Linux-Misc Digest #533, Volume #18 Sat, 9 Jan 99 14:13:13 EST
Contents:
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers ("Poison Ivan")
Re: glibc vs. libc5 (Frank Sweetser)
Re: Installation CDROM extern (irado furioso)
Re: NOSPAM in addresses.. (David Fox)
ParPort Scanner - Possible or not? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: LINUS Can etc. (Andrew Comech)
Re: ftp speeds on a 56K modem? ("Hernan Freschi")
Re: Linux: Fight for survival or on victory march? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers (Frank Sweetser)
Re: CHAP 4 dummies ("Wael Sedky")
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers ("Netnerd")
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers ("Poison Ivan")
Re: how often do you -really- need to upgrade (Gary Momarison)
Re: how often do you -really- need to upgrade (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Benchmarks for Linux multi-processor. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Logging a user (Chris Hedley)
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers (mlw)
Re: Linux Commands (Athan)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Poison Ivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:08:17 -0800
Johan Kullstam wrote in message ...
>"Poison Ivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> In what sense are consumers overpaying for software? Most consumers get
>> Win98 for about $90 (the retail upgrade price). If I remember right, OEMs
>> pay about $70. Compared to most popular software, this is pretty darn
cheap.
>> Especially considering that an OS enables the user to run all his other
>> software.
>
>in the sense that all the cost of software to microsoft is in the
>non-recurring initial costs. the OEMs bear the cost of installing
>it. a cdrom cost about 5 cents to make. perhaps a dollar to ship in
>quantity.
The cost of manufacturing a product has absolutely nothing to do with the
value that a consumer places on the product. They are totally independent
figures.
By the way, your cost of manufacturing a CD is *way* off, but your point is
still valid (even if irrelevant), so I won't make an issue of it.
>considering the high volume (and low quality) of the product, it *is*
>expensive. the profit margin to microsoft is very high when you
>compare it to other software.
But from the point of view of the consumers, Windows is ridiculously cheap.
Most consumers simply disagree with your statement - they are getting a lot
of value for their money.
This is why most consumers see no problem with Microsoft. If the people who
are paying the money don't think they are over-paying, then they aren't
over-paying.
As an aside, there is plenty of software you can buy that costs a lot more
than Windows, and the cost of manufacturing it is not that much different.
The per unit profit (product price minus cost of goods sold) of Windows is
probably higher than most games, but less than most business titles.
>> So I suspect Microsoft is keeping the price of Windows artificially
*low*.
>> The low prices are how Microsoft maintains its monopoly. Artificially low
>> prices make for very happy consumers, but competing OS producers
obviously
>> hate it.
>
>MS can keep prices high in profit per copy sense yet low in a
>competition sense. no competitor can instantly grab 90% of the market
>and be able to distribute their cost over all those sales.
If Microsoft wanted to maximize profits, they would jack up the price of
Windows to $500. *That* would be a monopoly behaving at its worst, gouging
consumers. A monopoly that keeps prices low does no harm to consumers.
------------------------------
From: Frank Sweetser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: glibc vs. libc5
Date: 09 Jan 1999 01:08:11 -0500
"Hugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I'm new. What is the difference between the two?
glibc2 == libc6.
--
Frank Sweetser rasmusin at wpi.edu fsweetser at blee.net | PGP key available
paramount.ind.wpi.edu RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.2.0pre5ac1 i586 | at public servers
It's not really a rule--it's more like a trend.
-- Larry Wall in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (irado furioso)
Subject: Re: Installation CDROM extern
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 12:59:46 GMT
in delirium, after doing some smoke in a small pipe,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Heinz Schnitzler) throwed this stupidity to this
ng:
some snipping done..
>
>But I'm not able to cancel/close my installation.
>
>Does anybody know a solution for my problem.
>
>Thanks by advance and sorry for my bad english but it's really difficult
>
>for me to translate and explain my problem.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Nils Schnitzler
>
>
>
>
nils, please clarify:
a) is this cdrom plugged in the ide interface or does it uses some
sort of proprietary interface (meaning - "foreign" card) ??
b) are you using the boot diskettes from the RH set or instead, are
you booting from dos and calling the ezstart (or setup) thereafter??
best regards,
Irado Furioso Com Tudo
There are more crimes under religious consciousness than under atheism
------------------------------
From: d s f o x @ c o g s c i . u c s d . e d u (David Fox)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: NOSPAM in addresses..
Date: 08 Jan 1999 22:20:49 -0800
Wisquatuk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> In comp.os.linux.networking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > How about a happy medium. The purpose of putting nospam in your
> > return address is to keep from getting spam. I think a standard of
> > <nospam.realuserid@realdomain> would meet this requirement.
> > Everyone would know who sent the message.
>
> Including the spammers. My problem with that approach is that it
> would do nothing to stop spam, and yet -still- be a (minor) irritation
> to people trying to do e-mail replies.
E-mail responses is mostly what I want to stop. I at least want
people to think twice, my comments are for the group. The worst
is people who post and e-mail, so annoying!
--
David Fox http://hci.ucsd.edu/dsf xoF divaD
UCSD HCI Lab baL ICH DSCU
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: ParPort Scanner - Possible or not?
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 16:43:52 GMT
I am just wondering if it is possible to get a parellel port scanner working
under Linux? I can't seem to find any documentation on the subject. The
scanner that I have is a cheap-o Umax Astra 300p, that is not often used.
But when I do want to use it is have to reboot the system an run it under
windows to get the scan and then reboot. This is one of the last pieces of
hardware that I don't have working in Linux and I am curious to know if it is
even possible or it I will need to ditch the scanner that I have for a SCSI
scanner?
Thanks in advance for the help,
Shad
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: Andrew Comech <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LINUS Can etc.
Date: 9 Jan 1999 13:09:40 -0500
Mental hospitals ain't for trolls.
And -- it is `LOBOTOMY'. You apparently have not heard of
lobotomized winmodems; lucky you.
Regards,
Andrew
------------------------------
From: "Hernan Freschi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ftp speeds on a 56K modem?
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:33:57 -0300
the best way to test the speeds is connecting the two modems directly:
modem <--------> modem
not
modem <----telco----> modem
that will give you the maximum speed without the problems of noisy lines,
analog lines, etc...
you can connect the modems with the modem-to-wall cable to both modems LINE
or WALL input
hope you try that, and sorry for bad english
Ronald Hands escribi� en mensaje <75tkah$bar$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Richard Steiner ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>: Here in comp.os.linux.misc, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
>: spake unto us, saying:
>
>: >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Steiner) writes:
>: >
>: >> Keep in mind that "56k" modems actually negotiate speeds which are no
>: >> more than 53k and possibly lower, at least in the US, due to limits on
>: >> the signal they can produce and still fall within legal guidelines.
>: >
>: >That applied to USR's "X2" technology. It never applied to K56flex
>: >(although it had other problems) and does not apply to V.90.
>
> The manual for my Sportster 56k V90/X2 external modem says, in a
>footnote: "Due to FCC regulations, receiving speeds are limited to 53
>Kbps." No mention that this is limited to X2.
> Has anyone *ever* achieved 56k on any protocol?
> BTW, I'm in Canada -- and presumably beyond the reach of the FCC -- and
>I've never done better than 31.2, thanks to a crummy phone line.
>
>-- Ron
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux: Fight for survival or on victory march?
Date: 8 Jan 1999 21:36:25 -0800
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
>
>>This thing has been free for 3 years, and yet %90 of home users still use
>>windows and applications written for windows.
>
>What an assinine argument!
>
yea? just to let you know, I won first place at my school arguing
compition. out of 50 students, I was the only one left arguning when
eveyone gave up. so, here you go.
>
>Windows comes pre-installed in damn near every computer sold unless the
>customer requests something else.
yea, sure. first, one of you guys claim that Linux will be popular because
it is free. now you claim the reason Linux is used becuase Windows is
pre-installed.
why dont you guys make up your minds which is it??
>
>Same goes for apps as goes for the OS. Install linux on every computer sold
>and OF COURSE people are going to be buying Linux apps.
>
Nothing prevents anyone from downloading Linux for free and installing
it. but after many years, still people are not doing this and there are
today more Window PC than ever!
>Winblows apps can't hold a candle to Linux apps when it comes to quality
>and stability.
really? this is why eveyone call Netscape on Linux junk while the same
Netscape product on windows is cool?? is this why Corel wordperfect 8 on
Linux looks so bad on Linux while same one on NT looks so much better?
I can go on and on. as a matter of fact, applications on Linux are worst
than those on windows. just mention ONE user oritented application on Linux
that is better than its counterpart on Windows. just ONE !
>And ease of use is relative. As far as I'm concerned, and
>those I work with, Linux apps are much easier to use than those written for
>winco's CRASH-O-MATIC.
>
this is so silly. you and those you work with?? how many will that be, 3 people?
there are 300 millions in the US alone who use windows everyday and think
you blow smoke. if Linux applications are so much, and Linux is so much easier
and better than windows, and it is free, then why is it hardly anyone out
there in the real world uses it????? (other than the few geeks offcourse).
>
>I'm sorry but you lose,
>Thanks for playing.
No. You lose big time.
thanks for showing us how little you know about computers and software.
Bob (call me Bill too, it is no problem).
------------------------------
From: Frank Sweetser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: 09 Jan 1999 13:31:36 -0500
David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> d s f o x @ c o g s c i . u c s d . e d u (David Fox) writes:
>
> -> This is such a standard crackpot rant. "Everyone I talk to agrees
> -> with me, these polls must be full of it." I think it was invented by
> -> Rush Limbaugh. Its a convenient way to get people to ignore facts.
>
> The only fact we have is that someone posted that a consumer poll said
> that 81% of consumers thought that Microsoft was good for the market,
> or something. That poster neglected to site the specific poll in
> question, so we don't even know if such a poll took place. Even if
> poll X says Y, the only fact is that poll X said Y. Some
> organizations, like Gallup, may be able to do scientificly valid
> polling to get a reasonable reflection of the total population. But
> we don't know who, if anyone, conducted the poll in this case. We
> also don't know what the form of the poll was. The numbers are
> completely meaningless.
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
--
Frank Sweetser rasmusin at wpi.edu fsweetser at blee.net | PGP key available
paramount.ind.wpi.edu RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.2.0pre5ac1 i586 | at public servers
Norm: Gentlemen, start your taps.
-- Cheers, The Coach's Daughter
------------------------------
From: "Wael Sedky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CHAP 4 dummies
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:54:35 -0800
I am trying to dial my provider. May be I should say that I'm using
Slackware 3.5
>If you want an easy way to login to an ISP, get WVDIAL.
>It will write your pap-secrets and chap-secrets for you.
Thanks I will try it.
------------------------------
From: "Netnerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:51:10 -0500
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
David Steuber wrote in message ...
>d s f o x @ c o g s c i . u c s d . e d u (David Fox) writes:
>
>-> This is such a standard crackpot rant. "Everyone I talk to agrees
>-> with me, these polls must be full of it." I think it was invented by
>-> Rush Limbaugh. Its a convenient way to get people to ignore facts.
>
>The only fact we have is that someone posted that a consumer poll said
>that 81% of consumers thought that Microsoft was good for the market,
>or something. That poster neglected to site the specific poll in
>question, so we don't even know if such a poll took place.
Would you believe the publisher was the Consumer Federation of America?
------------------------------
From: "Poison Ivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:09:35 -0800
Robert Barnes wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Poison Ivan wrote:
>>
>All version of M$-DOS went for around $39 (which was "state of the
>art" at that time). Heck, even WinNT 3.50 only cost $45. So why
>does Win95/Win98 (which are still based on the old DOS code base,
>and thus only upgrades of the original DOS) cost 2 to 3 times as much
>as DOS did?
I've read this post about 10 times, and I still don't understand your
question. Are you saying Win98 and MS-DOS 1.0 are the same thing and
therefore should be priced the same?
Um, OK ...
Win98 enables far more application software than DOS ever did. The software
Windows enables is cooler, too. Windows games are more fun. Windows business
software has more features. Windows software is easier to use.
To put it another way, DOS was boring, and very few people bought DOS
machines. Windows is fun, and lots of people buy Windows machines. To the
average consumer, Windows is far more valuable than DOS.
Honestly, I don't see what the price of MS-DOS in 1988 has to do with the
value consumers receive from Win98. This seems uncontroversial and
self-evident to me, so I suspect I'm not understanding your point.
------------------------------
From: Gary Momarison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: how often do you -really- need to upgrade
Date: 08 Jan 1999 22:53:49 -0800
I've been at it for almost 4 years and have found I was more-or-less
forced to upgrade my Red Hat or RH variant OSes about once a year.
The only reason being that I'd try to upgrade a program that would
require some new package that would require two or three other
new packages.... That would be OK for a while, but the older the OS
the faster the progression gets and it just becomes much easier to
upgrade the OS than many packages.
If you don't install new HW or SW, you might never need to upgrade.
--
Try Gary's Encyclopedia at http://www.aa.net/~swear/pedia/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: how often do you -really- need to upgrade
Date: 9 Jan 1999 00:52:03 -0600
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
steve mcadams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm still trying different distributions (so far I like S.u.S.E. 5.3
>the best, but I have a half-dozen I haven't tried yet). Once I settle
>on one, how often am I really going to need to upgrade?
It isn't a question of need (beyond security fixes that can usually
be dropped in without major changes). You will just be missing
all the new things that will be added to the next versions.
>What have you guys seen over the years? How often do yo do any kind
>of upgrade? More than a new kernel?
You'll probably want a complete upgrade at least once a year, maybe
every 6 months. The trick is to be sure you have /home on a separate
partition so you don't touch your own work if you do a complete
reload. If you compile a lot of programs that aren't in the
distribution you might also want /usr/local to be a separate partition
or a symlink into your /home partition so you can keep it while
replacing / and /usr.
If you like to play with different distributions you might want
to make alternate system partitions too. You can install more
than one complete system and use LILO to boot the one you want.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Benchmarks for Linux multi-processor.
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 18:58:44 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, ekihn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Still curious why Intel wants so much for .5 Mb cache. I'll have to get
>more serious about my analysis of our needs. It will be hard to by .5 Mb
>of cache instead of Gb's of RAM if the time comes though :).
>I liked your cache discussion because it pointsout that no hardware
>makes up for bad programming.
About two years ago there was an article in PC Week about comparing quad proc
servers with PPro 200s with 256K and 512K caches. The OS's used were NT and
netware being hit by about 20+ clients. The systems were identical in each
case. The 512K cache system had +40% performance increase because it didn't
have to flush the cache as much when it switch processes. They used their
server bench test. Obviously your performance will vary depending on the
software you are running and the number of clients/processes.
So you can see why Intel wants ~$3600 for a Xeon 450 with 2mb of cache.
Paul
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Hedley)
Subject: Re: Logging a user
Date: 9 Jan 1999 18:08:28 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Is there anyway I can log all of a specific user's movements, such as
> what commands they have run?
You could always turn on process accounting (see accton etc) which logs
every binary run on the system by anybody (but doesn't include command-
line flags) Beware, though; you'll need to watch the disc-space on
busy systems if you don't have a big enough /var. At one of my previous
employers, we used to use this to generate daily stats in order to do
system load-balancing etc.
Chris.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 18:55:56 +0000
Johan Kullstam wrote:
>
> Robin Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > It's unwise of Americans to talk about genocide. Europeans carried out
> > genocide in the New World long before Adolf.
>
> why is it unwise? the americans largely suceeded!
And does that make you feel good? Genocide is horrible no matter who has
done it, and I think one would be hard pressed to find a government that
hasn't attempted some form of it.
U.S.A. yup native americans, japanise internment
Canada: yup native americans
Germany: yup jews
Mexico: yup native americans
England: yup irish
Turky: yup armenians
USSR: yup georgans, (Stallin, everyone)
Japan: yup koreans, chinese
lets not even mention some African countries.
And this is just in the last hundred or so years. Makes me sick just
thinking of the horrors involved.
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 95, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit the Mohawk Software website: www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: Athan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Commands
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 19:03:36 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
have a look at
/sbin
/bin
/usr/bin/X11/ >same like next one
/usr/X11R6/bin/
This are a good start I think
Athan
RFSP wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Where can I find a site or a book with all linux commands.
>
> thx
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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