Linux-Misc Digest #190, Volume #20 Thu, 13 May 99 17:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (Peter Seebach)
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (Greg Yantz)
Re: HOSTNAME: I don;t get it (Jon Skeet)
using ircII (benjamin)
Re: Programming crashes my system ("Robert J. Sprawls")
Re: USB Support (Timothy Dixon)
cpio problems ("giuseppe pittavini")
Re: 'Find'. what a strange command (Mark Howson)
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (M.A.R. Janssen)
Re: Proper use of /usr/local (Re: The Best Linux distribution?) (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Programming crashes my system (brian moore)
Re: car mp3 player (brian moore)
Re: car mp3 player (brian moore)
Re: groff 1.11 make error (Arne Pierstorff)
Re: what is Red Hat doing? (TomDickHarry)
Re: RedHat price... (TomDickHarry)
Re: Problems printing to HP LJ5 (Jet Direct) (Dietmar Schnabel)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Seebach)
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:42:46 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Marco Anglesio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>By succeeding, you do lots to prevent anyone else from having the exact
>same fair chance.
Not true at all.
By succeeding, you generally create more opportunities for others to succeed.
Meanwhile, you are failing to distinguish between "result" and "opportunity".
Does the fact that only one person wins a sweepstakes mean the others "had no
chance"?
>A capitalist economy, to its credit, may produce lots of
>rich people (and I assume by this you mean "success"), but those rich
>people run off the labour of relatively ill-paid labourers.
This is a vast generalization, as well as a fundemental missing of the
point.
Would you rather be "relatively" ill-paid, or not paid at all?
>That you have talents and opportunity is well and good, but that those
>talents and opportunities lead you to something relatively renumerative?
>Pure luck of the draw. Luck of the draw for me, too, but I'm honest
>enough to call it what it is.
It's not pure luck. I'm sorry, but I've seen too many talented people
not try and fail, and too many talented people try and succeed, to believe
that effort isn't counting for a lot.
-s
--
Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/
Visit my new ISP <URL:http://www.plethora.net/> --- More Net, Less Spam!
------------------------------
From: Greg Yantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism
Date: 13 May 1999 15:52:00 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco Anglesio) writes:
>
> On 13 May 1999 14:53:56 -0400, Greg Yantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >A libertarian rather thinks that it would be a good thing if people
> >had a fair chance; if people had the chance to succeed as well as
> >they might based on their own talents and hard work. Without, of
> >course, doing anything to prevent anyone else from having the exact
> >same fair chance. Think "upward mobility".
>
> By succeeding, you do lots to prevent anyone else from having the exact
> same fair chance. A capitalist economy, to its credit, may produce lots of
> rich people (and I assume by this you mean "success"), but those rich
> people run off the labour of relatively ill-paid labourers. You would not
> be successful, or "upwardly mobile", if it weren't for a substantial
> population of workers who earned substantially less while providing you
> with cheap goods.
This is a really good point. It tends to boil down to whether or not
economics is a zero-sum game. Fortunately, it's not, quite. Free trade,
competition and advancing technology all tend to equate to there being
more and more wealth over time to compete for.
> Of course, the doctrinaire communist view, that government and industry
> owned by the workers as a class would create a paradise, is equally
> detatched from reality. If everyone earned the same amount, no matter how
> much that was, everyone would be equally lower-middle-class rather than
> upper-class. Even the US economy (arguably the most vital of this century)
> doesn't produce that much wealth when spread around evenly.
That and one big problem with communism is that the economic "pie"
doesn't get larger over time. Everyone stays that poor forever. In a
more efficient economy, the pie gets larger over time, and everyone
shares in the benefits. Free economies just outgrow planned ones.
> That you have talents and opportunity is well and good, but that those
> talents and opportunities lead you to something relatively renumerative?
> Pure luck of the draw. Luck of the draw for me, too, but I'm honest
> enough to call it what it is.
There's alot of luck involved. Too much, in my opinion. But to call
it all luck is to say it's pointless to even try, and that is not
acceptable.
-Greg
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon Skeet)
Subject: Re: HOSTNAME: I don;t get it
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:52:18 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> but if I try to type at the prompt:
>
> mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> the mail gets bounced... with a "server domain must exist," or "service
> unavailable."
>
> candle = username
> linux.org = my domain
>
> work w/dynamic ip
>
> Can someone point out what I am doing wrong... I have been trying all
> kinds of combos... switching candle and candle.linux.org in /etc/hosts,
> saying "yes" and "candle.linux.org" in the above section of
> /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit... even putting candle.linux.org in quotes in
> /etc/sysconfig/network.
Well, it sounds like you don't have linux.org set up with an MX record to
point to candle.linux.org. Try mailing [EMAIL PROTECTED] and see
what happens.
> Also when I use the gnome-panel... it complaints about not being able to
> locate candle.linux.org and it stops only when i add :
> 127.0.0.1 localhost candle
> in /etc/hosts
Sounds very odd...
I don't know much about the networking side, but I just thought I'd point
out that mailing username@domain doesn't usually try mailing
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Jon Skeet - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet/
------------------------------
From: benjamin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: using ircII
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 23:36:55 +0200
Hello ,
I am runing ircII-2.8.2-EPIC3 under Linux Kernel 2.2.4
i would like to know two things:
1) How do i change the default server ? (so that i don't need to do
/disconnect and /server eu.undernet.org each time i go to irc)
2) How do i paste the output of cat, or a file contain into irc channel
? so that i can display, for example,
a config file (without the /exec command)
Thank you for helping
Benjamin.
runing Linux Kernel 2.2.4
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Robert J. Sprawls" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux-redhat
Subject: Re: Programming crashes my system
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:00:27 -0500
On 9 May 1999, brian moore wrote:
> This is, of course, highly useful for a programmer: at that point, a
> copy of the state of the program is saved to disk, including the
> contents of all the registers and all your data. A "postmortem" can
> often find the cause of the problem.
Question: Is there a utility to decipher the core dump? It's all binary,
so how does one go about reading it?
Robert J. Sprawls [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tactical Dynamics http://home.att.net/~sprawlsr
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Timothy Dixon)
Crossposted-To: redhat.general
Subject: Re: USB Support
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:43:25 GMT
On Thu, 13 May 1999 19:22:06 +0100, "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Really,
>
>What does minimal mean?
>
>Is it realistically unworkable but a public beta?
>
>Surely it couldn't be that situation since that is one of the fundamental
>criticisms of MS ;-)
>
Well, MS calls them released and charges for them even if they don't
work. Typically "minimal" means that it works but may not support
every feature. In the case of USB particularly, I don't know off
hand.
------------------------------
From: "giuseppe pittavini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: cpio problems
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:41:32 -0700
I have backed up stuff on an Ultrix 4.4 unix machine. I used an old version
of cpio.
The script that I used is:
find . -print | cpio -oBv > /dev/rmt0h
I tried several keys with cpio but i receive the following messages:
error 5 can't read input
if you want to go on, type device/file name when ready
DME_RESUME enered with zero act_pend_cnterrno
I tried this with several tapes that I have backed up previously, but it did
not work.
I tried backing up a sample folder using cpio -o > /dev/rmt0h, and I was
able to recover the folder with no problems.
I am thinking it is a problem with the format that I used to back up the
data.
any help will be appreciated
Thanks in advance
------------------------------
From: Mark Howson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 'Find'. what a strange command
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:35:58 +0100
Brad wrote:
> I was trying to find where netscape is installed on my newly installed
> Linux setup. I figured there must be a 'find' command and I wasn't
> find [path....] [expression]
In this case, expression isn't a search pattern, it's a list of
arguments.
> find / netscape
This will list the contents of /, followed by the contents of the
'netscape' directory...
> Wrong. This, for a reason I hope someone can explain, listed, I think,
> every file on my machine.
find (at least GNU find) assumes that you want to see all files by
default. Because you hadn't given it a pattern, it just listed all the
files it found. What you wanted to do here was:
find / -name 'netscape'
It thought you meant:
find / netscape -name '*'
Do 'info find' and look at the '-name' option. You'll probably find
'info' more helpful than 'man' - man tends to provide a mere listing of
the options, info files sometimes have examples, etc.
> I got around the problem by typing 'find / netscape >> find.txt' and
> then using the wonderful grep command to display all the lines with
> 'netscape' in them. Exactly what 'find' should have done in the first
> place.
Oh, btw - locate can be useful in these situations...
man locate
Mark
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (M.A.R. Janssen)
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:46:35 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:08:30 +0200, Reyn EagleStorm
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Jim McCusker wrote:
>>
>> While I'd love to see capitalism go away (I'm a gift-economy person
>> myself), the 'pure' communism that you speak of cannot come into being
>> without it already existing. That is, it can exist, but only if it has
>> always existed. Any attempt to create communism will degenerate into
>> what the Soviet Union et al. had. Communism requires *everyone* in the
>> system to go along with it, so there goes the ability for dissent, free
>> speech, free press, etc. Also, what do you do with the folks who don't
>> go along with it? Really, the only option is to kill them, or imprison
>> them. This is exactly what the bolsheviks (sp?) did. You have no choice,
>> it will degenerate.
Well, Richard Stallman's idea(l)s may seem communist, but at least he
doesn't try to impose them on other people by force like the the way
the Soviets imposed Communism on the Russian people. Instead he
applies those idea(l)s upon himself and gives away his own work with
open source. And he encourages (not forces) other people to do the
same and gives them a legal framework to do so without running the
risk of getting ripped off by people who would steal their works and
proprietarize them.
The GNU philosophy is entirely consistent with a democratic society,
in which the views of minorities are treated equally to the views of
the majority. Even though Western democracies are predominantly
capitalist societies does not mean that you MUST be a capitalist. If I
decide to give half my income to charity then that's my decision and
nobody else. There is no law that states you must make a profit and
there is no single way of Life that is the only Righteous and Just Way
of Life, although some people think otherwise.
Martijn
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Proper use of /usr/local (Re: The Best Linux distribution?)
Date: 13 May 1999 11:45:04 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>: I really don't want to track every program that other people are
>: maintaining, I want to upgrade everything to the newest in one shot
>: and be done for a while.
>
> cd /usr/ports
> make install
>
> Can it be any more trivial?
Yes. It can and should be done in the same step as the base install.
Pick everything you want and go away until the machine is ready
to reboot and run.
> However, there are 2308 ports. Do you really want to install that
> much software simply because you "can" upgrade *everything*?
What I really want is for someone else to assemble a distribution
down to within a dozen or so programs of what I actually want
installed. Since that isn't likely I'll settle for a checklist
of a few hundred groupings and I don't mind erring on the 'too much'
side as the 'something isn't here when I need it' side.
>: That means I'll blow away the package database anyway
>
> Why?
It's faster and easier - and doesn't require installing the
update from the same distribution.
>: and then put my own programs back if necessary.
>
> That does not follow.
>
> You just said that *you* wanted to quote, "upgrade everything to the
> newest". Why would you then go back and install your own older
> version?
I said *my* programs. Ones that don't exist and wouldn't make sense
anywhere else. But this also includes things that need local
tweaking and ones that still aren't up to the current rev in the
distribution yet.
> If you're talking about random hack programs you like keeping
> around, either register them (it's *really* trivial) or create a
> /usr/local/random_hack hierarchy (if not $HOME/bin).
Yes, this is /usr/local/bin.
> It is really so hard to keep your renegade software away from
> registered software? No, it's not. It's below trivial. If you're
> running some hacked up home box, sure do whatever you like. If
> you're in any larger setting to ignore the standard admin systems
> that *every* Unix has isn't lazy, it's stupid.
Ummm, yes, doesn't *every* unix distribution except *bsd stay out
of /usr/local?
>:> No one should "expect" to have to tweak *any* non-system components
>:> after a system upgrade, period.
>:
>: OK, it just hasn't worked that way for me.
>
> Case subject?
All the local stuff, of course. There is an ip->ipx gateway that
talks to an even stranger program on the ipx side, an ip->serial
port program that works sort of like a print spooler, and a few
other odds & ends. Then there is amanda with it's patched
gnutar and smbclient, a custom apache, sometimes a perl.
>: I have no problems with that under Linux. There were some versions
>: where the compatibility libs were broken. I don't use those versions.
>
> So now we're expected to hope and pray that the distribution we
> picked didn't fall pray to the failings of all the rest? No thanks.
No, you are expected to either test the version you intend to use,
or pay attention to the other people who have already tried it.
Linux users complain loudly about every little problem so it is
easy to know what to avoid. *bsd users never admit that there are
any bugs, but if you really press them they sometimes let out that
such-and-such was fixed in something-or-other-CURRENT on some
particular date. And then the versioning scheme begins to make
sense. Everybody must be running -CURRENT to get these fixes (or
even know about them) and that means they shouldn't be complaining
about bugs because the -CURRENT version is supposed to have bugs.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux-redhat
Subject: Re: Programming crashes my system
Date: 13 May 1999 20:18:25 GMT
On Thu, 13 May 1999 14:00:27 -0500,
Robert J. Sprawls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9 May 1999, brian moore wrote:
>
> > This is, of course, highly useful for a programmer: at that point, a
> > copy of the state of the program is saved to disk, including the
> > contents of all the registers and all your data. A "postmortem" can
> > often find the cause of the problem.
>
> Question: Is there a utility to decipher the core dump? It's all binary,
> so how does one go about reading it?
gdb is the tool.
'gdb executable core' and you'll be able to do 'bt' (for backtrace),
and you'll be able to print out variables, etc. There are also GUI
wrappers for GDB, like DDD or xgdb, that can be useful if you find the
command line daunting. (The can also offer additional functionality,
like the ability to draw a representation of your data structures
graphically, which can be useful for following linked lists and such.)
--
Brian Moore | "The Zen nature of a spammer resembles
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | a cockroach, except that the cockroach
Usenet Vandal | is higher up on the evolutionary chain."
Netscum, Bane of Elves. Peter Olson, Delphi Postmaster
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Subject: Re: car mp3 player
Date: 13 May 1999 20:25:21 GMT
On 13 May 1999 19:06:49 GMT,
David L. Bilbey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> +-----On 13 May 1999 16:04:06 GMT, David L. Bilbey spoke unto us:----------
> | I'm looking into constructing an mp3 player for my car. I've searched the
> | web, but come up with lots of useless (for me) info. Basically, what I'm
> | looking for is a linux mp3 program that I can use for the playing. It
> | should support keypad control, and ideally, output to an LCD screen. Does
> | anyone have any pointers. If not, where can I get info on writing one
> | myself? Thanks.
> --
>
> I've also got another problem. Shutting the car off/shutting down the
> computer. If I mount the file-system read-only, is it okay to just shut it
> off? If not, how would I go about addressing this problem?
If you mount it readonly, yes... but that will cost some flexibility.
You may want to look into using APM type stuff to handle things more
gracefully: running the player off an unswitched circuit in the car and
having it go into sleep mode when you kill the ignition or 'accessory'
power.
--
Brian Moore | "The Zen nature of a spammer resembles
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | a cockroach, except that the cockroach
Usenet Vandal | is higher up on the evolutionary chain."
Netscum, Bane of Elves. Peter Olson, Delphi Postmaster
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Subject: Re: car mp3 player
Date: 13 May 1999 17:26:14 GMT
On 13 May 1999 16:04:06 GMT,
David L. Bilbey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm looking into constructing an mp3 player for my car. I've searched the
> web, but come up with lots of useless (for me) info. Basically, what I'm
> looking for is a linux mp3 program that I can use for the playing. It
> should support keypad control, and ideally, output to an LCD screen. Does
> anyone have any pointers. If not, where can I get info on writing one
> myself? Thanks.
Actually, I'm pondering something similar (but in the case of a
circa-1986 CD player that I need to retire :)).
You won't find a ready-to-go kit for this: there isn't a standard for
keypads or lcd displays, so you'll have to piece things together.
I'm presently in search of a decent P120 or so board with audio and
ethernet (what good is a home CD player if you can't telnet to it?).
I've sent off mail to a few companies requesting prices (hit altavista
and look for things like "+embedded +pentium +audio") but haven't got a
response yet.
The goal is to build a dinky computer into the box, replacing the CD
drive with a CD-ROM drive and an internal hard drive. (I burn my own
CD's of MP3's so that I can take them to work conveniently and it'd be
nice to be able to play regular CDs as well.)
Have you gotten a solution to the hardware problems like a decent cpu
board (Pentium class or StrongArm)?
--
Brian Moore | "The Zen nature of a spammer resembles
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | a cockroach, except that the cockroach
Usenet Vandal | is higher up on the evolutionary chain."
Netscum, Bane of Elves. Peter Olson, Delphi Postmaster
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arne Pierstorff)
Subject: Re: groff 1.11 make error
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:20:28 +0200
William Adderholdt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm a bit of a newbie at makefiles, but I think I may see what's wrong.
> The Makefile.sub in the tmac directory looks like this:
> stamp-wrap:
> if test -n "$(tmac_wrap)"; then \
> for m in $(tmac_wrap); do \
> rm -f $$m-wrap; \
> echo .cp 1 >$$m-wrap; \
> echo .so $(sys_tmac_prefix)$$m >>$$m-wrap; \
> done; \
> fi
> touch $@
> It's substituting $(tmac_wrap) in these lines, the value of which it gets
> from the Makefile in the top directory. The value of tmac_wrap is null in
> your build, which is causing syntax errors in the shell script. ("for m
> in" requires an argument, which is why its complaining about the
> "unexpected token `;'")
> Look in the top Makefile for the definition of tmac_wrap. (It's on line
> 100 in my build.) If the field is empty, this would be causing your
> errors.
> I'm not sure what is supposed to go in this field, however. Sorry I can't
> give any advice there.
> Hope this helps.
> William Adderholdt
Thanks for identifying the problem -- no obvious solution there, it
seems. A missing path, perhaps? Trying to compile an older version
produced the same error. Argh... ;-)
--
Arne Pierstorff
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | "IF YOU CAN'T WIN BY REASON,
http://home.t-online.de/home/arne.p/ | GO FOR VOLUME."
------------------------------
From: TomDickHarry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: what is Red Hat doing?
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:55:54 -0500
wondered the same thing myself :c)
------------------------------
From: TomDickHarry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RedHat price...
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:54:48 -0500
www.cheapbytes.com
$1.99US for just RedHat.
$6.99US for RH+archive set=WOOHOO!!!!
------------------------------
From: Dietmar Schnabel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Problems printing to HP LJ5 (Jet Direct)
Date: 13 May 1999 20:30:59 GMT
Did you try to restart the printer queue before. (Use 'lpc' and then
restart all or restart the printer only?)
Dietmar
sheiks wrote:
>
> Well, Just like last time, the problem just fixed itself after a day.
This
> morning when I restarted lpd, the print jobs started coming out one by
one.
> Made no changes whatsoever.
>
> Still would like to know if anyone else has seen this problem before.
>
> Shahid
>
> In article <76evgt$neq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Shahid Sheikh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I just spent several hours trying to resolve a printing problem without
any
> > avail. Just upgraded to Red Hat 5.2 (actually had to do a fresh
install) and
> > now I can't get the printer to work.
> >
> > I'm trying to print to a HP 5M that has a Jet Direct card in it (to
which I
> > was printing fine before I re-installed my system.) I can configure the
> > printer thru the control panel just fine but when I try to print
something
> > to it, the print queue simply hangs. During this period, the printer
stops
> > responding completely except to pings. I cant telnet to it and it wont
> > respond to lpq queries. Seems like it takes about 5 minutes to time out
and
> > then daemon on the linux machine stops and the printer starts working
again
> > (i.e. you can print to from other systems and it responds to lpq and
> > telnet.)
> >
> > I had the exact same problem when I first installed Red Hat 5.1 but the
> > problem went away mysteriously in a couple of days.
> >
> > Anyone know what I'm doing wrong here?
> >
> > Also, I noticed that with Red Hat 5.2 installation, only root has
read/write
> > access to /dev/null which I thought was odd. Had to change it to get
Acrobat
> > working properly.
> >
> > Shahid
> >
> > P.S. please include my e-mail address in the response. Thanx.
> >
> >
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your
Own
================== Posted via SearchLinux ==================
http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
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