Linux-Misc Digest #614, Volume #18 Thu, 14 Jan 99 13:13:15 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class. ("Chris Severn")
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers (Patrick O'Neil)
Re: Earthlink unfriendly to Linux (Mooneer Salem)
hdgenlist crash (Pierre Frenkiel)
Re: Why isn't this simple script working? (Dan Nguyen)
redifining alt-ctrl-del keys (Filip Hosten)
Re: mail (Johan Kullstam)
How do you connect to NETCOM with Red Hat 5.2? (Matthew Waters)
Re: Q: Downloading and installing Linux
Re: Nedit for w95 (Dan Mercer)
Re: Anti-aliased fonts (Brian A. Pomerantz)
Re: Anti-Linux FUD (Thomas Womack)
Re: 2.2.0pre7 kernel installation questions (Henrik Christian Grove)
Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class. (Grant W. Petty)
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers (jedi)
redhat 5.2 server make risky partition (Mark L)
Re: Switching to Windows 95 ("Stuart Peacock")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chris Severn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:57:46 +0800
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message <77icc4$p3f$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Con Tiki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Linux will never be popular among most computer users
>That's a great one-line to pull out of that post, you don't work for a
>Newspaper or News station, do you?
>> And I can safely say that windows never will either.
>Windows IS popular among most computer users.
Well, that depends on your version of "popular". Many people fill up their
car with petrol every several days. Now, filling up the car with petrol
isn't necessarily a "popular" thing to do is it ? People don't like doing
it (and paying for it), but they recognise it as a necessary evil. Hydrogen
is still hard to get, and you won't be able to syphon off some of your fuel
to help a mate who ran out (the mate runs a petrol car). Solar power has
its disadvantages. The new fusion car runs quickly with a smaller engine,
but the people who make the petrol car aren't releasing the specifications,
so its difficult to replace the petrol engine with the fusion one. On top
of that, the makers of the petrol car are spreading fear, uncertainty and
doubt about the fusion engine. Oh, and for some reason the cars with petrol
engines are always crashing, killing everyone inside.
>If it wasn't, it wouldn't be
>the top of the commercial OS heap. But as I explained in my previous post,
>thanks to Bill G., most computer users now are spoon-fed dorks who can't
even
>read the instructions printed on the VCR about how to set their clocks.
>People who can't read that Compact Disk Logo that is printed on the front
of
>their CD-Roms, and think that the retractable tray is like their car's
coffee
>cup holder, and in all reality have no business using computers.
Chris Severn.
--
Delete the 'x's to remove the spamblock.
Except spammers, for whom my email address is abuse@localhost
------------------------------
From: Patrick O'Neil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:21:52 -0700
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Ambassador KosH wrote:
> who gives a rat's ass what the public thinks? the majority of the people polled
> (not necessarily the general public) think clinton shouldn't be removed from
> office, but he still commited crimes that would get the average joe around 5-15
> years or more in jail under federal law. Just because part or most of the
> public likes the person on trial doesn't mean that the law should overlook the
> issue because they are popular.
Well said...for THIS reason both Reagan and Bush, both committing FAR, FAR
greater and grave offenses against the Constitution and the rule of law
(Iran-Contra, violating the Bowling Amendment, etc, lying under oath...)
should have been nailed to the wall, impeached and jailed.
As for what the public thinks, it DOES matter. If the public didn't give
a whit for linux then there would be no commercial software provided for
linux. No games, ever (the minor-league old style, primative little toys
like galaga, solitaire, etc, do NOT count...I'm talkin' REAL, technically
polished and advanced games like Quake, Unreal, Half-Life, Battlespire,
etc).
There would NEVER be tax preparation software - I am STILL hoping for
Intuit or Parson's or other company to make a version of their excellent
tax prep software for linux - there is NO, NONE, NADA GPL versions of this
software anywhere to be had, and it is HIGHLY unlikely, due to the legal
access and understanding required, that a GPL version from generic hackers
in the linux community would be much good - it takes tax expertise and an
ability to accept liability, as with Intuit and Parson's, for tax
problems/errors arising from the proper use of their software.
With little commercial support, which depends on public support and
perception to a great extent, then few corporations would consider linux
(they are only doing so as it is because there IS commercial software AND
commercial linux tech support via Caldera or RedHat, etc...NOT from
newsgroups).
Now having no commercial support at all may well be OK for a few hardcore,
rigid mindsets in a very narrow sector of the linux community, but for
many, perhaps MOST (and growing every day, in spite of what that small
minority group desires) want and desire commercial software AS WELL as the
nice GPL, freeware, etc software.
The days of a small core of linux hackers/user is gone. Linux is growing
beyond such a limited life and is taking on a life of its own that is much
larger and richer than that. This simply has to be accepted because
there ain't jack that the small, hardcore can do about it. For the
non-hardcore, commercial software to SOME degree does matter. This
doesn't threaten GPL software at all, but is adjunct to it. This
commercial support depends on public perception and support (they are the
customers, afterall).
patrick
------------------------------
From: Mooneer Salem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Earthlink unfriendly to Linux
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:17:46 -0800
JeffOf wrote:
>
> I'd like to tell you about an unhappy experience with Earthlink Network that is
> relevant to Linux users.
> My service was cancelled today without warning and with little explanation
> after I installed Red Hat 5.2. I am brand new to Linux and attempted only to
> get my mail program to work.
> Earthlink accused me of trying to "probe" their services and basically talked
> to me as if I were a criminal. Their explanation of my "offense" was highly
> technical and unenlightening to a computer non-professional.
> Of course they didn't reconsider their decision. They said of my explanation,
> "well that's your version."
> Earthlink's wish to avoid abuse of their service is understandable -- but they
> need a little real world experience in dealing with the segment of their
> customers who are NOT felons.
>
> Jeff Ofgang
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I use Earthlink as well, and I also have Linux on 2 of my computers (the
computers also
have Windows 95/98 just in case). I've been using Linux for over a year
with Earthlink and
they never said anything about my using Linux. In fact, the Internet
access was a bit
faster under Linux than under Windows.
And according to the Technical Support area (http://help.earthlink.net/)
they do have
some pages that explain how to configure certain aspects of Linux for
Earthlink.
--
Mooneer Salem
Webmaster & Administrator for HyperNetMsg
(http://hypernetmsg.hypermart.net/)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pierre Frenkiel)
Subject: hdgenlist crash
Date: 14 Jan 1999 16:14:07 GMT
Having downloaded the RedHat 5.2 updates, I tried to merge them with
the original 5.2 distribution, using hdgenlist.
I got:
read failed: Is a directory (21)
Memory fault
I saw a lot a question about this problem in December news, but no answer!
Does anybody tried it ?
==============================================================================
Pierre Frenkiel e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Physique Corpusculaire et Cosmologie tel: 01.44.27.15.27
Collège de France tel mobile: 06.68.14.73.64
11 pl. Marcelin Berthelot fax: 01.43.54.69.89
F-75231 Paris Cedex 5
------------------------------
From: Dan Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Why isn't this simple script working?
Date: 14 Jan 1999 16:17:25 GMT
In comp.os.linux.misc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: Can anyone tell me why this *simple* script is not working? It is driving me
: bonkers! (Yes, I made it executable):
: PATH=/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin
: export PATH
: That's it! If I type this in manually, it will work. If I run the script, it
: won't set the PATH. What's up?
If you just run it. It will create a new shell and set that new
shell's path. Then when it finishes its gone. You need to do a
". ./foo" to get it to use the current shell.
--
Dan Nguyen | There is only one happiness in
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | life, to love and be loved.
http://www.cse.msu.edu/~nguyend7 | -George Sand
------------------------------
From: Filip Hosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: redifining alt-ctrl-del keys
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:17:21 +0100
Hi,
On my portable I would like to define next to my alt-ctrl-del key
another combination (say alt-ctrl-end) to "halt" the pc.(halt also shuts
of the machine power)
Any solutions?
Mails are welcome.
Filip
--
Filip Hosten, Dep. : VE119, Alcatel Design Centre Antwerp Belgium,
Internat. phone : +32 3 240 7769,
Alcanet phone : 2 605 7769, Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Subject: Re: mail
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 13 Jan 1999 23:11:40 -0500
Jorge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> When I send myself mail from the command prompt, I get a mail from the
> systems telling me that it is unsupported.
> Also, though I am connected to my ISP, I can not down load the
> messages, but I can do it with NetScape.
> Please if you know the answer to any of these problem reply to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Thanks in advance.
some Mail User Agents (MUA) such as netscape or pine will be able to
talk to the isp smtp directly in order for it to relay you mail and
they can fetch from a pop server.
to really set up mail for linux is rather complex, but not
impossible. don't give up.
you need a Mail Transport Agent (MTA) such as sendmail, qmail, exim,
smail &c. this will let you send (and receive) mail via smtp. i am
using qmail since i found it easier to set up than sendmail.
you will also want fetchmail. this program will connect to the isp
pop server, retrieve and stuff your mails down the MTA's throat via
smtp on localhost. once the MTA gets a hold of it, it will put the
mail in your mailbox for you.
at this point you can read and send mail from your linux box
directly.
hope this helps.
--
Johan Kullstam [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
From: Matthew Waters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: How do you connect to NETCOM with Red Hat 5.2?
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:50:56 -0600
Hello everyone. I just got Red Hat 5.2 last weekend and I would like
to know if anyone knows how to connect to NETCOM with this particular
distribution of Linux. I would also be interested if anyone knows how to
configure a modem using RH 5.2. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Q: Downloading and installing Linux
Date: 14 Jan 1999 04:54:44 GMT
I too spent about 4 nights d/l'n ALL the files (except the how-toos in other
languages) only to have the
same problem- and i tried the advanced option all to no avail-
I was thinking that it might be a result of how ms stores filenames....
in any case I found a solution- www.linuxmall.com, you can get a copy of RH 5.2 (as
well as other things)
for a measley $1.85 + shipping, you can get it free if you buy something from them
that costs more than
$11 (may I suggest the RH manual, at $12.95).
I for one am really curious as to why this happens... and will watch the thread!
Morten Frederiksen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: I have tried downloading Redhat Linux 5.2 (i386) (all files from
: ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/redhat-5.2/i386/) and then record
: everything on a CD.
: Creating the bootdisk was succesfull, but the installation program was
: unable to detect my Adaptec 1520 SCSI-adapter. As my CD-rom drive is SCSI,
: I cannot install Linux. Does anyone know this problem, how to solve it
: and/or where to seek information?
: I tried the installation on another PC, where the installation detected
: the CD-rom drive (IDE). However, the installation does not recognize the
: CD in the drive as the Linux CD, and consequently stops the installation.
: Is the CD required to have a particular label or to be burnt in any
: particular way?
:
: Regards
: Morten Frederiksen
: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
: http://www.but.auc.dk/~33frede/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Mercer)
Crossposted-To: comp.editors
Subject: Re: Nedit for w95
Date: 14 Jan 1999 16:36:15 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Antoni Zochowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Could someone tell me, how to make Nedit for W95 to work with
> MI/X free Xwindows server ? The available package is configured
> for Exceed, but there is mention of running it also under
> MI/X. The MI/X alone works fine.
> Thanks
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Use the -display option of nedit and give it the name of your machine:
nedit -display dansbox:0
The one problem I had with it was I/O accessing files and directories -
the open dialog took almost a minute to show up.
Dan Mercer
Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brian A. Pomerantz)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Anti-aliased fonts
Date: 14 Jan 1999 17:00:34 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Kaustav Bhattacharya <k, dot, bhattacharya, at, bbc, dot, co, dot, uk> wrote:
>I just installed Red Hat Linux 5.2. It works great. Being a long time
>Risc OS (Acorn) user I miss the availability of a system wide/GUI
>standard for use of anti-aliased fonts. Is there a way (a WM? or
>something) of getting fonts to anti-alias under X or another WM? I
>remember reading somewhere that there was a way of doing this?
There is work in progress for the 4.0 release of XFree86 that will
allow anti-aliased fonts. This will be in the form of a new X
extension. So, any app that you have will more than likely have to be
aware of the X extension and utilize it. Of course, it is work in
progress and things will change, but don't expect to see anything
before next summer at the earliest.
BAPper
------------------------------
From: Thomas Womack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.conspiracy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.x,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Anti-Linux FUD
Date: 14 Jan 1999 12:31:01 GMT
In gnu.misc.discuss David Kastrup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
: "Russ Buchanan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: > 1. Windows is arguably a 'USER' platform -- even if you believe it is a
: > cheap rip off of MAC. Why is the MAC so loved -- assume that users know
: > nothing of computers -- everyone starts there. In Windows, stupid things
: > like dancing paperclips make the computer seem a little more friendly --
: > nothing more. When dealing with luddites this can be everything.
: Most people I have encountered find the dancing paperclip annoying
: because it pops up unasked for and blocks the whole computer until you
: have clicked it away again. If anybody had a brain when designing the
: thing he would make sure that it does not block the rest of the work
: so that people may just ignore it.
Um, I don't quite see what you're on about there.
The dancing paperclip pops up unexpectedly iff you type something it
thinks is a letter (this is a known bug), and you can carry on typing
while it's sitting there, at least in Office97 SP2. It moves away from your
cursor if you're typing, so it doesn't cover bits of text. Frankly, it's
quite a well-implemented dancing paperclip.
And, of course, you can right-click on it and configure it from the menu
that appears; you can get it out of the way almost completely.
Tom
------------------------------
From: Henrik Christian Grove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 2.2.0pre7 kernel installation questions
Date: 14 Jan 1999 17:47:34 +0100
Rafe Colburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> PCMCIA and PPP - The box I'm using does not need PCMCIA or PPP (it's not a
> laptop, and it doesn't have a modem). Do I need to worry about
> installing/updating these?
Of course not.
> It also says that version 2.1.121 of the Kernel modules are required, and
> that you can find out the version using 'insmod -V'. I'm not sure what to
> run insmod -V on though.
Just use `insmod -V`, it will probably display a usage note, but the version
number will be there, and thats what you need.
> Also, I'm not sure where to get updates to the
> modules that I have.
If you use any modules not distributed with the kernel, you should probably
ask whoever made them.
> I did download version 2.1.121 of modutils, but it says in the README that
> they must be compiled under a 2.1.x kernel. Is this what I need to
> upgrade, and do I need to install a 2.1.x kernel, and compile and install
> the modutils before I can move to the most recent kernel?
It just means that /usr/src/linux/ should contain (be a link to) the source
for a 2.1.XX (or 2.2.0-preY) kernel.
So just unpack the sources, compile and install modutils, and then go on to
play with the new kernel.
--
Henrik Grove
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Student of Mathematics at the University of Copenhagen
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grant W. Petty)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class.
Date: 14 Jan 1999 16:42:04 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:59:22 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Windows is fine for those type of people. Let's face it, popularity
>doesn't mean superiority.
Case in point: the Beta vs. VHS war back in the late 70s (or whenever
it was). For quite a while, consumers could choose. Technically
informed people knew that Beta was a superior format and chose that.
But VHS started to gain a decisive edge in market share (through
effective marketing) and it snowballed from there. At one point in my
life, I had to choose between buying into a superior technology which
was clearly on its way out or one for which there was actual
commercial support, in the form of a wide selection of rental videos,
etc. Guess which one I (grudgingly) chose? So did everyone else. End
of story.
As far as I'm concerned, the Apple vs. MS/IBM thing is just a repeat.
The superior product didn't win, market share did. Unlike the case
for automobiles, vacuum cleaners, etc., compatibility with what the
rest of the world is using is THE ONLY viable criterion when it comes
to commercial software, rental video tapes, television broadcast
standards, etc., regardless of the technical merits.
Windows is popular for one reason: there's currently no acceptable
alternative for consumer- or office-oriented applications. Well,
maybe the new iMac is -- I don't really know anything about it. Linux
may get there someday (I hope), but it's not there yet.
I use Unix at work and Linux at home when I'm doing scientific
programming, and when I need (as I very frequently do) full-featured
shells (e.g., tcsh or bash) and utilities like grep, find, dd, sed,
etc. that have no fully functional equivalents under Win9X/DOS.
God, it is frustrating to try to accomplish anything efficiently under
Win9x that wasn't specifically provided for in the OS/GUI. Or that
doesn't lend itself to the use of a mouse. And yet: if I want to have
useful packages like Quicken or Photoshop or, say, pro-quality digital
audio recording software, or if I want to be able to exchange
documents or spreadsheets with my business contacts, I have NO CHOICE
but to hold my nose and fire up Windows and, where applicable,
MS-Office. THAT'S the key to Microsoft's so-called "popularity". And
I don't see how that will ever change, unless one of two things happens:
(1) commercial software vendors make a conscious, collective
sacrifice of their own development resources in order to break
MS's stranglehold on the market, by porting popular packages to
competing OSs, like Linux. Or
(2) Someone clones the Win9X environment within another OS
well enough to allow all popular WinXX-type applications to
run seamlessly and efficiently under that OS. Seems
unlikely. Even Apple solves that problem not by
cloning the Win98 software environment but by running an actual
licensed copy of Win98 on a software-emulated Intel box. That
approach only strengthens MS's grip, not loosens it, in my
opinion.
Finally, if Linux is to have half a chance of making inroads into the
broader market, it has to become possible to do a complete install and
configuration simply by sticking a CD in the drive and clicking
"install". I just installed Suse 5.3 on my PC last week and it's
still FAR from being a process the average Joe Blow would be able to
muddle through, I think.
- Grant
--
Grant W. Petty |Assoc. Prof., Atmospheric Science
Dept. of Earth & Atmospheric Sciences |Voice: (765)-494-2544
Purdue University, 1397 CIVL Bldg. |Fax: (765)-496-1210
West Lafayette, IN 47907-1397, USA |Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jedi)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:36:48 -0800
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:13:12 -0800, Ambassador KosH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>who gives a rat's ass what the public thinks? the majority of the people polled
>(not necessarily the general public) think clinton shouldn't be removed from
>office, but he still commited crimes that would get the average joe around 5-15
>years or more in jail under federal law. Just because part or most of the
The average joe never would have been in the position to be
caught. The average joe could have filed some form of harass-
ment suit & cease & desist long before it got that far.
Also, the average joe commited perjury in civil depositions
long before Bill was accussed of making it fashionable.
So? Anyone got any good examples of civil perjury convictions.
>public likes the person on trial doesn't mean that the law should overlook the
>issue because they are popular.
>
>Netnerd wrote:
>
>> The latest consumer poll shows that 81 percent of consumers think Microsoft
>> has been good for consumers, and 52 percent think the case was brought to
>> help Microsoft's rivals.
>>
>> The poll also shows that 76 percent of consumers think U.S. District Judge
>> Thomas Penfield Jackson should find Microsoft not guilty of violating the
>> Sherman Antitrust Act when the trial concludes sometime in the next two or
>> three months.
>>
>> The consumer has spoken, but will this affect Penfield Jackson’s rulings?
>> Of course not, a biased and angry Penfield will rule against Microsoft on
>> every count and impose the most severe penalty he believes possible. But
>> not to worry, there is a contingency plan in place regardless the DOJ trial
>> and appeals outcome. Long live Microsoft.
>
>
--
Herding Humans ~ Herding Cats
Neither will do a thing unless they really want to, or |||
is coerced to the point where it will scratch your eyes out / | \
as soon as your grip slips.
In search of sane PPP docs? Try http://penguin.lvcm.com
------------------------------
From: Mark L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: redhat 5.2 server make risky partition
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:37:11 +0800
I installed redhat 5.2 and choosed sever and not custom. It installed
with many default setting. After installation, I found it placed root
partition on the bottom which is beyond 1024 cyclinder of my scsi hd.
And also I got a warning message when I run fdisk. What I know is we
need to place root partition within 1024 cyclinder for scsi hd and 512
cyclinder for ide hd. Is linux no need to care about this anymore
because the latest kernel or something was made to improve already?
Also, they made a /boot in the seperated partition and placed at the
first part. I was usually let it with / partition. Is there any purpose
to do it?
Any information is appreciated,
mark @ chevalier.net
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Peacock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: Switching to Windows 95
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:38:27 -0800
Because it won't run at all.
A little Linux humor there.
>This I just *have* to hear...why exactly will Win95 "run much better" if
>I delete my COMMAND.COM from the root directory on my C drive?
>
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
