Linux-Misc Digest #72, Volume #21 Sun, 18 Jul 99 15:13:10 EDT
Contents:
Re: Did you switch from Windows to Linux? (Monte Phillips)
Re: any way to access MBR directly? (Sitaram Chamarty)
Aa modem hung up! (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCRjtFRBsoSiAbJEI+ITY1GyhK?=)
Re: Shortcomings of Linux? (Chris Lee)
Re: Major RedHat 6.0 Disappointment (Slurp)
URGENT HELP! My linux box has gone wild! (Frank Conte)
Raid (mkraid) problems, and patching problems ("Johan Ljunggren")
Re: Can someone recommend.... (Marc Mutz)
Re: Can "top" memory use stats be trusted? (Graham Higgins)
Re: extract files form image (Marc Mutz)
Re: Benchmarks for Linux (Marc Mutz)
Re: Shortcomings of Linux? (Holger Kruse)
Re: Shortcomings of Linux? ("Keith Blakemore-Noble ")
Re: Wordperfect and Linuxmall Confusion! (Rod Smith)
help accessing drives in linux (CLTCEvans)
Dead daemons? (R. Christopher Harshman)
Unable to Change Monitor's Resolution (Rajesh Rajesh Radhakrishnan)
Re: Iomega ZIP parallel zip drive under red hat linux 6.0 problem solved (Steve
Arnold)
Re: Did you switch from Windows to Linux? (Steve Lamb)
Re: Shortcomings of Linux? (Holger Kruse)
Re: recommend mySQL guide/how-to for absolute clueless ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Monte Phillips)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.caldera,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Did you switch from Windows to Linux?
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:07:35 GMT
On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:15:56 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(William Wueppelmann) wrote:
>One of the main points missed by Windows users when using Linux is that the
>notion of an application in the Unix world is very different that that in
>the Windows world. The reason you won't find a lot of monolithic,
>one-size-fits-all(-poorly) applicatins for Linux is because the Unix world
>got along quite well with its own method of solving problems.
The UNIX world was never a player in desktop publishing, heavy
graphics etc. Consequently it developed NO suitable applications for
that, in fact generally the machines that Unix runs on are totally
unsuited to that.
>Linux installs with an incredibly rich set of tools: awk, grep, sed, tee,
>echo, cat, sort, uniq, spell and so forth. The idea behind these tools is
>that they are simple and flexible enough that they can be used to create
>(with the help of shell features such as pipes, redirection and scripts) an
>application which is suited to your particular needs. The Windows approach
>is to serve you a 100MB application and make you sort through it to isolate
>the features that you need (if they are there at all) from the features
>that you don't need, but are included because someone else might want them.
>In other words, Linux ships with everything you need to do most anything
>you could ever want to do except for one component which you must provide
>yourself: creativity.
That is a highly arrogant attitude, you apparently have little
knowledge of the many applications that computers are being used for.
What an ego! You are going to tell ME what is sufficient? WHAT THE
HELL ARE YOU? A microsoft 'mole'?
LInux/and its flavors are the premiere bar none best server OS for
PC's. It got that way from the cooperation of some of the most
talented programmers working collectively on that one aspect. Now we
need to get some great programmers to start writing applications that
are up to speed with the real world. Its just a matter of time and
talent. But to say that such exists now is absolutely ludicrous and
makes linux a laughing stock when such as you spout such inanities.
Stick toi the facts, which is that linux is the best server.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sitaram Chamarty)
Subject: Re: any way to access MBR directly?
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:55:17 GMT
On Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:54:00 +0200, J�rgen Pfann
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>them anew, you could (at least in theory) restore the old partition
>scheme by writing back the full 512 bytes of a previously backed up
>MBR; I _did_ thus successfully get back access to a SCO (Free OS 5.0.2)
WHy "in theory"? I thought this is how all those "recovery disk"
utilities worked...
------------------------------
From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCRjtFRBsoSiAbJEI+ITY1GyhK?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Aa modem hung up!
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:35:44 +0900
Hi all, this may be a stupid question, but how can I tell if a modem is
gone bad and needs replacement?
I have an internal AT&T Win modem which I had been successfully
using to connect my IBM Aptiva machine to a provider. Now when I use
ppp-d to
dial in, I get connected but a modem hung up!
I tried the command "cu -l /dev/cua0" . But the anser was "Permission
denied!"
What should I do next?
The distribution is SlackWare 3.6.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Lee)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Shortcomings of Linux?
Date: 18 Jul 1999 16:31:41 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
>On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 19:43:46 GMT, "William B. Cattell"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>Again, this isn't about writing code for Linux, this is about bugs
>in Linux's implementation of it's IP stack (and thus it's ability
>to interoperate with other IP stacks). Before you blow off
>someone's argument, and start making comments about his
>motives perhaps you should _READ_ his argument.
Holger doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. If he did he would've
done what the Linux guys did and wrote his own IP stack instead of ripping
off the BSD IP stack. It's just that simple.
------------------------------
From: Slurp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.questions,linux.redhat
Subject: Re: Major RedHat 6.0 Disappointment
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:43:27 -0400
If it only hangs when running X your X isn't setup correctly or X itself
is messed up. There are updated to the X distro that came with redhat
6.0 at ftp://updates.redhat.com
I get core files all over, but GNOME is running OK, it burps once in a
while....
David Eno wrote:
>
> Curly++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > David Eno wrote:
> > >
> > > Here's my system configuration:
> > >
> > > PIII-450. Epox EP-BX3 CPU board. I can't find any reported conflicts
> here.
> > > 128M RAM
> > > Cirrus Logic 5465 AGP Graphics card.
> > > 3COM NIC (3CSM905B-TX-20)
> > > Soundblaster Vibra 16BIT
> > > USR 56K Modem
> > > No SCSI controllers.
> > >
> > > My system hangs when running X.
> >
> > Which desktop? Have any X or desktop settings been changed?
> >
> > I have yet to see a gnome user without a core dump in the
> > home directory. Try KDE if you want as fancy as you can
> > get, or try afterstep you want to use something a little
> > more stable until KDE and/or gnome have a few more kinks
> > worked out.
> >
> > I'm using KDE on 6.0 without major problems. Gnome was
> > a little too hard to keep running.
> >
> > --
> > Oisin "Curly++" Curtin
> >
> > I HAVE MAIL: curlyplusplus@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <sigh> Do the usual cleanup.
> > Coming soon: http://www.crosswinds.net/~curlyplusplus
>
> The system hangs with either desktop. :-(
>
> Dave E.
------------------------------
From: Frank Conte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: URGENT HELP! My linux box has gone wild!
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 17:10:29 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A few minutes ago, I ran a ping command to identify a pc on my little
network. I'm running RedHat 4.2. All of a sudden the command line starts
running off on its own. There's a process gone amuck and I don't know
where I can identify it. Something's typing silly, senseless commands
keep appearing at the prompt. Could it be that I improperly shut down
the machine earlier?
HELP Please!
------------------------------
From: "Johan Ljunggren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: redhat.config
Subject: Raid (mkraid) problems, and patching problems
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 19:46:32 +0200
Hello!
Please help if you can....
When I use the 'mkraid' command, all the disks in the raid are printed out,
and then it says "/dev/md0: invalid argument".
I have looked around for troubleshooting tips, but that only covers this
error during 'raidstart' and one should use the mkraid when it happens...
well... not even that works for me. :-)
I'm using kernal 2.2.10, and the latest raidtools. Have also downloaded the
raidpatch, but can't seem to get it to work. If I patch it (using the
'patch' command might be wrong?) I can't compile the kernal.
Is it the raidpatch what's missing or something else. I have done 'make
config' and enabled linear mode, something else need to be done there also?
Thanks for any help that can get me a step further.
Johan Ljunggren
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:51:31 +0200
From: Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can someone recommend....
Andrew Arbon wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Can someone recommend me a good offline news reading program and a good
> email editor for X windows, please?
>
you can install your own little news server with leafnode and then use
any program as 'offline' nr.
Marc
--
Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://marc.mutz.com/
University of Bielefeld, Dep. of Mathematics / Dep. of Physics
PGP-keyID's: 0xd46ce9ab (RSA), 0x7ae55b9e (DSS/DH)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 18:46:43 +0100
From: Graham Higgins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can "top" memory use stats be trusted?
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Robert Heller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[ ... I expressed puzzlement about statistics reported by "top" .. ]
> GH> Am I missing something here?
>
> Yes.
[ ... Robert's lucid explanation elided ... ]
> All of this memory is really free RAM.
Thank you, Robert. My knowledge of the kernel's behaviour is lamentably
limited and I was having kittens about this. I appreciate your taking
the time to enlighten me.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 19:10:17 +0200
From: Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: extract files form image
sunchange lee wrote:
>
> hi:
> anybody know if there is a method or tool by which i can extract files
> from image file(*.img) into hard disk without using a floppy.
It's called 'loopback device': man mount; man losetup
Marc
--
Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://marc.mutz.com/
University of Bielefeld, Dep. of Mathematics / Dep. of Physics
PGP-keyID's: 0xd46ce9ab (RSA), 0x7ae55b9e (DSS/DH)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 19:16:07 +0200
From: Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Benchmarks for Linux
Ananda Rao Ladi wrote:
>
> Hi All
> Looking for some benchmarks tuned for linux. Have Linux running
> on a PC (1GB HDD, 32 MB RAM, pentium). Would like to run some
> benchmarks to verify some changes.
>
compile the kernel
Marc
--
Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://marc.mutz.com/
University of Bielefeld, Dep. of Mathematics / Dep. of Physics
PGP-keyID's: 0xd46ce9ab (RSA), 0x7ae55b9e (DSS/DH)
------------------------------
From: Holger Kruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Shortcomings of Linux?
Date: 18 Jul 1999 18:04:10 GMT
In comp.sys.amiga.misc Chris Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Holger doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. If he did he would've
> done what the Linux guys did and wrote his own IP stack instead of ripping
> off the BSD IP stack. It's just that simple.
Ah, yes, sure, people "who know what they are talking about" show
that by reinventing the wheel all the time. Yes, really, makes a
lot of sense :).
--
Holger Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.nordicglobal.com
NO COMMERCIAL SOLICITATION !
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Shortcomings of Linux?
From: "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 17:31:31 GMT
On or around 18 Jul 1999 16:31:41 GMT, Chris Lee wrote something about
"Re: Shortcomings of Linux?"...
> Holger doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. If he did he
> would've done what the Linux guys did and wrote his own IP stack
> instead of ripping off the BSD IP stack. It's just that simple.
ROTFL!!!
Yeah, right.
--
http://www.BuiltWithAmiga.org Member of Team *AMIGA* and ICOA
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rod Smith)
Subject: Re: Wordperfect and Linuxmall Confusion!
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 17:23:34 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Stephen Chadfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> The free version you can download is called the "Personal Edition". See:
>
> http://linux.corel.com/linux8/index.htm
Actually, the web page you've referenced talks about the retail version.
This may not be entirely clear until you hit the second paragraph, which
talks about files missing from the initial shipment CD. The only official
Corel site I'm aware of that uses different terms in one document to
discuss the three different versions of WP8 for Linux is
http://linux.corel.com/linux8/highlights.htm#breakdown, and that site
uses these terms:
Corel WordPerfect 8 for Linux (Downloadable Version)
Corel WordPerfect 8 for Linux (Personal Retail Version)
Corel WordPerfect 8 for Linux (Retail Server Edition)
--
Rod Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.channel1.com/users/rodsmith
NOTE: Remove the "uce" word from my address to mail me
Author of _Special Edition Using WordPerfect for Linux_, from Que
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (CLTCEvans)
Subject: help accessing drives in linux
Date: 18 Jul 1999 18:16:44 GMT
I have my hard drive (one physical drive) partitioned into four parts. One
partition is a linux one dedicated to linux itself and all of my linux
software. The other three are windows/dos partitions. Each windows/dos
partition and the linux partition is 2GB each. I want to be able to use the
partitions for windows/dos in linux. I was told i needed to mount the Hard
Drives under linux using the following command:
mount -t vfat/hdxx/folder
where the first x after hd is the letter of the drive i want to read and the
second x is the partition number. And the folder is the location in linux
where i want to mount the windows partition to.
Is this right? I can't seem to mount the hard drives (c1, d2, and e3). When
in the console emulator in open linux, and i type that command for each of the
drives i want to mount, it doesnt give me an error message, but i cant find the
drives to access them. Is there something I am doing wrong?
Also, do i need to mount them every time i boot linux? if so, is there a way i
can put a command in an initialization file so the commands are executed every
time linux boots?
Thanks, and sorry this is so long...i am new to liux and need some help
------------------------------
From: R. Christopher Harshman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,alt.os.linux
Subject: Dead daemons?
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 18:11:12 GMT
I've got a box that I administrate in California (this summer,
I'm in Missouri). It's running kernel 2.2.9 and Slackware 3.5
(heavily modified). I telnet in occasionally (once a day or
so) to make sure everything's more or less kosher, and logfiles
get rotated and emailed to me very night.
A few days ago, the box wasn't responding to telnet or ftp
connections, but ping and apache were still working. I
figured inetd had somehow stopped responding, and remembered
that we had installed 'sshd' after the fact, and that it
was running from /etc/rc.d/rc.local, so I was able to get
in using secure shell. Sure enough, inetd was not listed
among the processes when I did a ps -aux. So, as root,
I fired it back up, and all was well.
Now, yesterday, the messages file that arrived in my inbox
was completely blank (unheard of, even in the summer; there
are always people POP'ing in to check mail, etc), so
I telnetted in to find syslogd not running. No problem,
I su'd to root and fired it back up, and /var/log/messages
is growing accordingly.
But now I'm troubled. What would cause two more or less
reliable pieces of an otherwise rock-solid system (54 days
of uptime since the last time a power outage extended
beyond our UPS capacity) to fail? The rest of the machine
is running normally, and no bizarre error messages have
appeared anywhere (debug, etc).
If anyone has any ideas... Thanks!
- Chris
--
R. Christopher Harshman http://ebhon.jnst.uor.edu/~harshman
Going for a B.S. : "Information Systems and Media Production" (JNST-UOR)
Celeron 300a | i440BX | Mystique 220 + RRStudio | SB Live! | Win98
PIII-450 | i440BX-2 | Fusion AGP 3Dfx Banshee | Yamaha PCI | Linux / NT
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: Rajesh Rajesh Radhakrishnan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Unable to Change Monitor's Resolution
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:22:46 -0400
Hi,
I bought a 17" Proview (EMC) SA-769 monitor that said it could run at
1280x1024 resolution @60Hz. I have a Trident TGUI9660 video card with
2048 Kbytes of video RAM.
I am unable to get it to run at 1280x1024 or even 1024x768. I am running
at the X server's default resolution 640x480.
All I get is a blank screen with the 1000+ resolutions and Ctrl-Alt +/-
doesn't help at all.
I previously had a 14" monitor with which I had no problems running at
its max resolution.
I have run out of ideas. I have tried XF86Setup, Xconfigurator,
xf86config and hand editing the XF86Config file.
Is there a problem with my video card/monitor. any errors or warnings to
look out for....
Any suggestions.
Thanks in advance
Rajesh
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Arnold)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Iomega ZIP parallel zip drive under red hat linux 6.0 problem solved
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 18:18:16 GMT
Phillip George Geiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Thanks to all that sent me suggestions on how to get the $%(#!! thing
>working. Help, particularly the free kind, is always appreciated.
>
>Success came when, contrary to what the FAQ implies, I discovered that
>a parallel port zip drive is not ALWAYS /dev/sda4.
>
>On my computer it happened to be /dev/sdc4 -- maybe that's because I
>have 3 SCSI adapters in it and a handful of SCSI hard drives and peripherals.
>I dunno.
>
>So if you're ready to take a chainsaw to your spiffy new ZIP drive because
>you've done
> $ insmod parport
> $ insmod ppa
> $ mount -t vfat /dev/sda4 /zipdrive
>and all the damn thing says back to you is
> mount: /dev/sda4 is not a valid block device
>try /dev/somethingelse, in particular /dev/sdb4, /dev/sdc4, and so on.
What dist/version are you running? I couldn't get mine to work, and I only
have one SCSI device (the main boot drive). How many devices do you have
total? sdc would be the third device; which adapter is it associated with?
The Iomega parallel port device looks like a separate SCSI adapter; on mine I
couldn't even get the ppa.o module to load because it wanted to use sda4 and
my main hard disk is already sda. How/where do I tell the zip module to use a
different SCSI disk device? Do I need to change the driver source code?
Thanks in advance, Steve
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Lamb)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.caldera,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Did you switch from Windows to Linux?
Date: 18 Jul 1999 17:36:35 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:07:35 GMT, Monte Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The UNIX world was never a player in desktop publishing
Don't let LaTeX fool you.
>That is a highly arrogant attitude, you apparently have little
>knowledge of the many applications that computers are being used for.
I agree with him and I do know what applications computers are used for.
So far I've never had a need to get past basic ASCII editing while being
bombarded with emails written in Word. Fancy that.
>LInux/and its flavors are the premiere bar none best server OS for
>PC's.
Mind you, I prefer Linux more than anything else, but... I think the
FreeBSD camp would take exception to your statement that Linux is the best
server OS since they appear to think, and do have some numbers to back up
their notion that FreeBSD is the best server IS, bar none, for the PC.
>It got that way from the cooperation of some of the most talented programmers
>working collectively on that one aspect. Now we need to get some great
>programmers to start writing applications that are up to speed with the real
>world.
Define what applications would be up to speed with "the real world." I
hope it isn't monolithic because monolithic doesn't work.
>Its just a matter of time and talent. But to say that such exists now is
>absolutely ludicrous and makes linux a laughing stock when such as you spout
>such inanities. Stick toi the facts, which is that linux is the best server.
Oh, Sun might also want to have words with you since they do have Solaris
for the x86. Please, don't go rabid on us. What was said is sound.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
===============================+=============================================
------------------------------
From: Holger Kruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Shortcomings of Linux?
Date: 18 Jul 1999 18:00:18 GMT
In comp.sys.amiga.misc Anthony Ord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> It is maintained by hobby programmers,
> No it isn't. It is maintained by Alan Cox who works for Red
> Hat. It is his *job* to maintain the networking code (along
> with other things like the Video for Linux project.
I have been in contact with a lot of Linux TCP/IP developers
in the past, discussing bugs in Linux and general progress.
None of those people work for RedHat.
> What does a TCPIP stack specifically have to do with
> multimedia?
Everything. The seamless integration of video, audio and TCP/IP
networking is exactly what the AmigaNG is supposed to achieve.
Video/audio transport across IP is fastest-growing application
of IP, measured by the number and frequency of standards for it.
> In terms of the Internet, or indeed anywhere where they
> don't have numerical dominance, they usually fall flat on
> their arse most times.
Trouble is they HAVE numerical dominance on the Internet.
There are more Win-PCs on the Internet than all other computers
taken together. Just look how MS-CHAP become a "standard"
almost overnight, against the resistance of IETF-PPPEXT.
All Microsoft has to do is implement something in both
Win-NT and -95/98, and other OS and router manufacturers
are forced to implement the same feature in their software
because otherwise ISPs will switch platforms (to NT).
Happens all the time. It happened with MS-CHAP and later
again with PPTP.
> No it isn't. DHCP was postulated by Ralph Droms of Bucknell
> University in RFC1531 (superseded by RFC1541)
and RFC2131
> during 1993.
> Some of the ideas came from Sun's dickless workstations.
Ralph Droms is the author of the RFC. The work group was
larger than just person. Microsoft has had a leading
role in pushing DHCP, primarily for use with cable modems
and ADSL, and also to finally "officially" sanction the
"magic vendor extensions", turn them into options and
extend their functionality. Many of these options are
directly intended for Microsoft stacks, e.g. all of the
NetBIOS stuff.
The DHCP state machine was AFAIK not originally Microsoft's
idea, but many of the other changes from BootP to DHCP
were pushed by Microsoft.
> What was M$ doing with TCPIP in 1993?
Implementing it.
> And where they screw up, is that if it is popular, they try
> to keep it a closed standard, (often adding even more
> proprietary stuff) and if its unpopular they try to make it
> an open standard. Of course it is unpopular for a reason, so
> this strategy tends not to work.
But it does work. MS-CHAP was extremely unpopular, broke
some PPP implementations, has major security flaws (even in
V2), yet Microsoft pushed it through by implementing it
in 95/98/NT, and now everybody is using it. Even third parties
were forced to implement it, or they would have lost market
share.
> >> Of course this only works if Microsoft actually succeeds
> >> in making their ideas standards, and recently they have,
> Examples?
"Standards" not necessarily in the sense of IETF standards,
but in the sense of procedures that are fully documented and
implemented by many vendors, following Microsoft's lead.
Examples: MS-CHAP, PPTP, many NetBIOS-related protocols.
Also many variations of Plug'n'Play.
> Rubbish. I'm not saying they all use Linux, but I am saying
> that there are some non-BSD users among them.
Yes, *some* :).
> But the results aren't always, simply because of commercial
> advantage.
The commercial advantage of being beaten by Microsoft ? :-)
Very often results ARE published.
> Linux is starting to drive development in some areas. Look
> for kvoicecontrol.
kvoicecontrol is a utility, an application, not an Internet
standard. Of course Linux spawns application development.
That has nothing to do with Linux TCP/IP though.
> >>Considering how amateurish (not meant in a
> >> degrading way)
> Yes it is meant in a degrading way.
No, it is not. If you choose to interpret it incorrectly then
that it is your decision. The point is that different development
styles are suitable for different things. Distributed development
under GPL would not be my first choice for convergence platforms
and vertical markets.
> When Linux started out, it was a couple of guys in Finland.
> Now there are thousands of support people out there. If this
> makes Linux weaker and more susceptible to M$, then that is
> an inversion of the historical definition of strength.
No, what IMHO will make Linux weaker is the transformation of
the Internet in the next 3-5 years. Of course there is no way
to prove this yet. I am just predicting it...
> Do you think this guy has heard of the Internet? Travelling
> to communicate? Travelling to use software? Please.
Huh ? Are you intentionally dense here or do you simply have
no clue how interoperability testing is done ? Have you
ever heard of IETF workshops, bakeoffs etc. ? Why don't you
tell me how you want to test interoperability of cable modems,
ATM routers, scalability of IP protocols under high load,
PPP interoperability etc. on the Internet ? These things are
always done at a single location.
> Then why is BSD not growing at the rate Linux is if it has
> "a much better chance"?
At the moment Linux is growing more quickly because of its
marketing strategy. As I said, just wait and see...
> That's right. It also holds true for *BSD. If you program
> stuff correctly, you could switch back-and-forth every day.
It depends on what "stuff" is. You would need to restrict
yourself to a rather small common API subset.
> Except at the top of this rant he said "There are three
> major TCP/IP stack families: BSD, Microsoft and Linux." So
> he's contradicted himself.
No, not at all. I simply don't give Linux-TCP/IP as much of
a chance in the next few years as the other implementations.
> No. The reason why Linux can not be used in AmigaOS is that
> you can't proprietise it because of the GPL.
That is not THE reason, that MAY be ONE reason, but it has
nothing to do with my points.
As for GPL rules: Read the technology brief Amiga Inc. has
published and the GPL license and you will see that GPL
regulations are not as much of a problem in this case as
you may think.
> Any
> improvements they make to it for commercial advantage would
> have to be shared so everyone would benefit.
Not really. It would, e.g., be rather easy to make an
improvement to Linux that allows external modules and
callbacks to be installed. In that case only the glue code
for that would have to be published under GPL. The modules
with the functional extensions would not have to be. They
could be considered "independent and separate works" and fall
under the "aggregation of another work" clause of GPL, and
would thus not have to be subject to GPL.
> Concentrating on the TCPIP stack (which is a small part of
> any OS) is just a red-herring.
No. The TCP/IP stack is one of the few areas where Linux has
fundamental differences to other operating systems. Plus
TCP/IP will enormously gain both in complexity and in
importance over the next few years, in particular for the
market AmigaNG is aiming it. TCP/IP may very well become the
key component of a new AmigaOS.
> And that boys and girls was an example of how to write FUD
> to obscure your motivations. I hope you are suitably
> impressed and have learned from it.
Next time you may want to actually try to understand the
arguments in the context they were presented.
--
Holger Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.nordicglobal.com
NO COMMERCIAL SOLICITATION !
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: recommend mySQL guide/how-to for absolute clueless
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 18:03:21 GMT
You can download a MySQL manual from the
www.mysql.com site or one of its mirrors.
Andrian
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
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