Linux-Misc Digest #93, Volume #24 Sun, 9 Apr 00 21:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: modules and map file in debian (Paul Kimoto)
Re: kernel installation on a RedHat system (asage)
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation (David Steuber)
Strange output from repquota (Peter Buijsman)
Re: pcmcia-cs-3.1.13 on kernel 2.3.99-pre3 (Paul Kimoto)
Re: Windows 2000 has 63,000 bugs - Win2k.html [0/1] - Win2k.html [0/1] ("Erik
Funkenbusch")
Greetings, ("Christopher C. Stump")
Re: network configuration problem (ground zero)
vfat and FAT32; problems/misconceptions (Dances With Crows)
Re: How did the hacker get root access to my system? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Recommended backup routines (Jonathan M Hill)
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation (Dances With Crows)
Kernel compile bzImage error 2 (mh)
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation (brian moore)
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation ("Erik Funkenbusch")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Kimoto)
Subject: Re: modules and map file in debian
Date: 9 Apr 2000 19:56:14 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <2Z7I4.488$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick Pasotto wrote:
> [I am running debian 2.1 with several packages upgraded to potato. My
> newsserver evidently no longer has any debian groups.]
These were probably copies of the Debian mailing lists. You may read their
archives or subscribe via http://www.debian.org/ .
> I have compiled a new 2.2 kernel with modules. When I run depmod -a the
> modules.dep file in the 2.2.1 directory has pointers to 2.0.34 modules.
I don't know about this particular problem, but have you upgraded to the
potato modutils (2.3.9-3.1)? If you study the man pages, you can probably
figure out a debugging strategy.
> When I boot using the new kernel there is a line in the messages file
> 'Cannot find map file' and the boot process displays lots of errors
> about module/kernel mismatches. I copied the new System.map file to
> /boot/map. /etc/lilo.conf has a header line pointing there.
The LILO "map" file is completely different from System.map. The
"System.map" error messages are probably issued by klogd(8). You can read
the man page to see where it looks for the System.map file.
> Everything
> seems to work fine anyway.
Finding the right System.map file matters only if you want klogd(8) to
decode "Oops" messages automagically (for example, so you can send them to
the kernel maintainers).
--
Paul Kimoto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: asage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: kernel installation on a RedHat system
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 19:53:00 -0400
I was able to successfully install the 2.2.14 kernel, hoping to apply a
backport patch for the USB mouse (couldn't get the patch to woik). The
Mandrake 7.0 distro uses this 2.2.14 kernel and I'm wondering, maybe naively,
if there might be just one or a handful of packages from the Mandrake distro
that could be installed and therefore solve the USB mouse problem I'm having.
Thanks, Allison
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Try Linux Mandrake. It should support USB mouse right without additional
> modules.
>
> asage wrote:
> >
> > I've been trying to install the Linux 2.3.99-pre3 so that I can use a
> > USB wheel mouse. The installation seemed okay. Make menuconfig went
> > beautifully. Make dep presented no problems. Make bzImage, likewise no
> > problems. Make modules, make modules_install, both great. The kernel
> > is /vmlinuz, lilo is in /sbin and /etc/lilo.conf agrees with that. I
> > copied the bzImage into /vmlinuz. I reran lilo.
> >
> > It wouldn't boot. The message is :
> >
> > ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq + 3) is a 16550a
> > request_module[block-major-3]: Root fs not mounted
> > VFS: Cannot open root device "342" or 03:42
> > Please append a correct "root=" boot option
> > Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 03:42
> >
> > Additionally items such as initrd still reference the old 2.12-20 kernel
> > which was installed by RedHat 6.1
> >
> > Is this problem to do with it being on a RedHat 6.1 version of Linux? Or
> > should I be looking at something else?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Allison
> >
>
> --
> Posted via CNET Help.com
> http://www.help.com/
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
From: David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:00:03 GMT
<btolder> writes:
' Where do you see the real innovation happening in this business? What
' companies? What specific technologies?
Take off your blinders:
C: AT&T
C++: ibid
Unix: ibid
TCP/IP: ?
Sockets: University Of Southern California, Berkley.
Ethernet: Xerox PARC
GUI: Staford research institute, then Xerox PARC
Java: Sun
WWW: Tim Berners-Lee/CERN
Browsers: Spyglass/Mozaic
Audio/video streaming: Progressive Networks / Real Networks
True Type: Apple
PostScript: Adobe
Integrated Development Environment: Borland
Spread Sheet: Dan Bricklen
Word Processor: WordStar?
TeX: Donald E Knuth
Computer Science: ibid
etc,etc,etc
I can't think of a single innovation to come out of Microsoft. Not
one. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to Microsoft's most important
innovation?
--
David Steuber | Hi! My name is David Steuber, and I am
NRA Member | a hoploholic.
http://www.packetphone.org/
"If value corrupts then absolute value corrupts absolutely"
------------------------------
From: Peter Buijsman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Strange output from repquota
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 02:00:09 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello,
Here's a partial dump of 'repquota', a program to get an overview of
the quota status of the system.
However, I seem to have strange entries into this output. Could
anybody explain who does numbered users are at the bottom? One of them
even has exceeded the quota...
Anybody?
# repquota -a
Block limits File limits
User used soft hard grace used soft hard grace
<snip>
peter -- 54 0 0 19 0 0
arthur -- 7 1800 2048 6 0 0
marc -- 5 1800 2048 5 0 0
1000 -- 100 1024 1500 14 0 0
1004 -- 64 1024 1500 15 0 0
3168 -- 978 1024 1500 78 0 0
17275 +- 5802 1024 1500 none 543 0 0
--
Peter
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Kimoto)
Subject: Re: pcmcia-cs-3.1.13 on kernel 2.3.99-pre3
Date: 9 Apr 2000 20:00:54 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Sean Harding wrote:
> pcmcia-cs-3.1.13 doesn't seem to compile with kernel 2.3.99-pre3:
You can probably get better advice by posting to comp.os.linux.portable
or the PCMCIA message boards (via http://pcmcia.sourceforge.org/).
> make[1]: *** [3c575_cb.o] Error 1
(This is a kernel module, not one of the user-space utilities.)
> Has anyone had success compiling this combination?
Is this supposed to work? I don't know whether it's supported. People
seem to be using the PCMCIA kernel sources now included directly in the
Linus Torvalds tree (in drivers/net/pcmcia, drivers/char/pcmcia,
drivers/scsi/pcmcia, and drivers/pcmcia).
--
Paul Kimoto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.redhat
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 has 63,000 bugs - Win2k.html [0/1] - Win2k.html [0/1]
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 19:11:03 -0500
Scott E. Regener <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:955182579.270985009@localhost...
> Reason #1 to reboot Windows: Installing new software. It is extremely
rare
> that a new program won't insist on being rebooted in order to work.
NT seldom requires a reboot though for this. The software may tell you to,
but I've only found a few cases where it was required.
> Reason #2: A change in configuration, such as changing the TCP/IP address
of a
> network interface, etc.
You've never had to do this with NT, despite that it told you to reboot.
Windows 2000 doesn't even tell you to.
> Reason #3: A program has crashed and will not operate properly until its
> residual parts are flushed from memory. Many "application faults" follow
this
> path, including many that appear to work properly for some length of time
> before exhibiting poor behavior. Thus, while a particular application
*may*
> work properly after being restarted without a reboot, Windows users have
been
> trained to *always* reboot, just in case.
What they are trained to do, and what is required are two different things.
Most Linux users would probably reboot their machine if X crashed or locked
up rather than trying to telnet into it from another machine to kill the
processes.
> Reason #4: Decreased performance. Over time, with heavy use, Windows
systems
> tend to slow down dramatically.
Not if you maintain it properly. These are things you would generally do in
Unix as well. An example would be trimming or deleting log files (the same
as optimizing the registry). Granted that this is often automated by cron
tasks, but there's no reason it can't be automated with windows as well.
One step that you'll want to do with Windows is defragment, which isn't
usually necessary for Linux (unless you run full drives and add and delete
stuff a lot).
Proper maintenance can keep a Win9x machine running as fast as the first day
you installed it.
> Reason #5: Hung programs, especially ones considered critical to the GUI.
> These may even prevent the machine from shutting down properly, and may
not
> respond to "End Task" dialogs, if such things even appear.
This seldom happens under NT. If one hangs, you can kill it from a command
prompt. I've never had it happen with Windows 2000.
> I'll admit that some of the above *may* also require reboots in Linux,
though
> the instances are much more rare. However, it is perfectly reasonable for
an
> active Windows user with one or two incompatible programs (i.e. DLL hell)
to
> see frequent application crashes that require or recommend a reboot before
> continuing.
Something which no longer happens with Windows 2000.
------------------------------
From: "Christopher C. Stump" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Greetings,
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 01:26:06 +0200
I am trying to get my printer to work on my Red Hat 6.1 machine.
I
try to use the printtool, and everything seems to work fine (my
parrallel port IS detected, and the input filter has my printer
type...a HP 560c). When I try to test the printer with the test
options
in printtool, the 'print ASCII directly to port' option works fine.
However, when I try to use the 'print ASCII test page' option, I get
an
error which reads:
error printing test page to queue taltos (lp0) Error reason: lpr:
Connect: Connection refused
jobs queued but, cannot start daemon.
Obviously, nothing works. I assume that my printer (drivers and all)
will work fine, but something is wrong with the daemon. Could someone
please help me out with this? I've scoured deja.com, HOWTO's , and my
Red Hat online manual (along with all my linux books) but I can't find
anything addressing this problem. Any help is greatly Printer install
problem
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 18:21:06 -0500
Organization: EnterAct Corp.
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24-148-4-22.na.21stcentury.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: news.enteract.com 955322604 74744 24.148.4.22 (9 Apr 2000 23:23:24 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Apr 2000 23:23:24 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i686)
X-Accept-Language: en
Xref: dortmund.de.uu.net comp.os.linux.misc:207100
Greetings,
I am trying to get my printer to work on my Red Hat 6.1 machine. I
try to use the printtool, and everything seems to work fine (my
parrallel port IS detected, and the input filter has my printer
type...a HP 560c). When I try to test the printer with the test options
in printtool, the 'print ASCII directly to port' option works fine.
However, when I try to use the 'print ASCII test page' option, I get an
error which reads:
error printing test page to queue taltos (lp0) Error reason: lpr:
Connect: Connection refused
jobs queued but, cannot start daemon.
Obviously, nothing works. I assume that my printer (drivers and all)
will work fine, but something is wrong with the daemon. Could someone
please help me out with this? I've scoured deja.com, HOWTO's , and my
Red Hat online manual (along with all my linux books) but I can't find
anything addressing this problem. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance to all those who respond to this post =)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 19:13:06 -0500
From: ground zero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: network configuration problem
Run "ifconfig" to see if your network interface "eth0" is listed. If
only lo is listed, you need to "ifconfig eth0 xx.xx.xx.ip netmask
255.255.255.0 up" to enable the network interface "eth0". Of course you
replace the xx.xx.xx.ip with your system IP number. You might also have
to run "route" to see what network routes are set up. Add a default
route "route add default gw xx.xx.xx.ip eth0". Then try the ping again.
Jingang Yi wrote:
> Hi, there,
>
> I have one network configuration problem maybe someone could
> help me out:
>
> I just installed RedHat 6.0 on my system which has Ethenet card
> on the machine. I have already setup the network configuration stuffs
> such as IP address etc by using linuxconf and/or control-panel. It
> seems that the system can detect the hardware and it activates the
> driver for the Ethenet card. I started network related daemons. But
> network does not work. I used "ping" to check the network and it
> stalked and gave me no response. I donot know what is wrong with
> this.
>
> Could you anyone help me and give me some hints to debug it? Thanks.
>
> Jingang
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: vfat and FAT32; problems/misconceptions
Date: 09 Apr 2000 20:16:18 EDT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:40:22 +1000, Timo Nieminen
<<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the ether:
>vfat is not FAT32. vfat is FAT16 with long file names. (Unless fat32 support
>has been added to vfat module recently, but it wasn't there when your kernel
>was born)
Funny, I have a Win98 FAT32 partition sitting around, and it mounts just
fine with fstype vfat. (kernels 2.2.5...2.2.14, and 2.3.99-pre3) No
errors reading/writing at all. FAT32 was integrated into vfat over a year
ago by my estimation; check the kernel changelog for details(!)
I think it was added a bit later than 2.0.31, though. Time to upgrade to
2.0.37, perhaps, before 2.4.0 comes out? :-)
--
Matt G / Dances With Crows \###| Programmers are playwrights
There is no Darkness in Eternity \##| Computers are lousy actors
But only Light too dim for us to see \#| Lusers are vicious drama critics
(Unless, of course, you're working with NT)\| BOFHen burn down theatres.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.2600,alt.linux,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: How did the hacker get root access to my system?
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:36:05 GMT
> First off, there's no such thing as Linux 6.1. Linux (that is, the
Linux kernel)
I'm sorry. I mean to say RedHat 6.1.
> I don't see anything unusual about either of these entries, although
> depending upon how your system is configured, it might be odd that
you're
> getting connection attempts for sending you e-mail.
I have a static IP address (and domain name registration) on a DSL
connection.
> Check your distribution's web page. It should have a list of
> security-related updates and problems. If you see one for Sendmail,
then
> that's possible. If not, it's still possible, but less likely.
I've also recently heard about a hole in bind. I was running named, and
bind was installed...
> I suggest you reinstall everything from scratch.
This seems to be the most logical approach, from everything I have read
here in response to my original posting.
This little shit installed an IRC bot in a strange directory:
/var/tmp/.../
I've never seend a directory named "..." before, and interestingly it
can not be listed using ls -al. Interesting little "feature." :-\
I've nuked every service on this machine I can, but there's no way to
know if he stole my ssh keys. Perhaps I will just kill ssh entirely,
even though that really means I have to use telnet (I guess I can
secure that, though, if I limit it to allow connections from a specific
IP address?).
Also, in /proc, I have a directory that looks something like this:
[root@server /proc]# ls -al
total 1
dr-xr-xr-x 62 root root 0 Mar 14 21:09 .
drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 1024 Apr 8 19:49 ..
dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 1
dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 11862
dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 11863
dr-xr-xr-x 3 nobody nobody 0 Apr 10 00:30 12239
dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 124
dr-xr-xr-x 3 nobody nobody 0 Apr 10 00:30 21567
dr-xr-xr-x 3 nobody nobody 0 Apr 10 00:30 21570
dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 21579
dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 25431
<snip>
-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 dma
-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 fb
-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 filesystems
dr-xr-xr-x 2 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 fs
dr-xr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 ide
-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 interrupts
-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Apr 10 00:30 ioports
-r-------- 1 root root 268439552 Apr 10 00:30 kcore
<snip>
I'm confused by the fact that all these files are zero byte in length,
yet I can 'cat' them. Also, what's that kcore file at 268MB? The root
partition is only 152MB in size....how can I possibly have a 268MB file
called 'kcore' on /proc if /proc is on the root partition?
Why are all the files dated *tomorrow* ????
Thanks, Rod.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jonathan M Hill)
Subject: Re: Recommended backup routines
Date: 10 Apr 2000 00:49:24 GMT
Hello;
The book "Unix Backup & Recovery" by W. Curtis Preston, published by
O'Reilly has helpful to me. But with such a system, Preston's book should
be more helpful for you. Preston is a well seasoned vetran at backing up
networks of various Unix machines. For a peek at the book, take a look
at the http://www.backupcentral.com/ website. There is section devoted
to AMANDA. I don't work for O'Reilly, I'm just impressed by the book.
Jonathan Hill
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
: In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Kerry Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: >
: >I'm looking for a good backup routine. I have an entire server
: >dedicated to doing backups on our local backbone. It has an Athlon 600
: >MHz processor with 128 MB of RAM. It has two NIC cards and has the very
: >latest Red Hat 6.2 OS installed. For doing the backups I have a HP
: >multi-tape storage device that can hold 6 8GB tapes.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: 09 Apr 2000 20:52:21 EDT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 9 Apr 2000 18:37:08 +0100, Robert Moir
<<nd3I4.14041$06.64075@wards>> shouted forth into the ether:
>"fungus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Yep. The TCO of Microsoft operating systems has always been
>> one of the highest (all those reboots and reinstalls...)
>
>Really? I keep hearing this. I had win 98 on my machine for 18 months and
>never had to reinstall it. I do admit the reboots were annoying though, in
>98 and NT, and I am glad that Win2k has solved these problems.
>But "all those reinstalls" - really? What could you of been doing wrong to
>need to do that.
You've never worked in a big NT installation, have you? My current job
involves working with 3 or 4 other people keeping approx. 130 NT
workstations running and doing (ack) tech support for students/professors/
random people who call our phone number. All the machines are reloaded
from scratch every month, sometimes more often to keep up with the latest
crap^Wsoftware that the profs insist their students use.
Regarding the Lose98 bits, either you were very lucky, you didn't do very
much with it, or you're exceptionally good with 98. (tips cap)
[RANT]
These machines are all locked down fairly well. Most crud disabled,
C:\Temp the only really visible user-writable directory (and it's cleared
upon logout), and still important system files get thrashed. Unexplained
weirdness, like all the clip art vanishing, or "NTOSKRNL.EXE Missing or
corrupt--reinstall this file"[0], results in a complete reload because
it's easier/faster to spend 35 minutes Ghosting an image from the central
server than having someone with a clue figure out what went wrong and fix
it. Especially when there are ~20 Future Pointy-Haired Bosses screaming
that printer #4 is broken and the number of clued people is rapidly
approaching -(Infinity).[-1]
It wouldn't be so bad if we could just tell the bloody thing to reload
itself automatically, but no, we have to walk over to the machine, boot
from floppy, watch it to make sure the Ghost process starts OK, hang signs
threatening instant death to anyone who touches the machine when it's
going through its fragile self-check routine after Ghost finishes[1], then
go back, make sure nothing went wrong, and reboot for the 4th time to set
the BIOS back to booting from the hard disk only. Total waste of time and
effort.
[/RANT]
[-1] I'm getting stupider and so is everyone else there.
[0] This happens to one machine in particular every 4 or 5 days.
[1] If you click on any "OK" buttons during its self-check (which
resembles a normal login session and has tempting OK buttons displayed all
the time), the machine will forget its assigned IP address and be
completely useless. Gah.
--
Matt G / Dances With Crows \###| Programmers are playwrights
There is no Darkness in Eternity \##| Computers are lousy actors
But only Light too dim for us to see \#| Lusers are vicious drama critics
(Unless, of course, you're working with NT)\| BOFHen burn down theatres.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 01:00:20 +0000
From: mh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Kernel compile bzImage error 2
I have made several attempts to compile a new kernel (2.2.14), but
something goes wrong at the point the compressed version of the kernel
is being created.
Make enters the directory /usr/src/linux/arch/i386/boot then generates
the following errors:
make[1]: as86: command not found
make[1]: *** [bbootsect.o] error 127
make[1]: leaving directory /usr/src/linux/arch/i386/boot
make: *** [bzImage] error2
I'm running RH 6.0 and have all necessary libraries, etc. installed, as
far as I can tell. I performed a compile of the 2.2.14 kernel on
another machine that was similarly configured, without any problem (once
I figured out I had to use bzImage instead of zImage). Any ideas?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: 10 Apr 2000 00:58:35 GMT
On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 21:53:39 GMT,
The Fungus Among Us <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thing is, *legally*, companies are supposed to pay for every copy of the
> software they use. It's right there on the license. I have no clue how
> MS handles volume discounts for 25+ user companies, which I expect to be
> somewhat cheaper than actually buying those 25+ copies in the store. How
> much cheaper, I have no clue, but I rather doubt MS would just give them
> away. That makes zero business sense for them, and they're not exactly in
> the charity market, y'know...
Site licenses from Microsoft are not cheaper, at least not at around 100
units. Maybe for a thousand or a million systems....
The 'savings' is that you have less paperwork to deal with.
> As to how many companies buy *one* copy and put it on every workstation in
> the house, well, I'm clueless on that too. They tell me Win98 is the most
> pirated piece of software around. Legally, I suspect some companies are
> doing naughty things. (grin)
Not likely by end users. The vast majority of Windows piracy is done at
the distribution level (ie, boatloads of legit-looking software sold to
OEM's and small retailers). The end user (or the end user's IS staff)
gets a machine with Windows preinstalled: how could they pirate
something they already paid for?
--
Brian Moore | Of course vi is God's editor.
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | If He used Emacs, He'd still be waiting
Usenet Vandal | for it to load on the seventh day.
Netscum, Bane of Elves.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:08:36 -0500
David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> ' Where do you see the real innovation happening in this business? What
> ' companies? What specific technologies?
>
> Take off your blinders:
>
> C: AT&T
Actually, C was invented by Brian Kerningham and Dennis Ritchie. They
weren't working at AT&T when they invented it.
> C++: ibid
Yes.
> Unix: ibid
No, it was invented by the aforementioned people as a scaled down Multics.
> TCP/IP: ?
DOD Arpanet research.
> Sockets: University Of Southern California, Berkley.
Yes.
> Ethernet: Xerox PARC
I thought it was developed by DEC.
> GUI: Staford research institute, then Xerox PARC
There were GUI's even before that. Just not what we see today.
> Java: Sun
Java has fewer innovations than anything else. For instance, the JVM was
really just a take on the SmallTalk VM. The only thing innovative was their
useage of existing technologies, something which Microsoft does all the
time.
> WWW: Tim Berners-Lee/CERN
Though it's really based on Gopher, invented at the University of Minnesota.
> Browsers: Spyglass/Mozaic
NCSA created Mosaic.
> Audio/video streaming: Progressive Networks / Real Networks
No, these existed for a long time before that. Real just figured out a way
to compress the data to go over normal phone lines.
> True Type: Apple
In conjunction with Microsoft.
> PostScript: Adobe
PostScript is just another page layout language.
> Integrated Development Environment: Borland
Mainframes were doing for years before them.
> Spread Sheet: Dan Bricklen
Yes.
> Word Processor: WordStar?
Newspapers were using things similar to word procesors for years before
then.
> TeX: Donald E Knuth
Another page layout language.
> Computer Science: ibid
He's smart, but he's not THAT smart. Computer Science was based on
practices of the time.
> etc,etc,etc
>
> I can't think of a single innovation to come out of Microsoft. Not
> one. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to Microsoft's most important
> innovation?
Mass market operating systems?
Certainly the integrated web browser.
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