?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Linux a Miserable Consumer OS
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 06 May 2001 03:30:42 GMT
On Sun, 06 May 2001 03:01:56 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 06 May 2001 01:07:58 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
> wrote:
>
>
>>Wouldn t know a decent Linux app if it bit his ass off.
>
> That's because I have yet to see one.
One can't see at all while wearing Winglasses (tm).
>
>
>>To this Wintroll, the world is Winaudio, nothing more.
>
>
> No. The world is applications I want/need to use and even excluding
> DAW ones,
You said recently that apart from your audio apps, you only
use **two** apps.
> Linux is in the dumps as far as quality/useful applications
> are concerned.
FUD
>
> You can barely give away that Freshmeat list.
Not to Wintrolls like you, that's for sure.
On the other hand if Linux charged for the apps
on Freshmeat, lemmings like you would cue down the
street to buy them.
>
>
>>
>>Kind Regards
>>Terry
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Linux disgusts me
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 06 May 2001 03:34:07 GMT
On Sun, 06 May 2001 02:57:21 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, 05 May 2001 21:08:46 +0000, "Gary Hallock"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Talk to Terry Porter.
>>>
>>> He's been using Linux since somewhere back in the Jurassic period and
>>> denies all of these problems.
>>>
>>> BTW you "can" change the font size to 100dpi but run the risk of
>>> aborting the entire system is you don't know what you are doing.
>>>
>>
>>I've never had that problem. Of course you never had either.
>
> Try messing up the line you have to edit to change from 75dpi to
> 100dpi and see what happens.
Hahahah try remaning win.ini to fred.ini .... moron.
>
>
>
>>> Search on "Font De-Uglification" for information because these yo-yo's
>>> have a How-To for just about everything.
>>
>>100 dpi and anti-alias fonts are standard on Redhat 7.1. 100 dpi has
>>been there ever since I can remember.
>>
>>Gary
>
> 1. So are 10000 other packages.
Using that argument, one would never read a dictionary.
> 2. You are assuming the person knows how to use them and change the
> appriate entries to activate them.
How-To's exist for every area of Linux. You can read cant you ???????
> 3.Typical Linux
Typical :-
"Steve,Mike,Heather,Simon,teknite,keymaster,keys88,Sewer Rat,
S,Sponge,Sarek,piddy,McSwain,pickle_pete,Ishmeal_hafizi,Amy,
Simon777,Claire,Flatfish+++,Flatfish"
>
> Flatfish
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Linux advocacy or Windows bashing?
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 23:50:44 -0400
Salvador Peralta wrote:
>
> Ian Davey quoth:
>
> >>Any damn fool can bash Microsoft ..... but try to put up a
> >>compelling case for the use of Linux, would be a more challenging
> >>task, at least for the majority of posters here.
> >
> > So, are you going to do some Linux advocacy then?
>
> Making a business case for Linux is easy. Here's an example:
>
> A few weeks ago, our company's ceo decided that she wanted a search
> engine for our web site. She asked our 4 developer groups (
> proprietary 4gl, lotus, windows, linux ) to look into it.
>
> Our Lotus person spent several hours researching domino extended
> search. The product is only available for nt as a server solution,
> which is incompatible with our mainframe architecture, is only
> supported on windows clients, and until recently, would not work with
> a web-based interface. The cost with proper licensing, and
> hardware was in the tens of thousands. More if we required external
> hosting, which was recommended.
>
> Our 4gl doesn't have good support for many of the things needed for a
> web-based search engine ( reg ex, directory spidering, etc ) and that
> development team said as much.
>
> Our windows people recommended a custom in-house solution using
> sequel on new hardware, the cost of which, including licensing was
> roughly $12000 plus development time. They did not have a
> recommendation for indexing the site, hosted on a midrange mainframe,
> but were "aware" of add-on products that could do this.
>
> Our linux people used grep -r "x\|y\|z" *html > file.txt to extract
> the needed info, used sed and awk to strip the tags and split the
> output file records from 4 lines to one in a delimited format, then
> exported the data file to mysql. Next, wrote a simple routine to
> index the file based on word-order of key terms, and an extraction
> routine in perl. The whole prototype was completed in roughly 4-5
> hours including preparation for the meeting, planning for a
> transition to production, and setting up a demo -- less time than
> some of the other groups spent researching solutions and preparing
> notes for the meeting -- and the longest part of development was
> parsing the site, not coding. No additional hardware needed, and
> fully portable from a pc-server to our production mainframe.
>
> Probably one of the easiest technology decisions our company ever
> made was using linux in that case.
i just wanted to see that again.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: De we need (or is there) a GPL Legal Defense Fund ?
Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 03:50:54 GMT
Mikkel Elmholdt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9cuot0$1255$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Flacco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:IFhI6.5176$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > what can a lightweight GPL author do if a corp decides to use his GPL'd
> > code contrary to the terms of the GPL?
> >
> > Is there a legal fund established anywhere that covers this
(inevitable?)
> > eventuality?
> >
> > Are there legal analyses of GPL available anywhere?
>
> Most of the replies to this post concerns themselves with legal aspects.
> There is however some more practical issues that could void the GPL.
Before
> you can take a case to court, you have to find out about someone mis-using
> your GPL'ed code. And how are you going to do that? A company bound on GPL
> misuse would probably not go around and brag about it. If your code is
> wrapped up in a binary distribution, you are not going to find out just by
> looking at it. And it would also be easy to tweak the code to deflect any
> binary comparisons, just by switching function order, changing a for()
loop
> to a while() loop here and there, change variable and function names
> globally, change names of executables, and such.
Good points.
On the other hand, if I were the author of (to randomly pluck an example out
of the air) an implementation of a TCP/IP stack and I suspected Microsoft of
using my code for their own stack (beginning in Win95, say), I would make it
known that I was considering suing them for 50 gazillion dollars, and that I
would richly reward any Microsoft insiders who could bring me legally useful
evidence.
The 50 gazillion dollar figure would be based on the fact that virtually
everything Microsoft does now is geared toward the Internet, and without a
TCP/IP stack, all their internet business would be impossible. And since
they stole *my* stack...
I bet it would not be impossible to come up with the evidence.
> I feel that the GPL is more like a gentleman's agreement than a iron-clad
> clause you can take to court anyday.
>
> Mikkel
I believe it started out that way in spirit. Microsoft's recent attacks on
it might be hardening it into something more, now.
--
Weevil
================================================================
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough [for breaking encryption schemes]
would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers."
-- Bill Gates
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Aaron
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 23:55:05 -0400
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> > What "the rhetoric" are you referring to?
> >
> > >That has been obvious for a long time but I guess it is too much to ask
> > >politicians to say what they really mean. There is no such thing as a
> > >"level playing field" or "free trade", never has been, probably never
> > >will be.
> >
> > Not in an absolute sense, of course not. These are abstractions,
> > metaphors, even. Tariffs and subsidies are used to ensure a level
> > playing field (its effects on those outside the playing field are not > of direct
>concern) to allow free trade (within that playing field), as >I've
> > said. Sometimes they do that well and sometimes they're used
> > counter-productively. Whining about politicians as a handy "them" to
> > demonize is just rhetoric.
> How is New Zealand exported lamb to America not on a level playing
> field? is the US finally, after 10 years realising the damage from
> pursuing the strong dollar policy? maybe, instead of giving out
> subsidies they should reduce taxes, reduce tarriffs, and actually get
> some marketing going to encourage people to buy "US Lamb". It doesn't
> exactly take a rocket scientist to sort that one out.
It does if you're a member of the Democrat party.
Reduce Taxes??? Not the Democrats.
Reduce Tarriffs??? Not the Democrats (they play it on "class envy" lines)
Marketing???? Anethema to Democrats.
We'll see what happens now that they have lost the White House, and their
majority in the House of Representatives, and have only a split Senate.
>
> Since 1984, tariffs and subsidies have gradually been removed.
> Subsidies went in one foul swoop, and when the farmers complained, the
> government said, "tough luck, your free ride has now ended", and they
> were re-elected, then they gradually removed tariffs, old, inefficient
> businesses close, whilst new, more efficient, niche market businesses
> opened.
>
> Very soon, the US will face stiff competition from China, who will be,
> in 10 years time, the US's equal. It either the US addresses these
> issues now, or get hammered by China later.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
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