Linux-Advocacy Digest #700, Volume #33 Thu, 19 Apr 01 10:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: What's the point ("MH")
Re: What's the point ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: What's the point (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Am I f******? HP Photosmart C500 and Win 2000 (John Ridley)
Re: Am I fucked? HP Photosmart C500 and Win 2000 (Karel Jansens)
Re: Am I f******? HP Photosmart C500 and Win 2000 ("Dreamspinner3")
Re: Am I f******? HP Photosmart C500 and Win 2000 ("Dreamspinner3")
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) (Roberto Alsina)
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. (theRadical)
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) (Roberto Alsina)
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) (Roberto Alsina)
Re: What's the point ("Edward Rosten")
Re: What's the point (chrisv)
Re: Am I f******? HP Photosmart C500 and Win 2000 (Donn Miller)
Re: To Eric FunkenBush (Neil Cerutti)
Why linux is good and a complaint about RedHat ("Edward Rosten")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:19:04 GMT
Still unable to grasp a point I see.
And the number of porter posts keeps climbing, and climbing, and climbing,
and ..
Gee, that's a lot of work getting done.
(-;
"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
normal NON snipped
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:41:56 -0500
"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> <snype>
> > > Also, I've read some books on Windows programming. I had to laugh at
> > > how you're supposed to code around the numerous problems in Windows,
> > > like for example, putting a message loop in your program to allow your
> > > app to multitask with other apps better. LOL! How come Linux doesn't
> > > need this? How come I can format a floppy and do other things in
Linux?
> >
> > That's only the case with Windows 3.1. Windows 95 and NT do not require
> > message loops for multitasking.
> >
> > And you can format a floppy and do other things in NT as well.
> How come my Windows 2000 Pro machine comes to a screaching halt when I
> print? or when I format a disk?
It shouldn't do either. It certainly doesn't for me.
> > > There are better things to judge an operating system on than the
endless
> > > ease-of-use issues, because once you've mastered the learning curve of
> > > an OS, reliability and performance become the most important issues.
> >
> > I would have thought productivity would be.
> What has that goto do with it? Linux is easy to use. In an office
> environment all that happens is email gets sent and checked, and letters
> get typed up, hence, all they need running 24/7 is Linux w/ StarOffice
> 5.2
Hmm.. In the offices I work at, they create complex presentations with
embedded spreadsheets and graphics linked to database tables. They generate
mail-merges from million record databases with JPG watermarks. They create
pamphlets and pre-press documents with Pantone colors. They create business
plans with VISIO and various other embedded images with complex table of
contents and indexing schemes.
> > > And unix filesystems are better, because your data isn't scattered all
> > > over your disk with a linked-list data chain. You've got the inode
> > > system with unix filesystems, which is much better than that
linked-list
> > > piece of crap you call FAT.
> >
> > But filesystems like ext2fs are far more brittle when it comes to
improper
> > shutdowns than FAT. On large disks, fsck can take hours to complete
after a
> > power outage, and it can lose quite a bit of data.
> >
> > Where the filesystem is concerned, ext2fs users should not throw stones
in
> > their glass house.
> I don't use ext2fs. I use Reiserfs, and yes, there are some Linux
> purists who refuse to move to Reiserfs because they want to remain
> commerical free, hence, they download gigs of debian crap to prove
> something, aka, "look everyone I got Linux for free", when in actual
> fact, I don't mind shelling out $200 for a piece of software, and as it
> works out, Linux is a superior piece of software when compared to
> Windows.
Reiserfs is still not 100% as I understand it. Still minor bugs and
problems with the kernel.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 00:49:26 +1200
<snype>
> > >
> > > And you can format a floppy and do other things in NT as well.
> > How come my Windows 2000 Pro machine comes to a screaching halt when I
> > print? or when I format a disk?
>
> It shouldn't do either. It certainly doesn't for me.
the machine is a Duron 850 w/ 64MB RAM. Unfortunately it still happens.
I have use Solaris (both sparc and x86), UnixWare 7 and QNX RTP, and
neither of those OS's display that lack of threading.
<snype>
>
> > What has that goto do with it? Linux is easy to use. In an office
> > environment all that happens is email gets sent and checked, and letters
> > get typed up, hence, all they need running 24/7 is Linux w/ StarOffice
> > 5.2
>
> Hmm.. In the offices I work at, they create complex presentations with
> embedded spreadsheets and graphics linked to database tables. They generate
> mail-merges from million record databases with JPG watermarks. They create
> pamphlets and pre-press documents with Pantone colors. They create business
> plans with VISIO and various other embedded images with complex table of
> contents and indexing schemes.
In large corporations, StarOffice is not always a viable solution,
however, in a small business setting, such as a bicyle shop, for
example, StarOffice is more than enough.
<snype>
> > I don't use ext2fs. I use Reiserfs, and yes, there are some Linux
> > purists who refuse to move to Reiserfs because they want to remain
> > commerical free, hence, they download gigs of debian crap to prove
> > something, aka, "look everyone I got Linux for free", when in actual
> > fact, I don't mind shelling out $200 for a piece of software, and as it
> > works out, Linux is a superior piece of software when compared to
> > Windows.
>
> Reiserfs is still not 100% as I understand it. Still minor bugs and
> problems with the kernel.
Haven't had any problems with it, and I have been using it since kernel
2.2.16
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: John Ridley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: rec.photo.digital,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Am I f******? HP Photosmart C500 and Win 2000
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:18:30 -0400
Hitler. Nazis. There, this thread is officially over. Please shut
up.
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:19:08 -0700, "Kevin"
<Raknaman(NoSpam)@charter.net> wrote:
>> > No, you are not f*****, but you are a jackass for posting a subject line
>> > like that. And the people who are defending you are bigger jackasses.
>>
>> Why? It's a perfectly common (ab)use of the word in contemporary
>> English. Why is he a jackass for writing English?
>
>
>Figures an even bigger jackass would think using a subject line like that is
>okay!
>
=====
John Ridley
http://ridley.dyndns.org
------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Am I fucked? HP Photosmart C500 and Win 2000
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:01:48 +0000
John Carter wrote:
>
> Since this is an informational group, how many people would consider
> it a safe place for a 10 year old to look for information about a new
> digital camera?
>
I don't care about other people's 10 year olds. They are not my
responsibility.
> Would you want your child using the word in everyday conversation?
>
Many people use the word "fuck" in everyday conversation. It rarely
refers to the biological act of reproduction.
Many people also use the word "mate" in everyday conversation. It too
rarely refers to copulation.
I don't get your point; are you in fact saying that your children have
to get their education from what they read on the Internet? That you are
such an incompetent parent that you are unable to teach your children
the difference between decent and indecent language? And that you are
even proud of the fact that you are unable to educate your children
yourself?
If that is the case, do yourself (and the rest of the human species) a
favour: get a vasectomy before your accidentally reproduce any further.
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2001 01:52:24 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >In comp.os.linux.misc Kevin <Raknaman(NoSpam)@charter.net> wrote:
> >>> > No, you are not f*****, but you are a jackass for posting a subject line
> >>> > like that. And the people who are defending you are bigger jackasses.
> >>>
> >>> Why? It's a perfectly common (ab)use of the word in contemporary
> >>> English. Why is he a jackass for writing English?
> >
> >
> >> Figures an even bigger jackass would think using a subject line like that is
> >> okay!
> >
> >Figures that an even bigger jackass would think that there something wrong
> >with using the work fuck.
> >
> >Adam
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================================================
"You're the weakest link. Goodb-No, wait! Stop! Noaaarrghh!!!"
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: "Dreamspinner3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: rec.photo.digital,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Am I f******? HP Photosmart C500 and Win 2000
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:59:34 -0500
Reply-To: "Dreamspinner3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
You sound like a very responsible parent. I applaud your efforts.
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:RMsD6.14637$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.misc John Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Since this is an informational group, how many people would consider
> > it a safe place for a 10 year old to look for information about a new
> > digital camera?
>
> > Would you want your child using the word in everyday conversation?
>
> I wouldn't be letting my 10 year old child perusing newsgroups on their
> own. And then, if we encountered this same situation, I would have dealt
> with it in a mature manner than most on here seem to be handling it.
>
> Adam
>
------------------------------
From: "Dreamspinner3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: rec.photo.digital,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Am I f******? HP Photosmart C500 and Win 2000
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:05:02 -0500
Reply-To: "Dreamspinner3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
It always happens...whenever someone is confronted with ideas they don't
like or people who don't think the same way they do, this insults is
invariably thrown out. Very mature.
"John Ridley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Hitler. Nazis. There, this thread is officially over. Please shut
> up.
>
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:19:08 -0700, "Kevin"
> <Raknaman(NoSpam)@charter.net> wrote:
>
> >> > No, you are not f*****, but you are a jackass for posting a subject
line
> >> > like that. And the people who are defending you are bigger
jackasses.
> >>
> >> Why? It's a perfectly common (ab)use of the word in contemporary
> >> English. Why is he a jackass for writing English?
> >
> >
> >Figures an even bigger jackass would think using a subject line like that
is
> >okay!
> >
>
> -----
> John Ridley
> http://ridley.dyndns.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roberto Alsina)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: 19 Apr 2001 13:21:22 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
billh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Roberto Alsina"
>
>> Let's see: if the commandment allowed for the act of war, it must allow
>> for the act of was as it was understood at the time the commandment was
>> given.
>
>It must?
Of course.
> Your cite for such?
No cite, but a little logic. Why would god give a commandment that could
not be understood? After all (ok, here's a cite) "if the trumpet call is
not clear, who will prepare for battle?"
>I've shown you where God's commandment not to murder were followed God's
>commands to kill in war. No problem since murder is simply a subset of
>killing, and as such, not all killing is murder.
And this refutes what you quote above in no way. But I kinda expected
that.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roberto Alsina)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: 19 Apr 2001 13:22:23 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
billh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> How anyone can be a literalist, and believe that an entity that gave such
>> commands is worth adoring is beyond me. I say, if this is god, then god
>> can fuck himself. Since he is supposedly omnipotent, he should be able to.
>
>
>And your statement that "...if you believe the bible is the revealed word of
>god, you are inthe same position as childs who believe in santa, in a way."
>There you go again, using an example YOU don't believe in an attempt to
>strengthen YOUR argument.
Reductio ad absurdum. Look it up.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (theRadical)
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:23:38 GMT
On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:40:32 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>The captain wasn't even on the bridge. The HELMSMAN was steering the
>ship, not the Captain....
>
>In such circumstances, the Captain BELONGS off the bridge, because
>he only gets in the way of the Helmsman and the Officer of the Deck.
>
>
>
good one. that is the stupidest fucking thing i have ever read.
where did you pick that up, from all the merchant mariners you blow?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roberto Alsina)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: 19 Apr 2001 13:24:23 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
billh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Roberto Alsina"
>
>> If by murder you mean "murder as defined today", indeed it is the same
>> at any time.
>
>Since murder was brought up by ythe use og Exodus 20, read the Bible. Once
>you have you'll understand murder is defined by the intent and motive of the
>murderer, whether 3000 years ago or today.
What defines murder != how murder is defined.
Apparently killing a woman for luring you into adoration of Baal
was not a murder. It is a murder today.
Yes, in both cases the decision of whether it is a murder or not
is based on intent and motive. Yet the decision reached is
different.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roberto Alsina)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: 19 Apr 2001 13:25:14 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
billh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Roberto Alsina"
>
>> No, but if you believe the bible is the revealed word of god, you are in
>> the same position as childs who believe in santa, in a way.
>
>Yet it was you who chose to use Exodus 20 in a vain attempt to strengthen
>your argument. Your use of scripture coupled with your statement above says
>much more about you than anyone else.
Indeed, it says I know about the technique called reductio ad absurdum.
It's fun, you should look it up.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:33:26 +0100
> I think good security demands that the current directory is not in your
> path, though, so to run the trojan I would need to type:
>
> $ ./su
But the person from whos account you are running su may have it in the
current path.
> If you're paranoid you can type
>
> $ which su
or just /bin/su
-Ed
> before embarking on this perilous command.
>
>
--
I spillced coffcee cincto my kcey boardc.c As a rcesulct, c's gcet
inctermixcced with cwactever I ctypce. Plcease replace mcy kceyboard.
ccthanks.
u 9 8 e j r (at) e c s . o x . a c . u k
------------------------------
From: chrisv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:40:14 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett) wrote:
>Some WinTroll messages are so obvious that it's pointless to waste
>time refutting bogus made up installation horror stories. After
>all, isn't that exactly what they're after?
Could you bury your head in the sand any deeper, I wonder?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:41:50 -0400
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: rec.photo.digital,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Am I f******? HP Photosmart C500 and Win 2000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I wouldn't be letting my 10 year old child perusing newsgroups on their
> own. And then, if we encountered this same situation, I would have dealt
> with it in a mature manner than most on here seem to be handling it.
Exactly! Usenet has a lot of bad language. If we talked to the level
of a youngster younger than 10, we'd be sugarcoating things to the
extent that the adults wouldn't be able to discuss anything. Bad
language is also one of the least of our worries, as there is a lot of
other adult matter on NG's (dealing with death, recovering from
alcoholism, etc.) that are inappropriate for kids. NG's are not for
kids. Anyone who thinks a kid can just logon to daddy's internet
service, and safely browse usenet NG's and not see something that is
disturbing to a child is severly deluded. But that doesn't mean we
should spew forth crap and filth just because we can get away with it.
Kids should be browsing the internet only under adult supervision.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Neil Cerutti)
Subject: Re: To Eric FunkenBush
Date: 19 Apr 2001 13:46:57 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Donovan Rebbechi posted:
>On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:29:07 -0700, GreyCloud wrote:
>> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
>> Go buy this book: ISBN 1-57169-131-6.... it discusses STL
>> This so called ignorance you are talking about...??? Tell that to
>> Stephan Prata.
>
>I've got a bunch of great books, by (for example) Koenig, Coplien,
>Stroustrup, Meyers, Fowler, etc.
>
>HOWEVER, the problem is that not everyone is fortunate enough to
>start with a good book, and you can NOT pick up a random C++
>text with the assumption that the author is competent.
In fact, judging from the derth of positive reviews at ACCUVIEW
I'd say you can pretty much assume any newly discovered C++
textbook is crap until you know otherwise.
>Well, you're going to have to refute harder. I can cite numerous
>examples of incompetent faculty, teaching from incorrect
>textbooks, and setting incorrect text exams (often also taken
>from incorrect question lists)
>
And for some people it's very difficult to accept that the
college course they/their employer just payed big bux for had
serious weaknesses.
>But I've seen worse -- there are people who teach from books
>that do things like confusing windows specific functions with
>the standard library (@##@$!!)
Or make no distinction whatever.
--
Neil Cerutti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*** The museum bought your antique personal computer for $250. ***
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Why linux is good and a complaint about RedHat
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:50:01 +0100
I have yet another complaint about Redhat Linux, specfically RH7.
The problem is with the X session and login X init scripts. Esentially,
they are a nasty kludge on the RH5.2 scripts which were in them selves
pretty messy to start with.
Esentially, if you choose an option from the menu for which desktop you
want it does not remember that option. You can put some stuff in a
~/.Xsession and use default but then it still won't remember what you
chose.
There is a place from the old (RH5) scripts that lets you choose a
default: the .wm_style file, but that is only accessed if, firstly you
choose default (that's fine, but the non default options do not write to
it) and if there is no system default desktop. So the system preferences
come first making the user ones useless. And even if you got far enough
to get the .wm_style file read, it is not aboe to choose Gnome or Kde or
a custom .xinit file.
Also each desktom/windowmanager cn be loaded at about 5 or 6 different
points in at least 3 scripts, which makes altering that a pain in the
neck.
I haven't actually managed to make it sound quite as twisted as it is,
but you get the idea.
Anyway, that is my complaint about Redhat.
This also clearly highlights a big plus with UNIX/Linux. So, redhat
screwed up a bit here. But that doesn't matter because I was able to
configure it so that now it all works properly so that not only do the
user preferences come first but they will be remembered as well, which is
exactly how I wanted it. The only problem is that I haven't spent very
long on it so its still a little kludgy.
Here's the other good point:
Instead of whinging, when I have time (about 2 days should do) I will
write the scripts so that they work in a nice, clean, non kludgy way (I
have some fairly large chunks of it done) and donate tham back to the
community so everyone can benefit.
-Ed
--
I spillced coffcee cincto my kcey boardc.c As a rcesulct, c's gcet
inctermixcced with cwactever I ctypce. Plcease replace mcy kceyboard.
ccthanks.
u 9 8 e j r (at) e c s . o x . a c . u k
------------------------------
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