Linux-Misc Digest #614, Volume #24 Sat, 27 May 00 05:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: democracy? ("Francis Van Aeken")
Re: democracy? (Salvador Peralta)
Re: how to enter a bug report against linux? (Richard Steiner)
Re: how to enter a bug report against linux? (Richard Steiner)
Re: 6 certifications in 30 Days and 15+ College Credits!!! (Andrew Dacey)
Re: democracy? ("Colin R. Day")
[Q] Okidata 810e & large files (Vladik)
Re: sprintf bug? (Harlan Grove)
Re: Files with TAR subscript (Paul Colquhoun)
WYSIWYG web page maker called Top Page (Spawn)
Re: proftpd - guest users (Jeff Grossman)
Will Panasonic 8x4x32 IDE burner burn in linux? ("David Cougle")
Re: democracy? (Mark Wilden)
Re: democracy? (Mark Wilden)
Re: RH Linux 6.2 and FAT32. ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: which is the best linux distro - please vote (Andreas Kahari)
Re: RH 6.0 (HD) installation problem
How to read mail automatically and extracted data into database
Re: problem with isdn (Mark White)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Francis Van Aeken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 02:32:14 -0300
Greg Yantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"Francis Van Aeken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> -have you bothered to consider sample size and distribution?
Some of the polls are more "scientific" than others, but I agree that
they're just polls, not comparable to a referendum.
> -do you understand the difference between representative democracy
> and mob rule?
I believe we should get rid of the middle-men (the politicians), at least
in the long run. I don't think such a system has to be as crude as mob
rule.
> > Why is it that the opinion of the man in the street doesn't matter (because
> > they're stupid, stupid! (?))
> Noone ever said that. The opinion of the man in the street has both direct
> and indirect outlets. The direct outlet is the ballot box. The indirect
> outlet is through demonstration of some kind- either public, or letter
> writing to one's elected representatives- to let elected folks know what
> sort of policies are likely to be rewarded at the ballot box next time out.
Why not vote on issues, too? Maybe not everybody is well informed
about the issues they have to vote on, but then, not everybody is well
informed about the candidates they vote for either.
> > and why is it that one single person (the judge)
> > is to make the decision? Shouldn't there be at least a panel or a jury?
> Because for a representative system to actually *function*, once an
> official (either elected or appointed) is in position, within certain
> bounds of accountability they should be free to do as they think best.
> It's a bit of a trade-off.
Yes, but in this case a panel would be more reasonable. Well, I suppose
there will be a panel / multiple judges in the higher courts, or am I
mistaken about that?
> Anything else, particularly elected officials basing their "leadership"
> on daily opinion polls, tends to resemble pandering to the mob.
> (Circus & dole, anyone?)
Free entertainment and food? Not bad as a start...
Francis.
------------------------------
From: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 22:28:35 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I can't share your pessimistic worldview, Roy. While I will not dispute
the power and influence of major corporations on the American political
process, I will point out that class-based politics is considerably more
entrenched throughout europe than it is in the U.S. Moreover, it is
also easier for a person to raise his or her SES (socio-economic status)
in the U.S. than in most any other country in the world.
You might believe that corporations dominate the U.S. political process,
and to a significant extent it is true, but not all corporations share
the same set of interests, and I feel compelled to mention that
organized labor and special interest groups also have a significant
impact on legislation at all levels in the political process. This is
not a bad thing. All of these groups; corporations, SIG's, and
organized labor represent very real, very quantifiable sets of human
interests.
When I said that the U.S. is not a democracy, what I said is true in the
literal sense. The U.S. is a federal republic. That doesn't mean that
democratic ideals are not embraced by the political process.
You speak of the American ethos as benefitting no one but corporations
and organized religion. You speak of people as though they are stupid
and blind. Sheep. I regard that to be a very elitist attitude.
While I agree that certain points of view are promoted above others (by
the educational system, media, and religion, for example), to say that
the net result is a public incapable of recognizing its own
self-interest and of performing critical thought is simply wrong.
Self-awareness tends to increase with economic freedom, education, and
leisure time. Those commodities are becoming more ubiquitous in our
culture, not less.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Isn't ignorance bliss? The only thing that counts in America is money.
> Your politics are incredibly corrupt. Of course so is the politics of most
> 1st world countries. The third world is worse for sure. But the USA should
> set an example and it fails woefully. It appears that in the USA you can
> fool most of the people most of the time. Very sad.
>
> With regard to the earlier comment, in a previous post, about the average person
> being stupid, this is unfortunately true. They aren't born stupid but develop the
> trait through crap educational systems and a life where thinking does them no
> good at all. Who benefits from this. Institutional religion and big business.
> Hmm, that desribes the USA perfectly.
--
Salvador Peralta
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.la-online.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Steiner)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: how to enter a bug report against linux?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:22:18 -0500
Here in comp.os.linux.misc, s@- spake unto us, saying:
>i have been around and i have seen groups of morons in large quantities
>and in close proximity before, but never so many in one place as
>in this newsgroup.
And this is constructive commentary...?
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Bloomington, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
+ VMWare + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
You cannot enter the same river once.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Steiner)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: how to enter a bug report against linux?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:13:12 -0500
Here in comp.os.linux.misc, s@- spake unto us, saying:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
>>>What I find the most amazing thing in this, is that we are aactually
>>>arguing if a bug-tracking system is usefull or not.
>
>>A lot depends on whether the overhead of the system justifies its use.
>>Not all systems are worth the effort in all cases, and I know some folks
>>who are quite unhappy about the overhead involved in some of the more
>>complex commercial change-control systems (as an example).
>
>If you are not happy with the source control system you are using, get
>a better one. The answer is NOT not to use one.
All I'm saying is that it depends on the context.
As an example, I don't use any formal source control at all for the
several utilities that I maintain at my workplace other than a text
file in which I keep a TODO list. It simply isn't needed for 20000
lines of code that I alone maintain.
>Can you imagine working on 500,000 lines program without source
>control system??
Not something that large, no, at least without strict segmentation of
programmer responsibility (which is itself a form of source control,
at least arguably).
>>How can you toss out meaningful criticisms without knowing the actual
>>process(es) currently being used by the core developers, if any?
>
>Ok, proof us wrong. Since you are into that actual secrete culture of
>the 'core' kernel developers, points us to the bug-tracking system to
>use to report bugs found by users in the OS called Linux.
I am not more than passingly familiar with the kernel lists.
I was just commenting on the fact that you apparently are not either,
and yet you seem perfectly willing to criticize processes that appear
at least based on the end results) to be working quite well.
I find that fact interesting. I normally analyze a situation at some
length before passing judgement. :-)
Their development processes can probably be improved, but whining about
it here in this unrelated newsgroup is NOT (IMO) a constructive way to
do it! I suggest you join the kernel mailing lists and read a while.
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Bloomington, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
+ VMWare + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
Docs? Why look at the Docs? Nurses are better! :-)
------------------------------
From: Andrew Dacey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.certification.cisco,alt.certification.mcse,alt.certification.network-plus,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: 6 certifications in 30 Days and 15+ College Credits!!!
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 05:40:14 GMT
"A. G." wrote:
>
> If I had $20,000 I wouldn't need to take any test.
Personally, I'd put the money towards a home lab. You could get a pretty
sweet CCIE lab for $15,000 (assuming you got stuff used) and then use
the other $5,000 for books and paying for travel/exam costs/etc.
Or, you could probably cut that down to $10,000 (with careful budgeting)
and use the other $10,000 to support yourself and study full time (if
you aren't currently working in an IT job).
Advantages:
1, after 30 days the course is done (and the knowledge is already
fading). But with the home lab, you can keep using it for as long as you need.
2. Racks of glowing lights are just way cooler.
3. With that much gear you could probably use it to heat your home.
4. Envy of every geek in the city.
5. After finishing your cert exams you have a couple of options. You can
sell the stuff off and get back most/all of the money you put in on
gear. Or, you could use the gear to run an ISP out of your basement.
Frugal
------------------------------
From: "Colin R. Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 01:39:44 -0400
Salvador Peralta wrote:
> The U.S. is a federal republic, which is why the preamble to the FEDERAL
> constitution contains the phrase "... and to the REPUBLIC ...".
That's not in the preamble to the US Constitution; it's in the Pledge of
Allegiance.
<snip>
------------------------------
From: Vladik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: [Q] Okidata 810e & large files
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 05:51:36 GMT
Hello,
no matter what I do I cannot get
Okidata 810e (not PS) to print large files
(like 2MB).
I know it is the problem with
ghostscript. I used StarOffice to create a
large presentation and I have the program installed on linux
and windows computers. So the same file can be printed from
star office on windows but not from star office on Linux.
The printer displays "Memory overflow". I even spent
$210 bucks to by more memory for my printer (just so
I can print from Linux (it was printing fine with 2MB
from windows, but now I have 4MB).
The only difference between my windows and linux machine is
the printer driver, on Windows it is native Okidata
drive, on Linux it is ghostscript. Not only ghostscript is slow
but also it cannot apparently convert from PS to PCL (I tried
laserjet and ljet4 drivers).
Does any one know a solution to this
problem?
Thanks in advance for any info,
Vladislav
------------------------------
From: Harlan Grove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.alpha
Subject: Re: sprintf bug?
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 06:08:00 GMT
In article <8gmhrd$jqj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
U.V. Ravindra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm using SuSE 6.3 (Kernel 2.2.13 glibc 2.1.2) on an Alpha EV67.
> Here's what I'm trying to do
>
> char buffr[4096+1]
>
> ...
> ...
> printf("before %s\n", buffr);
> sprintf(buffr, "0, 0, 0, ");
> printf("after %s\n", buffr);
>
> And I see the output:
>
> before dwki_nr_ibind(100, fname_var, 0,
> after 0, 0, 0,i
<snip>
Looks like a bug, but one not shared by i386 Red Hat 6.0 at least.
Try storing sprintf()'s result in an integer variable and printing that
value. Is it 8 or 9?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colquhoun)
Subject: Re: Files with TAR subscript
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 06:48:27 GMT
On Sat, 27 May 2000 03:30:05 GMT, Carlos Ulloa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|How can I read a file with a TAR subscript?
man tar
TAR files are archives of other files (often the source code
to a program, of a directory backup) and you need to extract the
individual files to read them.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Universal Life Church http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
xenaphobia: The fear of being beaten to a pulp by
a leather-clad, New Zealand woman.
------------------------------
From: Spawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.powerpc,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: WYSIWYG web page maker called Top Page
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 23:55:02 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> Dances With Crows wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 15 May 2000 21:40:21 +0100, Mark Wilden
> > <<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the ether:
> > >JEDIDIAH wrote:
> > >>
> > >> This is the point of view from which most of us justify our
> > >> dislike of visual HTML authoring tools actually.
> > >
> > >However, when presented with an argument for using such tools that has
> > >nothing to do with that point of view, most of 'you' are strangely
> > >silent...
> >
> > I'll bite, because I've seen this problem N+1 times:
> >
> > "WYSIAWYG"[0] tools are easier to start off with. They provide convenient
> > eye candy, and they make people think they're actually coding HTML. Then
> > the strange problems start... like, oh, MS FrontRage's automatic
>
> What about Amaya? The free W3C browser/editor? W3C creates and
> determines
> the standards. If their own tool can't do it then NOTHING and NO ONE
> can.
>
> patrick
>
IBM is porting WYSIAWYG web app called Top Page. Here is the url:
http://www.jp.ibm.com/esbu/E/toppage/index2.html
------------------------------
From: Jeff Grossman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: proftpd - guest users
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:36:30 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>In proftpd 1.2.0
>
>How can I limit certain users (not anonymous) from chdir to
>higher level of their home directories?
Check out the documentation at www.proftpd.net. But, I believe you
want DefaultRoot.
Jeff
---
Jeff Grossman ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
From: "David Cougle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Will Panasonic 8x4x32 IDE burner burn in linux?
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 02:38:26 -0600
Can someone please tell me if the Panasonic 8x4x32 IDE burner will burn in linux?
plz reply via email, thanx.
--
http://www.davidcougle.com
ICQ #3795561
Lunarbard on AOL(Instant Messenger)
Proverbs 15:3
Linux, operating system of the future
Fight The Apathy
------------------------------
From: Mark Wilden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 08:38:54 +0100
Salvador Peralta wrote:
>
> Technically speaking, citizens of the U.S. do not elect the president
Technically speaking, perhaps. In reality, they do (with the exception
you noted).
> truman was elected with fewer popular votes than dewey had), nor do we
> elect other members of the executive branch, or any members of the
> federal judiciary.
No, we elect those who do, however, directly or indirectly.
_Representative_ democracy.
------------------------------
From: Mark Wilden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 08:44:21 +0100
Praedor Tempus wrote:
>
> Salvador is correct. You do NOT rule thru your representatives.
> You select a representative that you feel will best support your
> interests but they act on their own.
You select a representative that you feel will be the best
representative, and accept that they may know more than you do about
some things.
If the people don't rule (again, in theory), who does? What gets
prepended to -cracy, if not the demos?
(Of course, I'm quite aware that the people don't _really_ rule--I'm
just talking about the structure of the government.)
> A Senator is not simply a mouthpiece for the majority of voters
> in their districts/states. The US government is NOT designed to
> be majority rules. The US government is devised to protect against
> the "tyranny of the majority". The whole system is devised to
> protect the minority from mob/majority rule.
That's all very true. The people delegate to their representatives, just
as I delegate to the people I hire when I manage them.
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RH Linux 6.2 and FAT32.
Date: 27 May 2000 07:49:26 GMT
Lonni J. Friedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: THis has nothing to do with Redhat. Linux does not get installed on a
: fat32 filesystem. Linux gets installed on an ext2 file system. Linux
: can read/write fat32.
It's nothing to do with redhat, true (if you can make up yourself for
RHs deficiencies), but flase: linux can install just fine on a fat32
system (as / partition, even). It's been that way for years and years.
Even redhat can be made to do it. Just copy an existing RH system to
c:\linux, change it's / entry in the /etc/fstab to read blah umsdos
blah, run umssync on the directory, and reboot.
Or you can mount the root partition as a loopback file in the dos
partition.
See zipslack for examples of how to do it.
Peter
------------------------------
From: Andreas Kahari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: which is the best linux distro - please vote
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 08:04:09 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
joe 90 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [1] Have you used more than one distribution of linux?
> [ ] Yes (please go to question 2 - 'jedi' )
> [ ] No (please go to question 5)
>
> [2] Which distributions of linux have you used - please list;
[cut]
[0] What was the purpose of the above "vote"?
[1] How many times have you seen the question "Which distro is the best"
on c.o.l.m?
[2] Why didn't you go for the Linux Distribution HOWTO at
<URL:http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Distribution-HOWTO.html>?
[3] Did you try looking at <URL:http://www.linux.com/> or
<URL:http://www.linux.org/> for info on the different distributions?
[4] Did you know about comp.os.linux.advocacy?
/A
--
# Andreas K�h�ri, <URL:http://hello.to/andkaha/>.
# All junk e-mail is reported to the
# appropriate authorities, no exceptions.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: RH 6.0 (HD) installation problem
Date: 27 May 2000 08:34:07 GMT
Iwan,
Thanks for the response.
> Does the BIOS see the hard disk? If so, does it have it correctly
It does see the c/h/s parameters, but not the size. I can even install MS DOS
6.2 on it, except it won't boot from HD. Once I boot from a dos floppy, I can
read/write on the HD. When booting, it doesn't complain, only freezes. Out
of desperation, I'm thinking about putting the disk in another PC, with
newer Bios, and try to fdisk/format there from Linux. My suspicion is that
it's a boot sector mess, but the linux install can't see the HD (so won't
run fdisk on it).
> If the BIOS does see the hard disk, then try loading up on OS you
>can completely run from a floppy or RAM (rescue disk distributions of
Or/and I'll try this.
Cheers,
Akos
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: How to read mail automatically and extracted data into database
Date: 27 May 2000 08:49:44 GMT
Hi,
My problem is that some of our customers give their
orders through email. In stead of typing order requests
line by line, I would like to find out an approach
to automatically save them into the database. Please
help me. Even a possible hint is appricated.
The database server is a RedHat Linux running SQL server.
This machine has only ppp connection to the Internet.
My plan now is to write a cron script which would read
mails in xxx@host, parse the mails, and then add the
order into the database. However, I don't know what
program could help me read mails without user
interactive instructions and by what means the received
orders, after they have been parsed, can be added into
the database.
Please help. Thanks.
You can reply on this group or give me a mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark White)
Subject: Re: problem with isdn
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 09:02 +0100 (BST)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan)
wrote:
> i tried to connect (kde/ kppp) with the internet, but the error "No MSN/
> EAZ"
Change the init string to include "AT&E" then your phone number without
the dialling code (in UK anyway)
Mark...
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
