Linux-Misc Digest #224, Volume #21 Fri, 30 Jul 99 15:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: Magic SysRq (was Re: Linux has finally crashed) (TurkBear)
Re: helping the Third World (Matt Cole)
Re: Superuser (Lew Pitcher)
Which Multi-port serial for Linux 2.2? (Chris Raper)
Re: What I think of linux. (David Mcilroy)
Re: Real player G2 beta for linux (coffee)
Re: helping the Third World (Richard Kulisz)
Boot sector/SCSI driver viruses and CD AutoRun (was Re: Linux and Viruses - Not the
same old question) (Lucius Chiaraviglio)
SB PCI 128 Config (David)
Re: Magic SysRq (was Re: Linux has finally crashed) (Martin Collins)
RH 6.0 and Iomega PP zip driver (Dan Bizuneh)
Re: Red Hat 6.0 and passwd command (Daniel Forester)
Re: Superuser (Daniel Forester)
Re: Magic SysRq (was Re: Linux has finally crashed) ("Tom Emerson")
Re: Linux has finally crashed (OrangeDino)
Re: SB PCI 128 Config (fIPS)
Re: RH 6.0 and Iomega PP zip driver (Miguel Rodriguez Artacho)
Re: helping the Third World (TheFreedomFighter)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (TurkBear)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Magic SysRq (was Re: Linux has finally crashed)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:33:15 GMT
Reply-To: See Message body for real address
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin Collins) wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:05:13 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Philip W.
>Darnowsky) wrote:
>
>>This does sound pretty cool, but what I wanted to know was if anyone knew
>>what the *original* use of SysRq was and how it got onto the keyboard on
>>the first place.
>
>I believe it comes from old mainframe terminals though it's exact use
>I don't know.
>
>Martin
>_________________________________________________________________
>We see here a curious instance of that frequent mental phenomenon
>:- the precise inversion of the truth by a superficial view.
> Benjamin R. Tucker 1899
Yes, it was used when connected to a mainframe terminal session and could be
used as an 'interrupt' type command that would allow you to issue system
commands - like log off, when the app was hanging or otherwise 'acting up'
It probably had more uses, but that would take a mainframe user to answer...
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------------------------------
From: Matt Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: helping the Third World
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:56:05 -0500
Can I ask why any of this is showing up in comp.os.linux.misc? Or
comp.os.linux.advocacy? Or gnu.misc.discuss? What does it have to do with any of
it?
TheFreedomFighter wrote:
> Dick Klutz wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > Jim Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >On 21 Jul 1999 13:56:17 GMT,
> > >You would seem to have a computer, (unless you are borrowing one) which
> > >makes you rich compared to 3/4ths of the world, so you will be sending most of
> > >your money to deserving families in the 3rd world, yes?
> >
> > The problems in the Third World are all caused by overpopulation,
> > inequality of wealth within the Third World nations, and exploitation
> > by First World capitalists/governments. How would sending over a few
> > thousand dollars change anything? It wouldn't, and that's one reason
> > why only sentimental fools bother.
>
> So this is your answer to the question "Are you sharing YOUR wealth?"
> After all this time, whining and crying about how everyone should have
> the same "wealth", we find out that you won't share your "wealth" with
> someone less fortunate than yourself. Does the word "HYPOCRITE" mean
> anything to you?
>
> >
> > Those "well, why don't you change the world yourself" responses are
> > sure signs of a witless cretin.
>
> Or in plain english, "I'm a HYPOCRITE so I don't bother following my
> own advice!"
>
> --
> Nonnaho
--
"So Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
-- Dark Helmet (Rick Moranis), "Spaceballs"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lew Pitcher)
Subject: Re: Superuser
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:20:09 GMT
AFAIK, Linux doesn't yet support "capabilities" or ACLs, thus there is no such thing
as "Administration" capabilities. You are either root or you are not root. Perhaps the
closest thing you could do is create a non-root user in root's group, such that the
group permissions and ownerships apply.
On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:09:40 +0100, Darren S Paxton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>How do I set up a user account with Administration capabilities. I would
>like to get one set up due to the obvious dangers of running as root,
>and would rather be able to run an SU account on a 'normal' user
>
>Thanx
>
>Darren
Lew Pitcher
System Consultant, Integration Solutions Architecture
Toronto Dominion Bank
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
(Opinions expressed are my own, not my employer's.)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Raper)
Subject: Which Multi-port serial for Linux 2.2?
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:51:02 GMT
Hi
I need to find an multi-port, serial expansion solution for my Linux
box. The box must be able to run at least 16 serial ports. On SCO
machines I have always used Specialix SI-XIO but I am having a devil
of a job finding drivers and getting them to work. Is there a
'standard' brand that Cladera 2.2 Linux will run with the minimum of
hassle?
Many thanks
Chris R.
------------------------------
From: David Mcilroy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What I think of linux.
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:37:19 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18.
Trying it, liking it, keeping it.
Going to MIT and dual-booting.
I have a lot of friends who have also removed the devil from their PCs.
David
------------------------------
From: coffee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Real player G2 beta for linux
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 01:18:20 -0400
Leonard Evens wrote:
>
> Knut J Bjuland wrote:
> >
> > Where can I get Realplayer G2 beta for linux. I tried
> > http://proforma.real.com/mario/player/player.html for the download. but
> > it seems only possible to get realplayer 5.0 there.
> Try
> www.real.com/products/player/linux.html
> --
>
> Leonard Evens [EMAIL PROTECTED] 847-491-5537
> Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208
It seems to me that at one time I did pick it up from there. They must
have changed it.
Sorry for the bad link.
coffee
--
Newbie Problems? Visit www.indy.net/~coffee for help
coffee at indy dot net * ICQ 1614986
Kokomo, Indiana, USA
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Kulisz)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: helping the Third World
Date: 30 Jul 1999 17:21:04 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Noah Roberts (jik-) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Kulisz) writes:
>> Those "well, why don't you change the world yourself" responses are
>> sure signs of a witless cretin.
>
>You do your part....noone can expect any more or less.
The only way to actually do anything is to work collectively. Yet
selfish cretins opposed to redistribution keep asking socialists
and left-wingers "Why don't you change the world all by yourself?"
so in fact they *do* expect others to do the blatantly impossible
before they stop being selfish assholes.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lucius Chiaraviglio)
Subject: Boot sector/SCSI driver viruses and CD AutoRun (was Re: Linux and Viruses -
Not the same old question)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:05:17 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Robert Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Burrow),
> In a message on 6 Jul 1999 03:06:28 GMT, wrote :
>WB> On 5 Jul 1999 21:36:14 GMT,
>WB> Cameron L. Spitzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>WB> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jiim McIntyre wrote:
>WB> >The best example of this automatic execution is MS-DOS' and MacOS'
>WB> >way of finding out how a floppy was formatted. The floppy disks in
>WB> >common use today may be formatted several different ways, and the
>WB> >OS has to find out which way any particular floppy was formatted
>WB> >before they can read the directory on the floppy. They do it by
>WB> >executing a tiny program found on the very first sector of the floppy!
>WB>
>WB> I suspect you mean Windows9x where you say MSDOS. MSDOS has never
>WB> executed code on the floppy to find out what the floppy is.
>
>I think Win 3.11 did something like this, but Win9x dropped it because
>of 'boot sector' virus which were rampant at one time.
To the best of my knowledge, no DOS or Windows executed any
code on a floppy to determine its format. Boot sector viruses worked
by inserting themselves into or substituting themselves for the
program automatically run on a disk when it is used to boot the
system: for a floppy, the boot sector; for a hard disk, the boot
sector of a partition and/or the master boot record of the whole hard
disk. Note that the "NON-SYSTEM DISK . . ." error message printed
when you attempt to boot off a non-bootable floppy is actually
printed by such a program, and thus such floppies are infectable.
Note that the above happens before the operating system is
loaded. Therefore, the virus is loaded into memory, running,
spreading itself, and doing its other dirty work BEFORE Linux or
any other operating system -- or for that matter an anti-virus
program -- has a chance to start using its security. Therefore,
even if such viruses are incapable of loading under Linux, they
are still of concern to anyone running Linux on the same hardware
platform as the viruses were written for (in most cases, x86, but
I could see the same thing being a significant issue for 68040 and
PowerPC users).
> Win9x and WinNT
>do have a potiental contender to resurrect the 'boot sector': AUTORUN.INF
>on CD's. Now that CDRs are cheap and plentiful, it is only a matter of
>time for some bored little boy to burn a CD with something totally nasty
>in in AUTORUN.INF...
A Trojan CD-R originating as such probably would not get very
far, but imagine a combination executable infector and boot/MBR
infector (such things do exist) infecting the computers of the company
which duplicates CD's for commercial distribution. Therefore, I
always turn off CD AutoRun/AutoPlay, but Windows 95/98 and MacOS 8.x
(which has the same thing!) make turning this off rather unintuitive
(and in the case of Windows, also unreliable), and Windows NT 4.0
makes it positively excruciating to turn this off: it defaults to ON,
must be turned off on a PER-USER basis, can only be turned off by the
user who is logged on at the moment, and can only be turned off if the
user has administrative privileges! -- at least, this is what I have
been able to determine so far.
One detail: AUTORUN.INF does not contain executable code,
but it does have the ability to specify automatic execution of a
program (usually, but not always, named AUTORUN.EXE). The equivalent
thing under MacOS is named something else, but I can't remember what
(and the MacOS AutoPlay option is set in the QuickTime control panel,
of all things).
Put in my vote AGAINST such a horror ever being implemented
in Linux or any desktop environment (including Windows and Mac
emulators/executors) ever ported to it. I don't mind porting good
ideas (such things do exist) from these operating systems to Linux
and/or its desktop environments, but CD AutoPlay is NOT a good idea
(and making it the default behavior is extremely bad). Maybe audio CD
AutoPlay is safe, but even most real CD players don't start playing a
disk you put into them until you press the Play button.
>WB> I doubt that MacOS does this either, though it will certainly
>WB> automatically execute things from the floppy.
>
>Only if it is a *boot* floppy being used to boot up the system.
>Random, foreign boot floppies can trash *any* system. MacOS's file
>system has a special 'finder info' 'file' of each directory. This
>'file' contains the directory/folder's visual 'state': open/closed,
>size/location of the window, view style (large icons, small icons,
>sorted by name, date, size, type, etc.). Same for CD-ROMs.
Actually, although MacOS (to the best of my knowledge) does
not need to execute code on a floppy upon insertion to determine what
format it is in, it CAN be tricked into doing so anyway. The WDEF
virus was the first of these; MDEF and/or CDEF (I forgot which) came
later. MacOS 7.0 fixed the bug that allowed WDEF to work, but I am
not sure whether it fixed it so that the other viruses of this type
are also no longer able to work.
In addition, on other types of media, MacOS needs to load a
SCSI driver (not sure if this applies to IDE hard disks, but wouldn't
be surprised if it does) for the media and drive before it will mount
the media (Microsoft isn't the only company to come out with brain-
dead ideas). I haven't yet heard of a virus being written to spread
this way, but I have read about system crashes/lockups due to
insertion of removable media containing a driver incompatible with
another such driver already running on the system. (I read about this
a few years ago in a MacWorld or MacUser review about removable media
disks, when SyQuest 88 Mbyte cartridges and drives were fairly new --
some OEM drives based upon this "standard" were egregious offenders.
I have also had MacOS users tell me of similar crashes occurring when
connecting a Mac to hard disks with incompatible SCSI drivers.)
To get this back to Linux, what does LinuxPPC do with Mac
media and SCSI drivers? Ignore them? (Never could figure out why
MacOS needed these excrescences anyway.) Or does it have to run them
in order to be able to make use of the media, like MacOS does? (Any
operating system which uses this "feature" is going to be subject to
the same bugs and potential viruses that MacOS is.) I could
understand having to use the one on the boot media if it also
functions analogously to a PC MBR (not sure if it does), but having to
use another one for each media (especially removable media) is a
sure security hole (and demonstrated bug incubator).
(Maybe I should be posting this to the LinuxPPC newsgroup, but
I didn't even figure out that I should be reading that newsgroup until
I am in the middle of a vacation and away from access to my new news
server, and not about to try to pull my hair out trying to pull
messages or groups from my old one.)
>All systems check the floppy / CD-ROM / Zip / Jaz / etc. format by
>looking at the info recorded in the proper places for these devices --
>sector 0 on the floppy, the partition table on disks (including Zip &
>Jaz), and the track TOC on CD-ROMs. There is no need for *any* O/S to
>'execute' any code on removable media, unless and until the *operator*
>requests it.
They shouldn't need to, but some of them do -- see above about
CD AutoRun and Mac SCSI drivers, and about the MacOS bug(s) that
allowed WDEF and similar "floppy AutoRun" viruses to work.
> Presumably, the operator knows what he or she is doing at
>that point (we hope) -- eg a virus scan of some sort has been run
>(Norten, et. al. for MS-* and MacOS, a good eyeballing under Linux/UNIX).
Er . . . Excuse me. My most humble apologies in advance, but
I can't read binary very well. How am I supposed to give boot sector
code (let alone any larger binary) "a good eyeballing" reliably?
>WB> These things are just too easily specified to bother putting code to do
>WB> something similar.
That's what I would have thought, but for some brain-dead
reason, Apple did it anyway -- not for floppies (er, I mean "not on
purpose for floppies"), but for other media types.
Lucius Chiaraviglio | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
========
To reply to this message, remove the "not at" characters from in front of the
abbreviation of the company name (Advanced CMP Products, Inc.). If you are
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Note: I am trying a new news server -- it seems to work well, but it has a
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reply unless you send it by e-mail in addition to posting it.
------------------------------
From: David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: SB PCI 128 Config
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:01:00 -0700
I just got a new PCI 128 card for my machine but I'm not sure which
driver I should use. I left the kernel compiled with the old AWE64 card
I had to see if that would work to no avail. The linux hardware
compatibility howto says it's supported but how do I get it working?
Please help.
P.S. I'm using SuSE 6.1 with kernel 2.2.10
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin Collins)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Magic SysRq (was Re: Linux has finally crashed)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:05:37 GMT
On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:05:13 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Philip W.
Darnowsky) wrote:
>This does sound pretty cool, but what I wanted to know was if anyone knew
>what the *original* use of SysRq was and how it got onto the keyboard on
>the first place.
I believe it comes from old mainframe terminals though it's exact use
I don't know.
Martin
_________________________________________________________________
We see here a curious instance of that frequent mental phenomenon
:- the precise inversion of the truth by a superficial view.
Benjamin R. Tucker 1899
------------------------------
From: Dan Bizuneh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: RH 6.0 and Iomega PP zip driver
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:53:49 -0600
During the installation of RH 5.2 a while back, I chose Iomega PP zip
drive from the scsi list, redhat recognized my parallel port zip drive
and everything went well. But when I try to upgrade to RH 6.0, redhat
was unable to auto probe my parallel port zip drive. Does anyone know
how I can make my parallel port zip drive work on RH 6.0?
Thanks
Dan Bizuneh
------------------------------
From: Daniel Forester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Red Hat 6.0 and passwd command
Date: 30 Jul 1999 18:00:49 GMT
Lindoze 2000 was talking... AGAIN...
: how the heck do you use adduser/useradd properly?
Try man useradd. It's pretty much, as root,
$useradd [options] [username]
Some options I often use are the -G (that's from memory; might be wrong),
to specify a Group name, and such. I recommend Linux in a Nutshell, an
O'Reilly book. ;-)
--
Daniel E. Forester
Georgia Institute of Technology
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte061f/
Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Forester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Superuser
Date: 30 Jul 1999 18:04:12 GMT
Lew Pitcher was talking... AGAIN...
: AFAIK, Linux doesn't yet support "capabilities" or ACLs, thus there is no such thing
: as "Administration" capabilities. You are either root or you are not root. Perhaps
:the
: closest thing you could do is create a non-root user in root's group, such that the
: group permissions and ownerships apply.
That, or change the ownership of some things (I ran into something like
this; off of another drive I mounted; I wanted to be able to write to it.
chgrp). What I myself do is just
$ su
whenever I need to do some "administrativia". ;-)
--
Daniel E. Forester
Georgia Institute of Technology
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte061f/
"All you need is a computer, and a good-payin' job."
--Eric Hollins, Tech student, on life
------------------------------
From: "Tom Emerson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Magic SysRq (was Re: Linux has finally crashed)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:16:12 -0700
TurkBear wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin Collins) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:05:13 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Philip W.
>>Darnowsky) wrote:
>>
>>>This does sound pretty cool, but what I wanted to know was if anyone knew
>>>what the *original* use of SysRq was and how it got onto the keyboard on
>>>the first place.
>>
>>I believe it comes from old mainframe terminals though it's exact use
>>I don't know.
>>
>
>Yes, it was used when connected to a mainframe terminal session and could
be
>used as an 'interrupt' type command that would allow you to issue system
>commands - like log off, when the app was hanging or otherwise 'acting up'
>
>It probably had more uses, but that would take a mainframe user to
answer...
And, in particular, an IBM mainframer at that -- I work with HP's, and by a
strange twist-of-fate, actually found out about this "key" on IBM 327x
terminals -- our system has to talk to a couple of IBM's for one application
we service, but all the "talking" is done programmatically, so we don't even
have an IBM terminal. Other details of the story include the fact the
original programmer of this system has since passed away, yadda yadda yadda,
and now we're looking at upgrading the OS on our HP to be Y2k compliant, and
we know for a fact the SNA communication subsystem has changed.
To make the long story above short, I found out that when our application
makes the initial connection, it isn't really connected to "the mainframe",
but rather to the "logical terminal controller" [or whatever IBM calls it];
to "get the system's attention" and actually start a session, a user would
press the SYS REQ key on a real IBM terminal. (our program simply sends the
relavent key information "as if" a user pressed the key...) Once inside the
application on the mainframe, pressing the SYS REQ key again could do a
variaty of things, including returning to the initial "unconnected/un-owned"
screen...
------------------------------
From: OrangeDino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Linux has finally crashed
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 02:44:11 -0400
Have anyone promise you and telling you an OS would not be crashed? Have anyone
tried you challenge M$ for their OS crashed?
De Messemaeker Johan wrote:
> Jon Skeet wrote:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > > > Since this can happen due to so many reasons (power outage, power supply
> > > > failure, accidentally bumping the reset button, an OS crash, etc) is
> > > > there any way to avoid this?
> > >
> > > No real solution (besides journalling files systems with lower
> > > performance) seems possible here.
> >
> > Isn't there some new file system on the horizon using B-trees which is
> > journalling and yet faster than ext2fs?
>
> Where can i find more info ?
------------------------------
From: fIPS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: SB PCI 128 Config
Date: 30 Jul 1999 18:31:51 GMT
In comp.os.linux.hardware David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just got a new PCI 128 card for my machine but I'm not sure which
> driver I should use. I left the kernel compiled with the old AWE64 card
> I had to see if that would work to no avail. The linux hardware
> compatibility howto says it's supported but how do I get it working?
> Please help.
Use the ES1370 or ES1371 sounddriver, depending on what chip is mounted
on your board. You'll find them in the sound-section of your
kernel-configuration. You've only to check sound-support and the
ES1370 or ES1371 that's all.
Greetings,
fIPS
------------------------------
From: Miguel Rodriguez Artacho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: RH 6.0 and Iomega PP zip driver
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:46:09 +0200
DQpJdCB3b3JrcyBpZiB5b3UgbG9hZCB0aGUgbW9kdWxlDQoNCmluc21vZCBwcGENCg0KYW5k
IHRoZW4gbW91bnQgdGhlIGRldmljZQ0KDQptb3VudCAtdCBtc2RvcyAvZGV2L3NkYTEgL21u
dA0KDQpvcg0KDQptb3VudCAtdCBtc2RvcyAvZGV2L3NkYTQgL21udA0KDQpNaWd1ZWwgUi4N
Ck1hZHJpZA0K
------------------------------
From: TheFreedomFighter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: helping the Third World
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:03:21 -0700
Dick Klutz wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Jim Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >On 21 Jul 1999 13:56:17 GMT,
> >You would seem to have a computer, (unless you are borrowing one) which
> >makes you rich compared to 3/4ths of the world, so you will be sending most of
> >your money to deserving families in the 3rd world, yes?
>
> The problems in the Third World are all caused by overpopulation,
> inequality of wealth within the Third World nations, and exploitation
> by First World capitalists/governments. How would sending over a few
> thousand dollars change anything? It wouldn't, and that's one reason
> why only sentimental fools bother.
So this is your answer to the question "Are you sharing YOUR wealth?"
After all this time, whining and crying about how everyone should have
the same "wealth", we find out that you won't share your "wealth" with
someone less fortunate than yourself. Does the word "HYPOCRITE" mean
anything to you?
>
> Those "well, why don't you change the world yourself" responses are
> sure signs of a witless cretin.
Or in plain english, "I'm a HYPOCRITE so I don't bother following my
own advice!"
--
Nonnaho
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
