Linux-Misc Digest #890, Volume #18 Thu, 4 Feb 99 00:13:17 EST
Contents:
Printing with WP 8 (Greg Truax)
fetchmail - tin hostname conflict ("Bob Cunius")
Java in NS4.5 not working (Kaustav Bhattacharya)
Re: Getting JDK 1.17b working on Redhat 5.2 w 3.3.3.1 X (Ed Young)
Re: Advice for Microsoft-haters (Darin Johnson)
Re: No luck with 2.2.x kernel on RH 5.2! (Ray Willis)
Re: QIC02 TAPE, SuSE 5.3.. how to install and read? Thank you fellows in advance!
(Thomas Wolff)
Difference between SuSe 6.0-evaluation and 6.0? (Arnold Leung)
Re: Advice for Microsoft-haters ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: X won't run yet (Mark Paulus)
No luck with 2.2.x kernel on RH 5.2! ("Greg Waugh")
USB PC Cameras and Linux ("Hue Jass")
Re: Linux 2.2.1 doesn't power down system (Mike Wright)
Re: HELP!!!! MP3 does not play (John Burg)
What's the linux equivalent of the StartUp folder? (Brent Miller)
Re: Kernel 2.2.0 problems (David Pace)
Re: buffer size w/ vi (Ed Young)
Re: Sick of Windows, newbie thinking about Linux (Wildman, the Cuberstalker)
Re: MP3 Encoder for Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Best speech recognition software to control Linux? (Aaron Siegel)
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers (Jeremy Mathers)
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers (Kinkster)
Re: UI stuff (was: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class.) (Jeremy Crabtree)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Greg Truax <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Printing with WP 8
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:49:56 -0500
I am wondering about printer drivers with Word Perfect 8 for Linux. I
have a Canon BJC-4200 and there is no driver that comes with the
package. Is there anyplace where I can get the proper diver? Has
anyone else successfully used any BJC 4000 series printers with WP? I
would appreciate any help that anybody can provide.
Greg Truax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Bob Cunius" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: fetchmail - tin hostname conflict
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:01:20 -0500
hi,
i have a problem trying to get fetchmail and tin to work with the same
hostname. i can fetch mail from my nntp server if my hostname is
localhost.localdomain, but if i try to post a message to a newsgroup in tin
it says my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] instead of
[EMAIL PROTECTED] so i figured i could just change my hostname to
ix.netcom.com and i'd be fine. instead, fetchmail now reposts my mail to my
popd account and i never receive the mail. can someone tell me what i
should do to sovle this?
thanks,
bob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 21:48:26 +0000
From: Kaustav Bhattacharya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Java in NS4.5 not working
Hi all,
right, having just recompiled qt using shared libraries my linux no
longer takes up oodles of RAM and starts to page. Next problem:
I have Netscape 4.5 installed and it works fine apart from Java. If I
goto any sites with java applets on them, nothing happens. No grey box,
now "initialising applet blah" message, no nothing. I checked to see if
java was enabled in NS and it was. Does this mean I have to download
SUN's java plugin for NS and use that for Java? or is there a way to
get it to work without going through all that polava?
Kozzey
--
Kaustav Bhattacharya
http://www.kozzey.dircon.co.uk/cam.html
http://redhotcountry.co.uk
ICQ: 665226
------------------------------
From: Ed Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Getting JDK 1.17b working on Redhat 5.2 w 3.3.3.1 X
Date: 3 Feb 1999 22:31:37 GMT
I believe that libXpm.so.4 is provided by a proprietary X server.
There is another JDK out there which does not include this library.
Look for:
jdk-1.1.7-1a.glibc.i386.rpm
Robert K Krimen wrote:
>
> as the subject states, i'm having problems getting the blackdown.org
> implementation of the jdk working with the latest redhat and x.
>
> i'm getting library error messages when trying to run 'java'
> (i686/green_threads/):
> libXpm.so.4: Cannot find file
>
> anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
> ukrihr00-at-umail-dot-ucsb-dot-edu
------------------------------
From: Darin Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advice for Microsoft-haters
Date: 03 Feb 1999 14:21:34 -0800
> > Oh, It wasn't a digital computer, if that makes any difference, it was
> > analog mechanical.
Electro-mechanical too which is important. remember that a
slide rule is analog mechanical too.
--
Darin Johnson
"Particle Man, Particle Man, doing the things a particle can"
------------------------------
From: Ray Willis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.questions,linux.dev.kernel,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: No luck with 2.2.x kernel on RH 5.2!
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 21:21:59 -0600
yes it seems like your missing /dev/kmem kmem is a kernel device for your
kernels memory managment. I have no idea why that is gone. you could try a
MAKEDEV
in your /dev dir but Im not sure if that would help or hinder. Sorry. It seems
like linux is getting less stable the further we move with it. duno why. I had
a problem one time with my network config just blowing up on me for no reason,
as in I havent touched it for weeks and just let it do its thing. one morning
bam its network config just decided to blow up on me. then I rebooted and it
started saying delaying eth2 initialization. This is starting to bother me a
little.
Later Again,
RayW
Greg Waugh wrote:
> Done it all... in exactly that order. This is the only other error I get on
> boot.
>
> Feb 3 21:45:24 bert kernel: Error seeking in /dev/kmem
> Feb 3 21:45:24 bert kernel: Error adding kernel module table entry.
>
> The network claims it's there, but I can't ping anything. Modules that I've
> compiled into the kernel cannot be found as if they were modules that were
> deleted. I had to disable all services (sendmail, named, httpd) just to get
> it to boot cause they cause the system to hang. I get the same error with
> the sound driver and midi modules (cannot load module midi) even though they
> aren't modules... they're compiled into the kernel!
>
> I'm at a loss...
>
> Ray Willis wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >ok, have you compiled the kernel in this order?
> >
> >make menuconfig
> ><configure the kernel>
> >make dep
> >make clean
> >make install
> >make modules
> >make modules_install
> >then edit /etc/lilo.conf
> >and add the kernel vmlinuz for a boot image.
> >do not remove the lilo.conf lines that you are currently booting
> >then do a lilo
> >that should solve a few problems. :)
> >
> >later,
> >
> >RayW
> >
> >Greg Waugh wrote:
> >
> >> I'm trying to upgrade my 1 month old RH 5.2 system to 2.2.1... and I'm
> >> having no luck! Pretty simple box, P166, 2940U SCSI, 64MB SDRAM, 3Com
> >> 3C509B NIC. Anyway, nothing seems to work right. I've upgraded
> net-tools,
> >> modutils, ipchains, etc. And nothing. I get errors about modules cannot
> be
> >> located, but most of them were things I linked right into the kernel!
> >> Anyway, nothing starts because the network is so funky. I'm using IP
> >> aliasing and it gives me errors about aliasing not supported in the
> kernel
> >> even though I compiled it in (not as a module). Also get errors that the
> >> module st cannot be loaded (even though I compiled it into the kernel).
> >> Anyway, I can't even boot the kernel to figure out what's going on since
> all
> >> the services hang...
> >>
> >> Feb 3 20:33:36 bert kernel: Cannot find map file.
> >> Feb 3 20:33:36 bert kernel: Error seeking in /dev/kmem
> >> Feb 3 20:33:36 bert kernel: Error adding kernel module table entry.
> >>
> >> I get this error in the boot logs, but I know I've put the System.map
> file
> >> in the correct place... /boot/System.map... right? I've never build a
> >> kernel under RH before... I've build a million kernels under other dists,
> >> and never once had a problem. (I just build 2.2.1 on my Slackware 95
> >> machine that's approaching 4 years old... no problems at all).
> >>
> >> Any help with RH kernel building would be very appreciated! Thanks!
> >>
> >> --
> >> ------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Greg Waugh ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> >
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas Wolff)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: QIC02 TAPE, SuSE 5.3.. how to install and read? Thank you fellows in
advance!
Date: 3 Feb 1999 22:37:50 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (M. Buchenrieder) writes:
: "Blackey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: >Hello!
: >I have old fashion QIC02 Tape (150MB extended to 250MB) which is connected
: >through slot as modem etc and then, as a 25pin connector to the external
: >drive. I think that manufacturer is ARCHIVE.
: >According instructions I made new kernel but I don't know how to init
: >(mount) and to read data from tape.
: Is your QIC02 card found at bootup ? If so, reading and writing
: files from/onto the tape can be done with "tar" or "taper" .
: The drive should be addressed as /dev/tpqic150 .
I have a Wangtek QIC02 card and streamer. The hard problem I had with
it was that it wouldn't work with any other IRQ and DMA settings than
those also used by the SoundBlaster as a default. As there is not yet
any decent boot initialisation for the SoundBlaster available for Linux,
I have to boot via DOS/loadlin (using the config.sys boot menu) and run
a DOS SoundBlaster initialisation before calling loadlin in order to
draw it away from IRQ 5 and DMA 1.
Thomas
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arnold Leung)
Subject: Difference between SuSe 6.0-evaluation and 6.0?
Date: 3 Feb 99 22:47:30 GMT
On ftp.suse.com/pub/SuSE-Linux/, what's the difference between SuSe
6.0-evaluation and 6.0?
--
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advice for Microsoft-haters
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:32:29 GMT
"al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Go the republic! Screw the Queen
*Shudder* You _really_ don't want to think to closely about what you
just wrote.....
Bernie
--
============================================================================
"It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy...
...let's go exploring"
Calvin's final words, on December 31st, 1995
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Paulus)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: X won't run yet
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:40:24 GMT
Do you have network support and/or ethernet support
configured? If you do an 'ifconfig', you should see a
lo0 entry for your loopback driver. If you don't, you should
set up a loopback driver to address 127.0.0.1.
On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:16:47, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Son Trung Nguyen) wrote:
> I just built X and tried to run it but I got the following errors:
>
> #startx
>
> _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed
> _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: server already running
>
> Fatal server error:
> Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't
> already running
>
> When reporting a problem related to a server crash, please send
> the full server output, not just the last messages
>
> _X11TransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno = 111
> giving up.
> xinit: Connection refused (errno 111): unable to connect to X server
> xinit: No such process (errno 3): Server error.
>
> =============================================================================
>
> I am running kernel 2.2.0pre9 on an HP Vectra VL5/166MMX machine.
> The monitor says Hewlett Packard Ultra VGA1280, but I am not sure who
> really makes it.
>
> I tried a few things like making sure 'gpm' is not running, and trying
> to run 'startx' as normal and root user. But nothing seems to work.
>
> Can someone help? Thanks, and please email.
**** Please remove the NO.SPAM when replying ****
------------------------------
From: "Greg Waugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.questions,linux.dev.kernel,linux.redhat.misc,umich.linux
Subject: No luck with 2.2.x kernel on RH 5.2!
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:13:31 -0500
I'm trying to upgrade my 1 month old RH 5.2 system to 2.2.1... and I'm
having no luck! Pretty simple box, P166, 2940U SCSI, 64MB SDRAM, 3Com
3C509B NIC. Anyway, nothing seems to work right. I've upgraded net-tools,
modutils, ipchains, etc. And nothing. I get errors about modules cannot be
located, but most of them were things I linked right into the kernel!
Anyway, nothing starts because the network is so funky. I'm using IP
aliasing and it gives me errors about aliasing not supported in the kernel
even though I compiled it in (not as a module). Also get errors that the
module st cannot be loaded (even though I compiled it into the kernel).
Anyway, I can't even boot the kernel to figure out what's going on since all
the services hang...
Feb 3 20:33:36 bert kernel: Cannot find map file.
Feb 3 20:33:36 bert kernel: Error seeking in /dev/kmem
Feb 3 20:33:36 bert kernel: Error adding kernel module table entry.
I get this error in the boot logs, but I know I've put the System.map file
in the correct place... /boot/System.map... right? I've never build a
kernel under RH before... I've build a million kernels under other dists,
and never once had a problem. (I just build 2.2.1 on my Slackware 95
machine that's approaching 4 years old... no problems at all).
Any help with RH kernel building would be very appreciated! Thanks!
--
==========================================
Greg Waugh ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
From: "Hue Jass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,comp.dcom.videoconf,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: USB PC Cameras and Linux
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:32:52 -0500
I know there is a project to bring USB support to LINUX, but I don't know
how close to supporting PC cameras that project is (I tried to get to
http://www.nv.org/linux/USB/, but it was so slow, it timed out).
Are there any drivers and applications out there now that will work with USB
cameras such as the ViCAM and Logitech QuickCAM Pro?
- Thanks
------------------------------
From: Mike Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Linux 2.2.1 doesn't power down system
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:29:48 +0000
Kent Robotti wrote:
> In uk.comp.os.linux Richard Lewin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have a Dell Inspiron 3200 and have just upgraded from kernel 2.0.36 to
> > 2.2.1 and everything seems to work fine apart from one thing. Linux will
> > not power down the computer on a system halt. I have enabled the option
> > in the kernel and have chosen exactly the same APM options as for 2.0.36.
> > It worked fine in 2.0.36. Does anyone know how to fix this?
>
> > I would appreciated replies by email. Thanks very much in advance.
>
> > Richard Lewin
>
> Add -p to the halt command.
>
> halt -p
I have the same problem - tries "halt -p" but is just says "invalid parameter"
- anyone know what the version of halt required is, and what package contains
it ?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Burg)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: HELP!!!! MP3 does not play
Date: 4 Feb 1999 03:38:02 GMT
On Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:32:28 -0200, Rodrigo Castro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I have Linux 2.2.1 in a Pentium box. I have always played Mp3 files in
>linux with x11amp player but recently it stopped. I don't what happens
>but it plays a little and stops. I can play waves and whatever I want
>--snip--
I've had the same problem, since upgrading to 2.2 from 2.0.36. My machine
is a Pentium II, with a genuine soundblaster card. The only difference between
your problem and mine is that I can't hear any of the mp3 file at all... the
player (I've tried amp, x11amp, maplay, and mpg123) acts as if it is playing
normally, but no sound comes out. Like Rodrigo, I can play wav files without
difficulty.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
John Burg
--
#!/bin/sh -
set - `type $0` 'tr "[a-zA-Z]" "[n-za-mN-ZA-M]"';while [ "$2" != "" ];do \
shift;done; echo 'frq -a -rc '`echo "$0"| $1 `'>$UBZR/.`rpub signature|'`\
echo $1|$1`'`;rpub "Jr ner fvtangher bs obet. Erfvfgnapr vf shgvyr!"'|$1|sh
------------------------------
From: Brent Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: What's the linux equivalent of the StartUp folder?
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 03:14:13 +0000
I'm trying to get linux to run a small program in the background
every time I log in and I was wondering how I would do that.
Suggestions?
Thanks,
Brent
------------------------------
From: David Pace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Kernel 2.2.0 problems
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 22:00:02 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In article <794pfm$6h5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Dan Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In comp.os.linux.misc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > : I compiled kernel 2.2.0 the other day and when I tried to boot the
> kernel...i
> > : would get a messages saying "uncompressing linux and now booting the kernel"
> > : and it would just hang right there.....wouldn't do a thing. In fact...this
> > : exact thing happened on 2 different machines. On one of the machines(my
> home
> > : machine), I use loadlin to boot the kernel. On the other machine(a test
> > : server at my ISP), the kernel is typically booted using LILO. Anyone have
> > : any ideas as to why it won't boot?
> >
> > Are you sure you got the compressed zImage file. And did you run lilo
> > after installing the new kernel.
>
> Well since I am loading the kernel using loadlin...i wouldnt have to run lilo
> again would i?
>
> >
I had the same problem with 2.2.1
I changed the config params and got it to work.
I am not sure which one (or perhaps to many conflicting)
caused the problem.
--
David Pace Free Trading software: http://www.daveware.com
------------------------------
From: Ed Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: buffer size w/ vi
Date: 4 Feb 1999 03:54:01 GMT
You might try a perl, sed, or gawk script instead of hand editing.
Good luck...
Ryan Daly wrote:
>
> Does anyone know how to modify the buffer size that vi uses?
>
> I'm trying to edit a large file (240mb) and it's complaining that the
> file is too big.
>
> Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!!
>
> --
> Ryan Daly
> Concurrent Technologies Corporation (CTC)
> 100 CTC Drive
> Johnstown, PA 15904-1935 USA
>
> PGP Fingerprint: 91 3E E1 09 16 D1 5A 67 1A CA 16 C7 E0 C1 74 72
> PGP Key: ftp.ctc.com:/pub/PGP-keys/daly.asc
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wildman, the Cuberstalker)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Sick of Windows, newbie thinking about Linux
Date: 4 Feb 1999 00:35:26 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:13:21 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>1. What's the best distribution out there? Caldera or RedHat?
>Advantages/disadvantages of each? (I know it's free, but I want a commercial
>one because I'm new, and they come with documentation and support)
Well... free distributions have documentation and support too. Redhat and
Caldera "add value" - commercial software you can't download. Comparing
Redhat support at this time to the support you get on the Net, you can save
$20 by getting a cheap CD and a book. (www.lsl.com or www.cheapbytes.com)
Caldera may have better support, though.
But if you need to have your hand held, Linux may not be the OS for you.
Certainly you don't need your hand held, right?
>2. Is Linux 100% 32 bit? The main reason why I don't like Windows 9x is
>because it contains 16 bit code, which is a waste of today's Pentium II and
>Pentium III processors.
16 bit code is a waste of a 486 for that matter. The only reason Win95 has
16 bit code is for backwards compatibility. There never was a 16 bit Linux.
Nuff said.
>3. Does Linux support DVD drives?
>4. What graphics cards, nay scratch that, what hardware (graphics, sound
>cards, zip drives, modems, etc) is it compatible with, and do Linux drivers
>exist for said hardware?
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/Linux/docs/HOWTO/Hardware-HOWTO
>5. I've worked with IRIX and Solaris in the past. Is Linux anything like
>these?
Yes, only better :)
>6. Where are the best places to purchase/buy Linux software?
I'm not sure what you mean. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket,
I'll sell you some stuff I've worked on. Of course, you could just get the
source for free. :D
>7. When Intel's 64 bit processors are released, will Linux migrate to a
>completely 64 bit architecture?
No. That is against the design philosophy of Linux. Making the OS only run
on bigger and faster computers that fewer and richer people have is
Microsoft's mission, not ours.
I think a better question to have asked would be "Will Linux be ported to
64 bit platforms?" The answer in this case is yes. And it's already becoming
history.
--
Wildman, the Cuberstalker
Thank you, Microsoft, and please get out of the way.
Fight spam - http://www.cauce.org/
DO NOT SPAM THIS ADDRESS
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MP3 Encoder for Linux
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 03:10:56 GMT
In article <79a160$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jens Reinsberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Steve Harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> SH> Hello,
>
> SH> I was wondering what people are using these days to encode MP3 files
> SH> under Linux. I was using the 8hz encoder several months ago, and liked
> SH> it a lot, but now I see they've pulled it off their website due to
> SH> possible problems with Fraunhauer(sp?) :(
>
> I user bladeenc for linux. Sorry for that but I don't know the URL to get
> it from.
>
> Bye, Jennes
>
Try MP3Studio for Linux (http://mp3.nederland.net/)
It uses l3enc and l3dec by Fraunhaufer
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: Aaron Siegel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Best speech recognition software to control Linux?
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 20:41:49 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> : jerryn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> :> I use KVOICECONTROL, it's free and it's pretty accurate! PLUS you can
> :> read the code and LEARN HOW TO WRITE YOUR OWN SPEECH RECOGNITION
> :> TOOLS. So expand your mind, use kvoicecontrol
> :
> : Where can one find this lovely piece of software?
> :
>
> Yes, I would like to know too... Is anyone aware of any
> free handwriting recognition software? Currently I'm rather
> interested in all sorts of alternative input methods - my wrists
> are giving me gyp, and besides, handwriting recognition software
> could easily be hacked to recognize Chinese characters.
> --
>
> Boudewijn Rempt | www.xs4all.nl/~bsarempt
I found speech recognition software at the following sites
http://svr-www.eng.cam.ac.uk/~ajr/abbot.html
http://werner.ira.uka.de/
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeremy Mathers)
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:10:14 GMT
In article <01be4f81$44374180$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Eric Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...
>Since Microsoft's lawyers themselves have described IE4 as an "application"
>in other courts (even after the beginning of the DOJ suit), I see no
>reason to argue that web browsers are (yet) legitimately part of any OS.
I think that's the key to it all. As some other poster pointed out,
the DOJ may not know a browser from a spreadsheet, but they are
trained to spot inconsistencies. As is true in all walks of life, the
problem with telling lies is keeping them consistent and MS's tangled
web is about to crash in upon themselves. As a good friend of mine
says, "Always tell the truth. It's less to remember."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kinkster)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:11:59 GMT
On Wed, 03 Feb 99 12:31:42 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Martin ) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>Art VanDelay allegedly wrote:
>>>On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:12:44 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kinkster) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On
>>>>m$ _crossed_ the line when the integrated the browser and OS out of
>>>>their paranoia of what applications running on NS could do to Windows.
>>>
>>>This doesn't make any sense.
>>
>>Makes plenty of sense.
>>
>
>..
>
>>
>>> or CD-Player people,
>>
>>Of course, that's not a major application like a web browser.
>>
>
>Seems strange to me that the establishment decided to make a stand over a
>web-browser. When I first started to use the web, it was with Mosaic which was
>completely free. Netscape latched onto the idea and tried to commercialize it
>though they released their products for free download over the net for a long
>time. There are still free web-browsers around - how can you describe it as a
>major application?
It's a "major application" compared to say Notepad or Wordpad. Check
out the size differences, Notepad and Wordpad etc. I consider to be
"applets" not full-blown applications.
> And why prosecute MS for making theirs free as well?
No one is prosecuting m$ for making theirs free, they made it free and
couldn't give it away so their last resort was to bundle/integrate it
into to OS to finally get it on desktops.
m$ wants to control the web portal besides making sure Windows doesn't
become a commodity OS on top of which runs NS and other applications,
read some of m$ internal e-mail's available on lots of web sites to
see m$'s _true_ plans and paranoia over NS.
If you think m$ integration of IE into Win9X was just out of thoughts
for "consumer benefit" you're awfully naive.
> I use
>the web every day - and I pay for the service - but I would never consider
>paying for a browser while there are usable free ones available. I know
>several people who dislike MS IE explorer, but they use old versions of
>Netscape from before the time that it was necessary to pay for it!
It's not necessary to pay for it now , so they can use the latest and
greatest version.
>My Redhat
>Linux came with a copy of Netscape which I use - I was never asked to pay for
>it - is that anti-competitive?
NO, Redhat doesn't have a 90+ share of the desktop market and NS
_isn't_ integrated into Linux and isn't owned by RH.
>
>Martin.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeremy Crabtree)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI stuff (was: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class.)
Date: 4 Feb 1999 04:11:37 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Matthias Warkus allegedly wrote:
[SNIP]
>Don't flame me, but I think that an intelligently-made agent that
>works a bit like that paperclip could make an application friendlier.
See the "Perfect Expert" from WordPerfect 7 for Windows, it's a handy little
tool. It let's you ask plain-english questions, and get back the appropriate
help pages. Best of all, it's not insulting or degrading like the paperclip.
[SNIP]
--
"Being myself a remarkably stupid fellow, I have had to unteach myself
the difficulties, and now beg to present to my fellow fools the parts
that are not hard" --Silvanus P. Thompson, from "Calculus Made Easy."
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