Linux-Misc Digest #93, Volume #20 Fri, 7 May 99 06:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: RedHat 6 bash: set -o vi broke? (Keith Fish)
Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really) (John S. Dyson)
How to burn a Linux CD from NT (jmsalvo)
Re: Pro-Unix vs anti-WinTel (Alexander Viro)
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (returning to %252522GNU Communism%252522) (jik-)
Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Majordomo (daniel azzarri)
Re: Is Unix a single user operating system? (Jesus Monroy, Jr.)
Re: How to filter the list of the files by permissions? (Scott Lanning)
Re: Is Unix a single user operating system? (Jesus Monroy, Jr.)
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (returning to %252522GNU Communism%252522) (Stefaan A
Eeckels)
mSQL installation - directory routines ("Greg Plumbly")
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (Ed Avis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat.install,linux.redhat,comp.os.linux.install
Subject: Re: RedHat 6 bash: set -o vi broke?
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 04:30:16 GMT
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > anyone install red hat 6.0?
> >
> > Ive done it, but bash set -o vi doesn't work?!?!?
> >
> > not only is command history not there, but editing broke too....
> >
>
> I had the same problem.
>
> I added the following to /etc/inputrc:
>
> set keymap vi
> set editing-mode vi
ditto, i wasn't as clever ... i just deleted all the screwy looking
escape sequences (last N lines) and the first line of /etc/inputrc
to make it look the same as what it did for RH5.2. That also did
the trick.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John S. Dyson)
Crossposted-To:
talk.politics.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really)
Date: 7 May 1999 01:42:12 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Costello) writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mark S. Bilk wrote:
>> >For each person, it depends on timescale or personal
>> >interest. Some systems elevate a "class" of individuals to take
>> >advantage of others ("practical communism" and GPL),
>>
>> Amazing! Exactly what "class of individuals" is enabled
>> to "take advantage of others" by means of the GPL? All of
>> humanity minus Bill Gates?
>
> The GPL is a crock. It forces openness. That's not freedom.
> You like walking outside sometimes, I would bet. Would you like
> being *FORCED* to walk outside all the time? That's the key
> problem with the GPL and many recognize it.
>
GPL doesn't force openness... GPL forces the offer of redistribution
of source code to those who receive binaries. In no way does GPL
really encourage the dissemination of ideas and techology, but it
does force developers to consider the opportunity cost of
basing their costly invention on a platform that apriori restricts
they way that they can profitably do business.
GPL doesn't guarantee any sort of freedom, but mostly imposes
restrictions that make the GPLed works less financially interesting
than free software on which to base derived works. In fact, alot of
commercial software has more favorable terms for developers of derived
works than GPL. (This is, of course, assuming that the value-added
developer significantly values their invention based upon other
works.) If one is mostly parroting designs, and the added invention
is trivial, then the effect of GPL minimizing the opportunity doesn't
have very much effect. Given substantial inventions, then GPL
is extremely disadvantageous.
A good example is the C-library that sometimes comes with OSes. If it
was GPLed, and also was delivered as an add-on library, not part of
the OS, then the essentially trivial OS interface library limits the
value of works based (even partially) upon it. This makes that GPLed
library less valueable to the community than an equivalent non-GPLed,
but free version. If one didn't care about the derived works being free,
then a commercially licensed library, with appropriate redistribution
terms can actually be less expensive in the longer term than the
"pseudo-free" GPLed works. Nothing is taken away from the community
by the small-time developer, consulting firm or large company making
profit on any piece of software, and it is really a straw man to worry
about anyone profiting, even excessively. No-one is hurt.
--
John | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | it makes one look stupid
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | and it irritates the pig.
------------------------------
From: jmsalvo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: How to burn a Linux CD from NT
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 02:46:10 GMT
At home, I do not have a CD-Writer, though I have both NT and Linux installed.
At the office, we have a CD-Writer (HP Plus 7200i) on an NT workstation (no
Linux boxes). no one is allowed to dial-in, company policy.
Can anyone suggest how I can copy a Linux CD to a CD-R using NT with the HP
software that came with HP Plus 7200i, which is named CD Copier?
I have read that Rock Ridge is needed for long filenames, but how can I turn
on this feature in NT or in the software? The method used by others that I
have read in other posts assumes that you have the CD-writer in a box that
has both NT and Linux installed, which is not the case here. Nor is there a
way for me to copy contents from my PC at home to work as I have no Zip or
whatever, only floppies.
Thanks
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alexander Viro)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Pro-Unix vs anti-WinTel
Date: 7 May 1999 02:50:40 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has Linux completely forgotten its Unix origins? No, of course not.
> However, is the bulk of current Linux development pushing towards
> the desktop and away from age old Unix practices? Yes, very much
<RANT>
Please, s/Linux/RH and SuSE/, OK? Linux is kernel. For $DEITY sake, stop
spreading bullshit - we have enough of this ignorant drivel from "duh Linux
advocates", pox on their little pointy heads.
> so. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, it just isn't Unix.
Cool said. Now, pull your head from the convenient place where it is located
and look at the Debian, OK?
> Not everything has to be or even should be Unix; Someone has to
> build the big pretty buttons for the masses and I'd love to see
> Linux take that role from MS. So far, they are doing great.
May you be damned. And I'm quite serious - may you have ill luck for that.
<chuckle> may Windows-lovers find FreeBSD and pester FreeBSD community
as they are pestering us now. And personally for you I'ld wish five years
of helldesking a bunch of Mac lusers, adminning Slowlaris 2.1, HP-SUX 6.0
and Xenix 286 with sendmail 4 running on AIDX and namesewer on NT. Oh,
and being micromanaged, indeed.
[snip]
> Of course you can run KDE on FreeBSD (I do, but only to support a
> few KDE based apps). Does FreeBSD push KDE, GNOME, and the rest of
> the desktop style code the way Linux does? No, not in the least.
> Do you see tons of big button GUI apps being built under or for
> FreeBSD? No, you don't. They are almost all in the Linux camp.
> More over they could care less about Unix and X and have often
> stated as much publicly (see the KDE list archives).
So you are happy that shitters prefer to crap near Linux. Great heart, huh?
[snip]
>: however, the linux kernel or freebsd kernel present largely the same api
>: as any other flavor of unix.
>
> Unix kernel != Unix system
Right. And there are several different userlands around the Linux (kernel).
Which one do you mean?
[snip]
> Playing the Linux patch of the week, RPM dependency "go fish", or
WTF *is* RPM? I don't have such thing on any of my Linux boxen. RPM is
the worst packaging system used on Linux-based distributions. Who gave
you an idea that everyone is using this FPOS? D'oh... "It's UNIX, so you
are using SMIT, right? - Wrong, UNIX != AIDX"
And WTF was the "patch of the week", again? Snapshot of -CURRENT? Diff between
-RELEASE and -STABLE?
Aaarrrgh... As if Windows lusers pestering us were not enough. Nah... Let's
bloody add insult to injury. That's the ticket. WAY TO GO, BIFF!!!1!!!!!11!
Sure thing, them Linux hackers are "pushing towards the Wind^Wdesktop". If
they would want UNIX they'ld switch to FreeBSD, sure... Bullshit. And
incidentially you've lowered yourself to the level of advocates. Wonderful.
Frankly, I expected better from you. Sheesh...
</RANT>
Sigh... Sorry for that rant. It was the bad day and I'm *really* sick and
tired of luser calls, spam, luser calls, this BS, spam, this BS with spam,
this BS with luser calls, this BS with debugging, this BS, sendmail.cf with
spam, sendmail.cf with this BS, this BS with BS... aaarrrgggghhhhh...
--
"You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!"
"Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 00:06:44 -0700
From: jik- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism (returning to %252522GNU Communism%252522)
So, it is utterly pointless talking to you. I never conceeded shit.
Litteracy has evolved through the years. I also did not say that I
appreciate art and not literacy...but hey if you want to be a moron and
puts words in my mouth go for it....pisses me off to the extreem but
hey, your an idiot its your way I guess.
Yep, lets just stop teaching people how to read and write, the skill is
pretty unimportant,...I see your point now. I guess I will just tell my
neice that people have decided to be retards voluntarily now so reading
and writing just isn't taught anymore.
Fuck it, I don't even know why I am even talking to such a dipshit...
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows
Date: 7 May 1999 02:01:17 -0500
In article <7gt88o$aec$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Vernon Schryver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>But none of the above may be the critical factor if the real problem
>>is that for some of the web requests you send a query to an
>>external database and the responses come back slighly slower than
>>the requests come in. You end up with an increasing number of
>>processes consuming memory but nothing else is really wrong -
>>the processes are all waiting on network I/O.
>> ...
>
>In this kind of situation, the hacks in inetd and sendmail to stop
>listen()ing for new connections is a good, cheap, effective solution.
Hmmm, that reminds me. I've seen sendmail do some horrible things
when someone had a box configured to start a queue run every 30
seconds then sent something to a huge list of addresses.
>Simply stop forking (or whatever) for new incoming work when you get
>behind. This mechanism is equally useful whether the work requests are
>for port 23, 25, 513, or 80. Continuing to promise to do more and getting
>farther behind is not a feature, but a bug that invites denial of service
>attacks and unscheduled reboots. Recall accepting too much work was the
>substance SYN bombing problem, and that the fixes are all ultimately based
>on saying "no" to more work when the queues are full.
This is the right idea, but apache only offers to limit the number of
processes to some fixed limit. However, the problem happens when
a CGI is executing too slowly due to a bug or external problem. The
number of httpd processes alone would probably be OK, but now I've
got a perl process also for each httpd (which isn't the normal case).
If the perls are mostly stalled waiting for network I/O, the load
won't be especially high either. The concept I need is for apache
to not start additional children if more than a specified amount
of swap is being used. Even that might not work if a large number
of processes were started serving static pages, and then the CGI
requests started coming.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: daniel azzarri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: 5col.comp.linux
Subject: Re: Majordomo
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 10:56:03 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
whoouuuuu... hold your horses!!
perl in redhat5.2 is f*cked up, so you have to upgrade the perl-rpm with
the latest in order for majordomo to work.
//dan
Cameron Spitzer wrote:
> Majordomo requires Perl and something like Sendmail.
> Most Linux distributions include Majordomo, and it works
> as shipped.
>
> Qmail is not enough like Sendmail to work with Majordomo as shipped,
> but the shims are pretty simple.
> ( |forward `cat /var/majordom/lists/typical-list`
> in a .qmail file will work.)
>
> Cameron
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Wm. Josiah Erikson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Is Majordomo available for Linux? Any pointers if I want to run a small
> >list server on my Linux box?
> > Please cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Thanks much,
> > Josiah
> >
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jesus Monroy, Jr.)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Is Unix a single user operating system?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:21:42 GMT
On 7 May 1999 03:58:29 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sam Holden)
wrote:
> Jesus Monroy, Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On Thu, 06 May 1999 16:18:37 BST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lack Mr G M)
>>wrote:
>>
>>.....[SNIPed own long-winded yack].........
>>
>> Anyhow, let's say for a moment you assign a task to
>> a junior (or senior) admin person to do task on some
>> machines.
>>
>> Now here's the catch. One day you find that all the
>> machines have been upgrade to a new buggy version of
>> the OS which you never authorized. What do you do?
>
>The sub-administrator gets sacked and possibly has legal action
>launched against them. However, it would never occur in practice
>because you would use sudo in that situation and thus restrict
>what the person can do. Anyway the backup tapes would fix the
>problem.
>
Then you're beginning to see the issue. A protracted
mind bending delay that occurs because of the
one-mindedness of this "sub-administrator".
Even 'sudo' you can admit is a hack. It is not a
real solution, because still have to plan for
all possible situations; which is impossible.
The truth is I like the UNIX system better. It also
for more and better trust among individuals. However,
the corporate world is filled with plans of 'overthrow'.
So perceptions of "what would occur in practice",
never happens as expected.
--
If you have to read the docs, it's broken.
I hate making mistakes.
You can check my spelling at: http://work.ucsd.edu:5141/cgi-bin/http_webster
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott Lanning)
Subject: Re: How to filter the list of the files by permissions?
Date: 7 May 1999 07:44:26 GMT
Bill Unruh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Sergei Gnezdov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: >If I want to see the list of the files which has some permissions, how
: >can I do this?
:
: man find
: find / -perm +200 -ls
: will give what you asked for. (write permission for owner and other
: stuff irrelevant).
Neat.
: (The above are for the Linux find. Solaris, Sun, etc may have a
: slighlty different form)
Because I wasn't aware of the above, I rolled my own, which probably
will work on any Unix with Perl (note that you should NOT call
this script "lsmod"):
-=-=-=- cut here -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
#!/usr/bin/perl
# description: lists files with optional specified permissions
# defaults to current directory, read/write/execute
# usage: listmod <mod> <dir>
# where <mod> is like octal version of chmod
# author: Scott Lanning
################################################################
use File::stat;
($perms = @ARGV ? shift : 777) && ($dirname = @ARGV ? shift : ".");
$perms = oct($perms);
opendir(DIR, $dirname) || die "can't open $dirname: $!";
while (defined($file = readdir(DIR))) {
next if $file =~ /^\.\.?$/;
$stat = stat("$dirname/$file");
printf("%s\n",$file) if ($perms == (0777 & $stat->mode));
}
closedir(DIR);
--
Scott Lanning -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://physics.bu.edu/~slanning/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jesus Monroy, Jr.)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Is Unix a single user operating system?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:25:59 GMT
On 7 May 1999 03:40:20 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sam Holden)
wrote:
> Jesus Monroy, Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On Thu, 06 May 1999 22:18:03 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>>Jesus Monroy, Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> >snip<
>>>: In short, as I see it two (2) release will be needed to
>>>: accomplish any type of 'marketing' success. Both releases
>>>: must have the ablity to walk up to a machine and just
>>>: use it NO password with NO su issues whatsoever.
>>>
>>> fubar::0:0:Joe Fool:/root:/usr/local/bin/zsh
>>>
>> I guess I'm not making my point clear enough.
>> There would be NO login need, period. The shell is
>> just there.
>
>So automatically run a shell on a console as some guest user.
>When the shell exits it gets started up again.... A small
>modification to a configuration file...
>
The shell does not exit. If you must, think about
MS-DOS done correctly with the UNIX flavor.
>However, I have to login to my windows box anyway, with a
>username and password (it remembers the username though)...
>
That can be circumvented. And is documented.
--
If you have to read the docs, it's broken.
I hate making mistakes.
You can check my spelling at: http://work.ucsd.edu:5141/cgi-bin/http_webster
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism (returning to %252522GNU Communism%252522)
Date: 7 May 1999 08:22:10 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco Anglesio) writes:
> On Thu, 06 May 1999 14:46:17 -0700, jik- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Oh bull, that may be the case in technical documents and other such, but
>>books for the most part are written because the author wishes to express
>>something. Which, without literacy is something he would be unable to
>>do to such a wide audience.
>
> I think that you misspelled "printing". And "business". You appreciate
> books, not literacy; in its absence, another art form would do just as
> well. In fact, you more or less concede it when you talk about humans
> finding ways to express themselves since the dawn of time.
Writing originated *not* as an art form, but as a means to convey
administrative information from one stores clerk to another. Most of
the Mesopotamian clay tablets are store inventories.
Even in our society, the biggest advantage of reading and writing is
to be able to fulfill administrative requirements without having to
trust another person. The profession of notary public (currently an
almost useless function) originated in the need to have written documents
established on behalf of, and read to, illiterate people. Witnessing of
documents was required because the signatories were only able to make
a cross.
The reasons why it's important for companies to have as high a litteracy rate
as possible is that:
a) illiterate people need tuition to acquire new job skills
b) even though illiterate people have historically earned minimal
wages, there are few jobs they can do, and they aren't
customers for most companies (no needs, no cash, and no credit).
> Writing, believe it or not, is not the only form of communicative or
> representative art. In fact, its preeminence (when compared to music) is a
> relatively recent thing, and is almost exclusively due to technology in
> printing and low-cost production methods. Perhaps it's overly broad to
> count human history beyond the 19th century, but I have no problem with
> being overly broad.
More money is made through music than through books (counting both trashy
novels and rap). More people are affected by music than by books. Old music
is still relevant, old books are (mostly) not, and are certainly less
enjoyable than old music.
But it remains that the real importance of litteracy is the ability
to participate on equal footing in the administration of society, and
that this is *the* single biggest factor of empowerment vis-a-vis the
so-called "ruling classes".
--
Stefaan
--
PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/)
___________________________________________________________________
Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add,
but when there is no longer anything to take away. -- Saint-Exup�ry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 10:31:31 +0100
From: "Greg Plumbly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Subject: mSQL installation - directory routines
hi
i am trying to install mSQL-2.0.9 on a Linux-2.0.36-i686 system.
during the ./setup process i receive the following prompt
"checking your directory stuff.
Hang on! Could't work out your directory routines
Check out conf/dirent.c and see what you need defined
to make it compile. When you've worked that out,
rerun this script and enter the details at the prompt
offered below (e.g. -DHAVE_DIRENT -DHAVE_DIRENT_H) :-
Defines for directory stuff?"
I had a look at conf/dirent.c and am none the wiser.
Any help greatly appreciated
Greg
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Ed Avis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 11:12:08 +0100
Jim Richardson wrote:
>>If ESR shoots someone, that will be me, cos I'm an anarcho-communist,
>>and a radical mystician on top of all.
>
>why would he shoot you? would you be physically attacking him?
>From <http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/personal.html>:
>I am an armed man, prepared to use deadly force to defend my life and my freedom.
So he might shoot you if you were trying to take away his 'freedom'.
Given that different people have very different ideas on how to define
'freedom' (see the arguments on this group only a few days ago for
just one example), that's probably going to lead to a lot of needless
shootings.
--
Ed Avis
Advertise here! [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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