Linux-Misc Digest #85, Volume #21 Mon, 19 Jul 99 16:13:08 EDT
Contents:
HP 4150 lameness (part I) ("David J. Topper")
Re: Marx vs. Nozick (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Marx vs. Nozick (toby)
Re: help accessing drives in linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: root password (Gernot Fink)
Re: dds-1 tape drive question ("Caliban")
Re: Shortcomings of Linux? (Cameron L. Spitzer)
Re: HELP PLEASE!! saving a linux file in windows 98 (Cameron L. Spitzer)
Re: Shells (Cameron L. Spitzer)
Re: Marx vs. Nozick ("Anthony D. Tribelli")
Re: Marx vs. Nozick (Greg Yantz)
Turtle Beach sound cards (Deryk Barker)
Re: Iomega ZIP parallel zip drive under red hat linux 6.0 problem solved (Sitaram
Chamarty)
Re: Marx vs. Nozick (Ashley Penney)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "David J. Topper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.portable,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: HP 4150 lameness (part I)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:02:21 -0400
Hey folks,
I hope at some point to put up a page (like several others) documenting
my experience with Hewlett Packard and the purchase of a new Omnibook
4150. But things are progressing such that I feel the need to post a
play-by-play.
BACKGROUND: I spend hours on the phone with HP sales and tech. support
making sure I was getting a) the machine I wanted and b) a machine with
the correct audio and video chipsets to run Linux.
FOUL-UP #1: I placed an order for a new 400mhz 4150 with all bells and
whistles, and a few extras. This was on Wednesday of last week. I paid
extra for next day air. I called to check on Friday (that's 2 days
later) to see what was going wrong. My unit shipped that morning. Oops
on their part. They say they'll credit me the cost of next day
shipping.
FOUL-UP #2: So I of course get to work today, anxiously awaiting my new
laptop. It came! I decide to just boot it up and give it a test
drive. Install Win98, ok, I can stand that for a few hours. :-) I
decide to check some system configs. To my surprise, I find the audio
chip is a Neomagic! This is contra the 3 phone conversations I had with
HP to ensure I was getting a machine with a Crystal Sound chip (fully
supported by OSS).
FOUL-UP #3: My suspicion growing, I decide to check out the BIOS. Once
again to my surprise, I find that this unit has a 366mhz processor,
instead of the 400mhz one I ordered!
FOUL-UP #4: I've been on hold with HP for over 1/2 an hour now. I'm
serious. Thankfully I'm at work and can do other things while my
speaker phone yammers on about "Please wait for the next available rep."
I had thought this purchase was a good thing. I mean, I felt good about
buying from a company like HP instead of a "one off" vendor like:
http://www.bstore.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpbs/initsession.jsp?t=932406051
Things like "3 year warranty" and HP's fine Unix tradition just made me
feel good inside. Never mind the $4,000+ pricetag. I wanted quality.
I might be way wrong on that line of thinking. I think I need to
reevaluate the benefit/disadvantage of buying from such a big company.
I post here to give others food for thought in this department.
Still on hold ...
Dave Topper
--
Technical Director, Virginia Center for Computer Music
Programmer / Analyst, Dean's Office (School of A&S)
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~djt7p
(804) 924-6887
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Marx vs. Nozick
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:34:45 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 19 Jul 1999 05:29:54 GMT...
..and Richard Kulisz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Matthias Warkus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >It was the 18 Jul 1999 11:35:36 GMT...
> >..and Richard Kulisz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> The free market works in NO situation. Capitalism, understood as
> >> dictatorship by the capitalists, "works" only if human dignity and
> >> human needs are irrelevant.
> >
> >Of course the free market works in some situations.
>
> Free market => large-scale competition => large-scale conflict == war
Nonsense. A working free market is always regulated competition, and
if you argue that even regulated competition is just a scale-down war,
you could claim that anyone advocating competitive sports is a
warmonger. The silliness of that argument should be obvious.
> What's this about the supposed benefits of war?
>
> >No. Capitalism is based on competition, but competition need not
> >entrail destruction. How you come to associate capitalism with
> >dictatorship is beyond me...
>
> The distinguishing characteristic of competition is destruction.
No.
[rave rave]
> >The human nature is not homogeneous. Inside every single man, there is
>
> I wasn't referring to human nature. That war is bad is an obvious fact of
> nature, same with cooperation being good (almost by definition in fact).
>
> >both the urge to cooperate with others and the urge to destroy others.
> >(Come on all the Freudians: "Eros, Thanatos, rah, rah, rah!") The key
> >to viable social and political systems is acceptance and integration
> >of both these urges.
>
> Bullshit. The key to viable social and political systems is
> *suppression* of destructive tendencies, the way the Japanese
> suppress anger.
Oh, the Japanese make a great example of a viable society. LOL.
> How are you supposed to "integrate" murder
> into society?? You don't!
I'm talking about accepting the urges themselves, not their
expressions.
> The idea of "acceptance" is quack-talk. No serious psychiatrist
> believes that giving vent to anger serves any cathartic purpose.
> Rather, it's known that expressing anger only serves to make a
> person more angry and violent, even towards innocent strangers.
"No serious psychiatrist believes"... "Rather, it's known"... What a
great argument based on facts.
> So it's clear that you *must* suppress destructive tendencies,
> and it should be clear that you *can* do so indefinitely. That
> this is not obvious comes from quacks bullshiting about things
> they know nothing about, and the American public desperately
> looking for a way to rationalize its violent tendencies.
>
> >The fundamental error of both capitalism and socialism is thinking
> >that such a viable system can be built on solely one urge, violently
> >suppressing the other.
>
> Destruction can and /must/ be suppressed. Just listen to yourself talk;
> how appalled would you be if someone advocated letting psychopaths run
> amock? Well, that's exactly what capitalists are!
Someone's losing their grasp on reality.
mawa
--
Troll, troll, troll your post
Gently down the feed
Merrily, merrily troll along
A life is what you need...
------------------------------
From: toby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Marx vs. Nozick
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:36:24 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Wrap should be client-side.
>Oversensitive people are silly, I
>won't get upset and cry if you call me a stupid limey moron, especially when
>followed by (JOKING!).
Not overly sensitive, just sensitive. I've lived in the America South all of my life.
No
one in my famliy has ever had sex with a relative, nor a farm animal. I imagine that
you
would engender the same response, if you were to insert 'nigger', 'chink' or 'wop' into
the spot where 'redneck' currently resides. I do think that the aforementioned racial
epithets are a bit more charged than 'redneck,' but 'redneck' is still offensive. I
would be greatly pleasured to see your staying power in America with asinine views such
as 'eugenics', low-brow Malthusian economics and a vulgar way of addressing the rest of
humanity with epithets. Bandy a term like 'redneck' around in the worng places and see
what would happen. Please keep your idiotic and foul language to yourself. What is
truly
offensive is your desensitivity and that is not funny.
T.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: help accessing drives in linux
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:16:42 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Vito DeFilippo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Lets say your Windows98 is installed on /dev/hda1 and you create a directory in
>Linux called /mnt/win98.
>
>Then the command is "mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /mnt/win98" without the quotes. In
>the example you posted, you seem to have no space between the device and the mount
>point, which must be there.
>
>If you have root access, which I assume you do, you can also configure this
>permanently using the program "linuxconf" (at least in RedHat you can). Choose the
>section on "accessing local drives" and add the mount points you want.
>
>CLTCEvans wrote:
>
>> I have my hard drive (one physical drive) partitioned into four parts. One
...<snip>...
I'm a slackware user and not familiar with linuxconf. But what I
would guess is that it is a tool for modifying the file /etc/fstab. This is
an ASCII file that can be modified (assuming you have permissions) by any
text editor (vi, emacs,...). There's even a man page for fstab. I recommend
that you learn how to edit it directly as a way of becoming a little more
familiar with your linux system.
--
Cleave yourself to logodedaly and you cleave yourself from clarity
also: remove "UhUh" and "Spam" to get my real email address -----
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gernot Fink)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: root password
Date: 19 Jul 1999 19:19:38 GMT
In article <7mvibi$5bl$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Brad Ball" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>Quiney, Philip (EXCHANGE:HAL02:HM10) wrote in message >
>>You can start the system in single user mode. At the LILO prompt type:
>>linux single
>>
>>When it finishes you will have a shell as root already logged in. You
>
>
> WHAT!? Is this true? I must be missing something because this would be a
> HUGE security hole. There should be no way of getting root access without
> entering the root password. Can someone confirm/deny/explain the above?
>
> Brad.
>
>
Read the docu from lilo.
There are many options to prevent such security holes.
(passwords for options,....)
--
MFG G.Fink
------------------------------
From: "Caliban" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: dds-1 tape drive question
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:42:25 +0200
The 35470, will do 2GB. It does not have hardware compression.
There are quite some possibillities,
As said earlier, using larger blocks reduce the overhead and might increase
the amount of data stored on a tape.
Additionally, you might want to try a new tape. If the tape has a lot of
wear, it will do a lot of RAW retries and use more tape length thus reducing
the potential storage capacity on the tape. You can hear this happening when
the drive makes a lot of 'click's' indicating that the internal cleaner is
used a lot. I trust you have used a cleaning tape to alleviate dirty heads ?
To alleviate the problems of dump and it's settings, you might want to try
tar or cpio with a larger than default blocksize (8KB, 16KB or 32KB) and see
if this improves the situation a bit.
Hope this helps you out.
regards,
Caliban
Robert Hunter wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>greetings,
>
>i am trying to get to the bottom of an issue i am having with my tape
>drive.
>
>i am using 90 meter HP dds-1 tapes with an HP 35470A scsi tape drive.
>i am runing redhat 6, and rpm dump-0.4b4-7.
>
>i should be getting 2 GB per tape, natively (no compression), but am
>only getting around 750 MB.
>
>'mt' says that my tape DENSITY is 61000BPI, but this yields the
>capacity i mentioned above.
>
>i have not tried messing with LENGTH and BLOCKSIZE parameters.
>
>i really appreciate any suggestions about how i can get closer to the
>rated capacity of these tapes.
>
>tia,
>rh
>
>-----------------
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>-----------------
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron L. Spitzer)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Shortcomings of Linux?
Date: 19 Jul 1999 18:32:07 GMT
In article <7mvh9g$ouo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Kevin Lamonte wrote:
> Which "Linux API" is so unique
>that it must be compared separately from BSD?
lockf(3) [mandatory, POSIX] v. flock(2) [advisory, BSD] ?
Cameron
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron L. Spitzer)
Subject: Re: HELP PLEASE!! saving a linux file in windows 98
Date: 19 Jul 1999 18:09:03 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Leonard Evens wrote:
>James Boehnlein wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can someone please help me out?? I am root and the only thing I did
>> is put this line in my etc/fstab
>>
>> /dev/hda /root/c vfat auto,users 0 0
This line is wrong. Should be
/dev/hda1 /root/c vfat auto,users 0 0
Hda1 is the first partition. Hda is the whole drive.
You're lucky it failed to mount.
>> What is going on here - How did I save the Linux files in Windows
>> 98?? What might I be doing wrong?? Thanks in advance.
>> Jim
>I think you have to specifically say the file system is
>rw.
Nope, rw is the default. That's why you have to say ro for
root and the CD. Root mounts ro so init(8) and friends can run.
Early in the rc.d/init.d scripts, root is sanity-checked and
remounted rw. The CD is ro to avoid the error when the kernel would
try to update the last-accessed times.
Cameron
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron L. Spitzer)
Subject: Re: Shells
Date: 19 Jul 1999 18:17:49 GMT
In article <7mvhoe$vob$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I know there are many different shells available for linux. What are
>the most popular shells and what are the +'s and -'s for each shell.
>Currently using bash. I would like to hear all of your opinions, so I
>hope to hear many threads. TIA.
Shells are a great thing to have a silly religious war about. Most people
like whichever one they grew up with. I like the POSIX shells (Bourne,
ksh, bash) because I read a nice book about shell scripts (_Tricks of
the Unix Masters_, Russell Sage) and learned their syntax. People who
read a good book about C shell scripts like C Shell and its clones better.
Bash is great. Too big for a rescue floppy, though, and takes some
configuration. Use ash for rescue floppies.
COMMAND.COM sucks. It's the only sucky shell I can think of right now.
Cameron
------------------------------
From: "Anthony D. Tribelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Marx vs. Nozick
Date: 19 Jul 1999 19:00:12 GMT
Richard Kulisz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The distinguishing characteristic of competition is destruction. In
> any situation that isn't destructive, you can easily assign greed or
> cooperation as possible motives. The only time when the motive for
> an action *must* be competition is when the action is destructive.
Ignorant and silly. The Olympics contains an extremely high degree of
competition and there is no destruction of the participants.
> An employer tells you when you can piss, when you can eat, where you
> have to sit, and what you have to do for a third of your day. Sure as
> bloody hell sounds like a dictator to me!
The above situation has occured in both capitialist and socialist
settings, it is independent of political theory underlying a nation.
> Btw, there is a sharp difference between the *real* and the propaganda
> meanings of capitalism. In the propaganda, capitalism is based on the
> free market. But nothing could be further from reality. There are no
> functioning free markets on the entire planet. In every "free market",
> all the producers are bled dry very quickly; it's a chaotic implosion
> of an industry. The free-market rhetoric is that producers fight each
> other and consumers swoop down like vultures for the easy pickings. I
> note that my describing the free market as a perpetual war is dead on.
It is so amusing to watch you compare and contrast the 'communist world'
and the 'capitalist world'. You use the real world only with respect to
capitalism. When someone attempts to use real world communism you claim
'no fair', that these aren't proper communist states according to the
theoretical model presented by Marx. Your arguments along this line are
about as valid as some saying that capitalism should only be judged by the
theoretical model Gene Roddenbury presented in Star Trek. Any time you
judge an optimistic and fanciful theory against the real world the fantasy
looks better.
Tony
------------------------------
From: Greg Yantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Marx vs. Nozick
Date: 19 Jul 1999 15:57:40 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus) writes:
> It was the 19 Jul 1999 05:57:10 GMT...
> ..and Stefaan A Eeckels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus) writes:
> > > It was the 18 Jul 1999 13:39:35 GMT...
> > > ..and Stefaan A Eeckels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> Harumph. The natural world *does* run on competition, rather
> > >> than on cooperation: competition for food and living space,
> > >> both inter and intra species.
True enough. Resources are always limited, and life will always try
to use more than what's available...
> > >> When left alone, nature weeds out the weaker, and the stronger
> > >> get to procreate.
Unfortunately the competition is very much based on circumstances, and
circumstances change. Thus the mass-extinctions of over-specialized
species when climates change, and the continued success of generalists.
You have to take that competition thing with a certain grain of salt.
> > > Men are not animals.
Oh, yes they are. Where *did* you grow up, boy? Some of us like to think
that we are very special animals, because we can do things that no other
animals can (so far as we know); that we are blessed with self-awareness.
> > Humans most definitely *are* animals. Thinking that we're
> > somehow special WRT the rest of wht lives on this planet
> > is a dangerous form of hubris.
Forgetting that humans are animals, that people also have an animal
nature, is just very *dangerous*. Period.
> Nonsense. No matter how you argue, you won't get around the fact that
> humans are capable of reasoned and abstract thought and that animals
> don't.
We have hunger and lust. We're animals. Until we get rid of those,
we're animals. We can try to not let our animal natures rule our
activites, however.
> > > Nature doing something in a certain way does not
> > > imply that mankind should do it the same way; often it implies that
> > > one should indeed do it the opposite way.
Perhaps you should draw a distinction between the animal way of doing
things (your "Nature") and a conscious/enlightened/self-aware (your "mankind")
way of doing things.
> > If you want to see it like that (and I didn't advance any
> > form of this reasoning), then you're wrong. What we do
> > is "nature". We're as much part of nature as anything else.
> > Don't let 2000 years of judeo-christiansm cloud your thinking.
There's nothing wrong with trying to use our vaunted intelligence
to build something better than the State of Nature. You're just
arguing over terms. Bloody pedant.
> I'm not religious, and the influence of judeo-christianism on me is
> pretty much zilch. Nevertheless, the fact remains that every human
> culture so far has developed a philosophy that emphasises cooperation,
> as opposed to the competition that is prevalent in nature.
Where *did* you grow up, boy? You watch too much Star trek.
> Social darwinist theories like anarcho-capitalism, libertarianism and
> such are thus essentially barbarian.
No.
> > >> Anybody basing their concept of society on the false
> > >> assumption that humans are by nature cooperative is
> > >> living in cloud-cuckoo land.
True enough. Some of us are, to a greater or lesser extent, and it does
us credit. However, many (most?) aren't.
[silliness snipped]
> Of course that is based on human nature. You obviously misparsed me.
> We should base our systems on human nature, not on false and
> overgeneralising assumptions about human nature. Got me?
That's a nice sentiment. You should pay attention to it. You, a German,
of all people should be aware of how, even the most learned and civilized
of nations is full of potentially bloodthirsty animals. It's something you
have to accept and guard against.
-Greg
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Turtle Beach sound cards
Date: 19 Jul 1999 17:52:26 GMT
A while back I asked about sound cards for linux which would give good
input as well as output. Someone suggested the Turtle Beach Fiji, but
it seems to appear in the "unsupported" section of the HOWTO.
Can anyone confirm that the TB Fiji does work with Linux? Is there any
point in shelling out for the DSP chip option?
--
|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Music does not have to be understood|
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada| It has to be listened to. |
|email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |
|phone: +1 250 370 4452 | Hermann Scherchen. |
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sitaram Chamarty)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Iomega ZIP parallel zip drive under red hat linux 6.0 problem solved
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:28:10 GMT
On 16 Jul 1999 15:25:59 GMT, Phillip George Geiger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Thanks to all that sent me suggestions on how to get the $%(#!! thing
>working. Help, particularly the free kind, is always appreciated.
>
>Success came when, contrary to what the FAQ implies, I discovered that
>a parallel port zip drive is not ALWAYS /dev/sda4.
>
>On my computer it happened to be /dev/sdc4 -- maybe that's because I
>have 3 SCSI adapters in it and a handful of SCSI hard drives and peripherals.
>I dunno.
>
>So if you're ready to take a chainsaw to your spiffy new ZIP drive because
>you've done
> $ insmod parport
> $ insmod ppa
> $ mount -t vfat /dev/sda4 /zipdrive
>and all the damn thing says back to you is
> mount: /dev/sda4 is not a valid block device
>try /dev/somethingelse, in particular /dev/sdb4, /dev/sdc4, and so on.
<grin>
Or you can look in /var/log/messages (or wherever your syslog
writes to), where - as soon as "insmod ppa" succeeds, you will see
something like this (note the last line - I suspect you would have
seen sdc instead of sda there!)
Jul 19 12:51:44 ltsitaram kernel: ppa: Version 2.03 (for Linux 2.2.x)
Jul 19 12:51:44 ltsitaram kernel: ppa: Found device at ID 6, Attempting to use EPP 32
bit
Jul 19 12:51:44 ltsitaram kernel: ppa: Communication established with ID 6 using EPP
32 bit
Jul 19 12:51:44 ltsitaram kernel: scsi0 : Iomega VPI0 (ppa) interface
Jul 19 12:51:44 ltsitaram kernel: scsi : 1 host.
Jul 19 12:51:44 ltsitaram kernel: Vendor: IOMEGA Model: ZIP 100 Rev:
J.03
Jul 19 12:51:44 ltsitaram kernel: Type: Direct-Access ANSI
SCSI revision: 02
Jul 19 12:51:44 ltsitaram kernel: Detected scsi removable disk sda at scsi0, channel
0, id 6, lun 0
Jul 19 12:51:45 ltsitaram kernel: SCSI device sda: hdwr sector= 512 bytes. Sectors=
196608 [96 MB] [0.1 GB]
Jul 19 12:51:45 ltsitaram kernel: sda: Write Protect is off
Jul 19 12:51:45 ltsitaram kernel: sda: sda4
Linux doesn't keep things secret ;-)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ashley Penney)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Marx vs. Nozick
Date: 19 Jul 1999 18:53:37 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 19 Jul 1999 18:25:27 +0100, Phillip Lord ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) gabbered:
:>>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Penney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
:
: Ashley> I wouldn't call short sightedness a horrible disease, I'm
: Ashley> talking about the much more major diseases, and you
: Ashley> generally know when you have those. :)
:
: Diabetes was fatal not that long ago, but it doesnt need to
:be these days.
Assuming Diabetes is passed down thru the genes, then it means that it
will slowly spread until we all suffer from the same genetic weakness.
: Ashley> An average american child uses as much resources as 800
: Ashley> ethopians at the current rate. We are rapidly becoming
: Ashley> over-populated as it is.
:
: Well this is true. However Im not sure that your solution
:is helpful to the problem.
Problem is, there aren't really many other solutions. People won't
stop having children on their own, and unless we adopt the methods
of the chinese, regarding population limiting.
My first solution would be forcing all teen mothers to give up their
child for adoption, and then being thrown in jail, along with the
father. If a teenager is stupid enough to have sex illegally, and
then bring a child into the world, they deserve to be punished and
the child deserves to live in a home capable of raising them properly.
: Ashley> Plus, I've worked with mentally disabled people as well,
: Ashley> just so you know I'm not 100% evil.
:
: I didnt say that you were evil, I said that some of your
:ideas would turn out evil. People hold evil ideas for all sorts of
:reasons. Occasionally its because they are themselves evil but I
:wouldnt want to generalise.
I know you didn't, I just put that there for the benefit of others
who might jump in and invoke Godwins law straight away.
: Ashley> Sure, I don't want to die, but that doesn't mean I consider
: Ashley> everyone else's death to be tragic. Hell, when you read how
: Ashley> some of the people died they deserved it for their own
: Ashley> stupidity. Darwinism works.
:
: Well I agree some people show a breathless degree of
:stupidity. On the whole I think education is the best response to
:this.
I'd like to think that's so, but sadly education seems to be going
downhill, often directly linked to the growing class size. It's a
vicious circle that's hard to break. :/
: Ashley> I feel empathy for a few people, I dislike the majority of
: Ashley> people.
:
: Well I dont know the majority of the people. There are
:very few people that I actively dislike, mostly those I can just
:ignore.
I dislike the general stupidity shown by most people, it's just one
of the little things that bug me. I tend to come off a lot colder
on Usenet than I do in real life. I tend to moderate my feelings in
real life so as to not cause trouble. :)
: Ashley> Thank you, it's always nice to be able to get involved in a
: Ashley> decent discussion on usenet without it turning into a
: Ashley> mud-slinging match.
:
: Ive never been one to sling mud. If I sit here and call you
:all sorts of rude words, you aint even going to read what I say. I
:dont learn what you think, you dont learn what I think, and we are
:none the wiser.
Amen to that! I just wish more people thought that way, I don't mind
swearing etc, it's when the discussion ends up going in a loop, with
both sides refusing to concede any points. The worst is when someone
drags up a post you made at the start of the discussion and shouts
about how your opinion has changed, that doesn't lead to useful
discussions.
: Ashley> I'm curious as to why you find it evil however, I guess I'm
: Ashley> curious as to the motivations of most people.
:
: Ive already said that I find your ideas on genetics
:uninformed, but aside from that I think that you need a little
:historical perspective. The early eugenics debacle consisted of
:sterilising people for all sorts of reasons, from straight forward
:racism, to petty mindedness.
This is one of the things I can agree is totally wrong. I totally
hate racism. If you're going to dislike someone based on skin colour,
you're an idiot. If you're going to dislike someone, regardless of
skin colour, because they are a moron then that's fine.
: At the start of the 21st century I think one of the most
:worrying political developments is the upsurge of nationalism which is
:happening globally. Much of it for good reasons (Eastern Timor would
:be a nice example), but it is none the less a worrying sign. If it
:carries it I think it will be responsible for a lot of violence in the
:next century. Your views I feel can so easily be used to enfore these
:ideas.
Well, I generally have little faith in any country, because of the mob
rule, which basically states that people act far stupider when in a
group than they do alone. This is why most governments end up sucking.
This is another example of why I have such little faith in the world,
I seriously believe we will have removed ourselfs from the earth before
much longer. Sad, but true.
: We have already seen where eugenics ended up in WWII, and
:since then in ethnic cleansing in Rwanda, and the Balkans. I have to
:be honest Im surprised that you ask why I dislike the ideas behind
:it.
It's a tricky issue, I agree that most ethnic cleansing that has been
seen so far is competely wrong. My idea of "cleansing" starts with
common sense things like not allowing people to piss in the gene pool.
: Ashley> I find that
: Ashley> most people feel that humans are extra special.
:
: As Ive said I do believe that, simply because I am
:also human.
You have far more faith in humanity than me, which I guess is good. I
just wish I was able to share that faith, I imagine I'd be a happier
person for a start.
--
Ashley Penney - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The dinosaurs died because they didn't have a space program. -- Arthur C Clarke
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
