Linux-Advocacy Digest #649, Volume #31 Mon, 22 Jan 01 04:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Poor Linux ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: Windows 2000 Datacenter Server does support the "five nines" ("kiwiunixman")
Re: Designed for Windows! ("kiwiunixman")
Re: So much for Linux being more Difficult than Windows ("kiwiunixman")
Re: New Microsoft Ad :-) ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: I just can't help it! ("Erik Funkenbusch")
I am preparing to teach a Linux class and I am soliciting advice (Jeff Silverman)
Re: Poor Linux (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: Games? Who cares about games? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why "uptime" is important. ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: Poor Linux ("kiwiunixman")
Re: Multiple standards don't constitute choice (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: Games? Who cares about games? ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: OpenSource Question (Donn Miller)
Re: Windows curses fast computers (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Windows curses fast computers (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Games? Who cares about games? (Perry Pip)
Re: Loki has trouble playiong their own games under Linux!!!!! (Perry Pip)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Poor Linux
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 06:38:47 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> GAME
> SET
> MATCH.... jerkoff
No comment.
------------------------------
From: "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 Datacenter Server does support the "five nines"
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:02:02 GMT
is that downtime or uptime? I think it could be the first one.
kiwiunixman
"Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:94b1u5$evs$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> This is according to this document posted by Microsoft on 5 December 2000:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/Windows2000/guide/server/solutions/relavail.asp
>
> ---Begin Extract---
>
> The result: Windows 2000 is the most reliable operating system Microsoft
has
> ever produced. A common IT industry term for maximum reliability is "five
> nines," meaning that a server is running 99.999 percent of the time.
(Which
> translates into just 5 minutes downtime over a year.) Although most
> businesses do not need such stringent uptime requirements, a system built
on
> Windows 2000 Datacenter Server can meet this level of reliability.
>
> ---End Extract---
>
> Note that the full document can only be downloaded as a Win32 executable.
>
> No-where for example in this link:
>
>
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/guide/server/solutions/overview/reliabl
> e/default.asp
>
> Does Microsoft say "can meet this level of reliability".
>
> The most Microsoft says in this second link is that "So Microsoft created
> the Datacenter Server Program, which can help you achieve 99.999 percent
> uptime with Windows 2000 Datacenter Server on qualified systems from
> Microsoft OEM partners." Note the "can help" instead of "can".
>
> So there you go. Microsoft has now stated that at least one of its
> Datacenter Server offerings can be 99.999% reliable. I wonder if the
phrase
> "can help" might appear some time soon :-)
>
> Regards,
> Adam
>
>
------------------------------
From: "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Designed for Windows!
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:04:02 GMT
lol
kiwiunixman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:94gcpq$n85$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Hello folks,
> The idea of creating this Linux logo struck me
> when I found my IBM thinkpad with Linux gives
>
> 1. double battery life
> 2. better suspend resume performance (win98 could not ever resume 100%)
> 3. my ricochet 128k never gave 128k on win98...but on linux it gives
> 200-250k! (honestly not exaggeration!)
> 4. ofcourse much better speed performance.
>
>
> have a look and let me know what do you think.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/acme_new/linux-win.gif
>
> -ajay
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: So much for Linux being more Difficult than Windows
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:05:01 GMT
Windows 2000 is no better, can't even install a browser without the need to
reboot.
kiwiunixman
"Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I recently opened an new account with earthlink. After placing the
> order, I waited for an hour, edited a kppp script, logged in and was up
> and running within 1 minute. Today I got the package earthlink sends out
> to all new users. It includes a CD and "Quick Start" guide. The last
> line of the instructions for 95/98/Me is to reboot the computer.
>
> So much for MS operating systems being easier to use than Linux.
> --
> Russ
> <http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
> Not powered by ActiveX
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Microsoft Ad :-)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:32:46 -0500
John & Susie wrote:
>
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/16139.html
> > >
> > > Did I read this correctly?
> > >
> > > Win2K: MTTF 2893 Hours? (120 days)
> > > NT: MTTF 919 Hours? (38 Days)
> > > Win98: MTTF 216 Hours (9 days)
> > >
>
> >
> > The test covers desktop environments, not servers. The average desktop *IS*
> > shutdown at night.
>
> Nonsense. If manufacturing is running 24/7, workstations and their users
> *will* be doing the same.
Which is NOT the environment this was run in.
Lose98 can NOT stay up 216 hours continously, especially not IN USE 24x7.
Not unless you're counting in dog-hours.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I just can't help it!
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:59:34 -0600
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > You keep saying this, but I doubt that it is true. I see many people
> > > > just turn off their monitors when they go home.
> > >
> > > They shouldn't even do that.
> > >
> > > when the monitor goes to power saving mode, it only consumes a couple
> > > of watts...just enough to keep the tube warm so that "turning on" to
> > > display again doesn't add yet another thermal-shock cycle.
> >
> > That's stand-by mode. There's also Sleep mode, which turns off the
monitor
> > almost completely (including the tube circuitry).
>
> You're really a fucking idiot.
>
> If you don't keep the tube circuitry on, then there's NO REASON to
> keep anything on, shit-for-brains.
How narrow your mind is. Enabling the computer to turn the monitor on when
it comes out of sleep mode is a reason.
------------------------------
From: Jeff Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,linux.redhat
Subject: I am preparing to teach a Linux class and I am soliciting advice
Date: 22 Jan 2001 08:24:06 GMT
Hi. I am an experienced Linux/UNIX sysadmin and I am getting ready to teach a class
on Linux for
the Communications Workers of America and WashTech. I am soliciting comments and
suggestions from
people in the Linux community about what I ought to teach.
The students will be adults with some computer experience, most likely in MacOS or
MS-Windows.
I assume that I have to teach them the basics:
1) How to login and how to logout
2) File manipulation commands: cp, mv, rm, rmdir, ln, cat, more, find, grep, sort,
uniq. Also I/O
redirection and pipelines
3) An editor. vi? emacs? Something else? No flame wars, please.
4) Minimal sysadmin stuff - assuming they are going to run their own machines. Is
that a reasonable
assumption? Account management. Minimal security issues. Networking (that's a
mouthful).
It gets more complicated... GUIs. Should I teach KDE? gnome? Motif?
How about shell scripting?
What do beginning users need to know?
Thank you for your time.
--
Jeff Silverman, PC guy, Linux wannabe, Java wannabe, Software engineer, husband,
father etc.
See my website: http://www.commercialventvac.com/~jeffs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Poor Linux
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:25:07 GMT
J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> No S/pidf.
> Could you explain in tangible terms what this acronym
> should do for me?
Sony-Philips Digital Interface, or SP/DIF, as its usually called.
And it works, of course.
>> Mixer not fully functional.
> I see no evidence for that statement.
I don't know either. Certainly I can adjust the various channels, and
there's a separate utility that lets your cross-connect and add
effects and such. Not that I care.
>> No surround sound 4 speakers.
> Hmm, well I have 2 speakers, and like most Linux
> users, I have only 2 ears.
...but if you add two more, you can route e.g. CD audio to your rear
speakers, or whatever. On Linux.
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Games? Who cares about games?
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:28:27 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't know anyone that really plays games on their computers. is
that out of
> the ordinary? When people mention games as an issue, I often wonder why.
>
> I have a Nintendo for games, why would I waste a computer on games?
I play games on my computer. I always have. I've never owned a console,
I think a PC does better graphics than a console.
I'm now in a job that is related to the games industry - in fact, I play
certain games as part of testing the product I'm working on.
The fact that there is a lack of games on Linux is important to me.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why "uptime" is important.
Date: 22 Jan 2001 08:40:09 GMT
Lloyd Llewellyn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: ...but the reason I brought this up in the first place is to make the point
: that, often, up-time is not a critical factor on the desktop. For a majority of
: non-technical users, application availability is; and that's why I cited the web
: page editor example.
: FWIW, I think this thread is instructive in itself. Imagine if a non-technical
: person were to take that big step and give Linux a try. He gets on the
: newsgroups asking about a FrontPage or Dreamweaver analog, explicitly stating
: that he wants a visual design tool. Instead, he is directed to use vi, emacs,
: or even Bluefish for that matter.
: That person is going to sigh, and then he's going to wipe his Linux partition to
: make room for more Windows files.
I agree that application availability is important, and that is
improving all the time.
But if someone is unable or unwilling to investigate the software
available under Linux for his or her needs, and to filter out the
information that isn't relevant, then I'm not quite sure what you
think Linux and/or the free software community are supposed to do
about that.
Furthermore, I question the wisdom of even *trying* to help someone to
create bad (polluted) "Web" pages. To me, that's roughly analogous to
helping someone flush used oil from a car's engine into the public
sewers. The person may not be aware of the tremendous harm this
causes, but since we are, we have the obligation to at least try to
educate him or her regarding this issue, and to make him or her aware
of better alternatives.
In the case of Web design, there is no reason why even a nontechnical
user can't use a text editor in one window and a browser open to the
same file in another, make changes in one window, and preview them in
the other. There's no reason he or she can't or shouldn't learn to
write standard HTML, separating content from presentation. If someone
isn't willing to spend 5 minutes doing so, then I'm not willing to
invest my time to help him or her. I like helping people, but my time
is valuable and limited, so I choose to help those who are willing to
help themselves, rather than those who are not.
Joe
------------------------------
From: "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Poor Linux
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:41:41 GMT
well, what do YOU use it for?
kiwiunixman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 01:29:17 GMT, "kiwiunixman"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >don't use them, so I don't care!
> >
> >kiwiunixman
>
> The word "supported" when using in conjunction with the word Linux
> takes on a whole new meaning.
>
>
> Flatfish
> Why do they call it a flatfish?
> Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Multiple standards don't constitute choice
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:45:07 GMT
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> My point here is that there is no standard. The file open/save dialogs look
> different and act differently.
Funny you should mention that - there are, as I'm sure you have noted
- various different file dialogs under Windows, too. Same task,
different behaviour.
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Games? Who cares about games?
Date: 22 Jan 2001 08:45:27 GMT
Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> I don't know anyone that really plays games on their computers. is that out of
:> the ordinary? When people mention games as an issue, I often wonder why.
:> I have a Nintendo for games, why would I waste a computer on games?
: My view on games for Linux is: don't spend too much worrying about them. But
: it's a good exercise in general, because the principles in creating games may
: be applied to create useful software, like graphics and visualization
: software. Just don't spend too much time worrying about them.
Actually, the advances in 3D hardware and software acceleration
techniques will enable the next quantum leap in user interface design,
so I'm glad they're occurring now.
As a community, we need to do a MUCH better job of boycotting vendors
of 3D "products" that don't include documentation, and other products
produced by these vendors, and if possible those who resell these
products as well. If we do not send the message loudly and clearly
that undocumented "hardware" is completely unacceptable, then who
will?
Joe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 03:48:53 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OpenSource Question
mlw wrote:
> Yes and no. If you guys fund 100% of the development, you can make any decision
> you want. If you intend to use the open source community to help you do your
> development, you must be willing to accept that you can't keep what you are
> doing private.
>
> If you base your work on an existing open source system, then it is wrong to
> take the work or hundreds or thousands and produce something closed source.
That's true, provided they decide to use the GNU license. However,
there's others, such as LGPL and the BSD license. Under the BSD
license, it's possible to take something that was published under that
license, and produce it as a closed-source system. In fact, I believe
that's why Mac OS-X is based on BSD underneath, instead of Linux. If
they were to use Linux, they'd have to include the source code for the
parts of the system protected by the GPL, which at least includes the
Linux kernel.
I don't see why either has to be bad, however. I think both more or
less embrace different philosphies. So, there's a couple different
roads you could follow, depending on what you like. I think that it's
not necessarily bad for companies to produce their own closed-source
software. You're just restricted to the BSD license, that's all.
If you think about it, there's a lot of commerical software that is
closed-source, but based on open source. PSpice is such an example.
Obviously, SPICE is BSD licensed code. I was also told that certain
commercial VLSI CAD programs were based on Magic, but I don't know if
this is true or not. If anyone would know this one, it's Aaron Kulkis.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows curses fast computers
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:40:50 GMT
In article <R8xa6.1220$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No, it's not from the spec. This was simply apples solution, which
seems to
> work for them. Nobody else seems to be doing it that way, at least not
> FreeBSD and probably not Linux, which leads me to believe it's not
quite as
> foolproof as Apple suggests.
You are quite correct, it's from the Apple spec. I had a hunt through
the Linux ide-disk.c code and could find no references to shutting down
the drive - but then its not code I'm exactly all that familiar with.
I'll keep looking.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows curses fast computers
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:37:42 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
spicerun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why would someone write a bios for a 6809 Machine? Apple didn't even
> have a bios per se on their 6502 machines.....
> They did however have firmware and some embedded routines and drivers
> (never guaranteed to be resident at the same
> location) running on their machine, but they never made those routines
> (at least intentionally) accessible as would be seen
> in a 'bios'. In fact, on Apple's old machines, drivers weren't in their
> OS until you plugged in the interface card to the
> peripheral (ie - driver was on a rom on the card).
You're right, I wrote the Bootstrap ROM code for a 6809 machine. Perhaps
BIOS was the wrong name.
These routines lived in the top 4k of the machine, and were memory
resident. They were required by the FLEX OS for it to work.
> I get the distinct feeling that what you are calling a bios is really
> boot code and embedded drivers. It isn't the same
> thing.
BIOS stands for Basic I/O system. That's a pretty close description of
what I wrote.
> What has gotten you into the mode of thinking only in bioses and only
> the Microsoft way (Especially if you were building
> your own Motorola-type platform machines that have no similiarities with
> the intel-type platforms)? I gotta tell you,
> it makes you look really bad as a microprocessor hardware/software
> person, and, reflects badly on other engineers who also
> build their own processor hardware and write the firmware for them.
The Microsoft way did not exist then, so I don't understand why you're
connecting the two things. You're making unusual inferences that simply
aren't there.
> Just for your Info...before you start flaming....I'm one of those guys
> that make a living designing Microprocessor systems, building,
> troubleshooting, and writing the firmware for them...and, depending on
> the customer, either make a proprietary OS or use an available
> OS specified by the customer. I've designed 6502, 8086, 68020, and 604e
> PowerPC Systems, and wrote the firmware for them.
> I think mlw has done all of this too.
I created my machine in 1983. When did you start the above?
> All I have to do is see the Windows Fans/Advocates around my place at
> work. Interesting as an NT machine freezes up how they
> say there's something wrong with the machine because NT doesn't do
> that. Only problem with that is that just about every
> machine at work has froze at one point or another. These Winvocates are
> arrogant, loud, and pathetic and it is a pain to have
> to deal with them in person.
And the Linux advocates here are any less arrogant, loud and pathetic?
When Windows crashes here, do you want to know what our reaction is? "Oh
f*****g c***p Windows!".
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Perry Pip)
Subject: Re: Games? Who cares about games?
Date: 22 Jan 2001 08:55:27 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:41:30 -0500,
mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I have a Nintendo for games, why would I waste a computer on games?
>
By any chance would any of your computers be sitting idle while you
play games on your Nintendo? If so, why waste your money on the
Nintendo??
Perry
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Perry Pip)
Subject: Re: Loki has trouble playiong their own games under Linux!!!!!
Date: 22 Jan 2001 09:00:25 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:31:04 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/2000/4/ns-13122.html
>
This article is dated a year ago, idiot. Since that time XFree 4 w/DRI
has been released and is standard in nearly all dists.
>"How bad, exactly? Ray Schwamberger, a Linux technician for Atipa
>Linux Solutions, spent two hours tweaking and configuring a dozen
>computers at his company's LinuxWorld booth so they could adequately
>run Quake 3 and demo Atipa's Linux PC. "
>
10 minutes per machine?? Of course, now on mosts dists DRI works out
of the box.
------------------------------
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