Linux-Misc Digest #241, Volume #21 Sun, 1 Aug 99 10:13:15 EDT
Contents:
Re: IDE vs scsi? (Stefan Ehlen)
tar question (Bob Koss)
Re: IDE vs scsi? (Richard Steiner)
Re: CIA assassinations (Anthony Ord)
Re: IDE vs scsi? (coffee)
Re: tar question ("R.K.Aa")
Re: What I think of linux. (Bev)
Re: RAID1 Questions (Jon Bloom)
Re: Lilo, I just erased it and I want it back!!! ("Spotillius Maximus aka \"Spot\"")
Re: IDE vs scsi? (coffee)
Q: Linux Disk Administrator program wanted.... (Jack Snodgrass)
IDE I/O errors in newer 2.2.x kernels ?! (Juergen Hammelmann)
Re: Numbering Xterms? (Falk Hueffner)
Re: limits of ext2 filesystem (Falk Hueffner)
Re: IDE vs scsi? (Rod Smith)
Re: Linux reference OR bOOK (Rod Smith)
how to install c code source? (Eric)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ehlen)
Subject: Re: IDE vs scsi?
Date: 1 Aug 1999 10:39:25 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
coffee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Duy D." wrote:
>>
>> I'm considering to buy a scsi disk to install Linux on. When i do
>> hdparm -t /dev/hda on my ide disk, it reads about 15 mb/s most of the
>> time. Can somebody give me a number on the fastest scsi disk? Thanks.
>
> Well, My scsi quantim says about 40mb/s.
>
> But there are more advantages than just speed. With Scsi you can do
> multiple read/writes. Not with ide though. Plus, YOu can chain up to 7
> devices per controller.
>
> Best to go scsi.
The fastest SCSI and the fastest EIDE drives are really close together.
C'T, a german magazine which is known for good (real life) benchmarking,
tests nearly all available drives on the market. In 9/99, there were 12
drives testet. Fastest drive was the IBM DRVS-18V Ultrastar 18 ZX (17.5 GB,
U2W-SCSI), mean transfer rate 11.7 MB/sec. Fastest EIDE drive was IBM
DJNA-371350 Deskstar 22 GXP (13GB), mean transfer rate 10.8 MB/sec - that's
around 8 percent slower.
Since IDE uses busmaster DMA, there is is no noticable speed gap at all.
The only difference one really sees is the price, SCSI is nearly twice as
expensive (this applies to Germany. I doubt it's much different in the
rest of the world). Example:
IBM DJNA 9,1GB E-IDE, Ultra-DMA, 7200U/min 359.00 DM
IBM DDRS 9100MB, UW/U2W-SCSI, 7200U/min 652.00 DM
You have to take the fast and therefore expensive controller into account,
too: Here it costs at least 432.00 DM. That's three times the price of the
EIDE solution for 8 percent more speed!!
Don't take me wrong, SCSI is surely fine, but there must be really, really
good reasons before it pays to switch to SCSI.
What I'm using is EIDE for hard disks and CDRom and additionally a cheap
and lame Fast-SCSI controller for my streamer (and it would be fast enough for
e.g. a CD burner :-) )
As I read yesterday, Kernel 2.4 will support up to 8 EiDE devices
CU
Stefan
------------------------------
From: Bob Koss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: tar question
Date: 01 Aug 1999 07:13:05 -0400
I want to make a tar file of my home directory, but I wish to exclude
the subdirectory ~/Office51. How do I do that?
I must have tried every permutation of -X and --exclude options, but
the subdirectory always gets included.
--
Robert Koss, Ph.D. | Object Mentor, Inc. | Tel: (800) 338-6716
Senior Consultant | 14619 N Somerset Cr | Fax: (847) 918-1023
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Green Oaks IL 60048 | www.objectmentor.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Steiner)
Subject: Re: IDE vs scsi?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 05:42:09 -0500
Here in comp.os.linux.misc, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ehlen)
spake unto us, saying:
>The fastest SCSI and the fastest EIDE drives are really close together.
How can this be when the fastest commonly available SCSI drives are all
usually 10000rpm drives and the fastest commonly available EIDE drives
are only 7200?
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Bloomington, MN
OS/2 + Linux + BeOS + FreeBSD + Solaris + WinNT4 + Win95 + DOS
+ VMWare + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
Burma Shave.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Anthony Ord)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: CIA assassinations
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 11:49:26 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>Anthony Ord wrote:
<snip>
>> Try the Japanese Yen. Hint: who finances your budget
>> deficit?
>
>The Asian economy has been going down the toilet lately while our
>economy is strong.
Who owns your economy? For example, name 3 Hollywood studios not owned by
the Japanese.
Actually, the Japanese economy is a concern to the US government because
without their money, you cannot finance your budget deficit. This would
mean your government would only be able to spend what they earned. Name
one Western government that doesn't break out in a cold sweat at that
thought...
Regards
Anthony
------------------------------
From: coffee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IDE vs scsi?
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 06:48:05 -0400
Richard Steiner wrote:
>
> Here in comp.os.linux.misc, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ehlen)
> spake unto us, saying:
>
> >The fastest SCSI and the fastest EIDE drives are really close together.
>
> How can this be when the fastest commonly available SCSI drives are all
> usually 10000rpm drives and the fastest commonly available EIDE drives
> are only 7200?
>
> --
> -Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Bloomington, MN
> OS/2 + Linux + BeOS + FreeBSD + Solaris + WinNT4 + Win95 + DOS
> + VMWare + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
> Burma Shave.
I dont think anyone can convince me that ide is as fast or faster then
scsi. Usually ide qoutes burst speed. This means ide writes/reads in
bursts. Scsi has a sustained speed.
Scsi is quite a bit faster and can perform multiple read/writes where
ide cannot and thus is quite a bit slower.
Im no expert in scsi but on my system with a mylex 40mb/sec controller
and a good scsi drive I can see a world of difference between scsi and
ide. I would never ever buy ide again after switching to scsi.
Here in the states my controller card cost me 120 bucks and my drive
(4.2 gig scsi) cost about 230 bucks.
Scsi is quite a bit faster than ide by nature.
--
Newbie Problems? Visit www.indy.net/~coffee for help
coffee at indy dot net * ICQ 1614986
Kokomo, Indiana, USA
------------------------------
From: "R.K.Aa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: tar question
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 13:50:43 +0200
Bob Koss wrote:
>
> I want to make a tar file of my home directory, but I wish to exclude
> the subdirectory ~/Office51. How do I do that?
>
> I must have tried every permutation of -X and --exclude options, but
> the subdirectory always gets included.
Not sure, but have you tried temporarily setting that directory without
read access for owner? (and everybody else)
K.
--
-- To E-mail, delete "spam" --
------------------------------
From: Bev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.linux.sux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I think of linux.
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 17:57:37 -0700
> In comp.os.linux.misc alann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You're right, somewhat. I would be curious as to the average age of Linux
> > users. I'm 34.
57. First one I personally used was some kind of card punch writing a
vacation accrual program in Fortran (shit, SOMEBODY has to be a business
admin major!) in 1978 to run on a Univac 1108. Not pleasant. Then a
Compal Poly-88 machine, a TRS-80 and a Morrow somethingorother, all under
CP/M. Original IBM PC with MSDOS, then an AT and an NEC APC (with the 8"
disks) (still MSDOS). Ultimately used win3.1 in 93 or so for a while,
when necessary, and then win95, and then Slackware 3.4 a year and a half ago
and Suse 6.1 a few weeks ago.
I owe it all to my husband, who REALLY knows what he's doing!
--
Cheers,
Bev
=================================================
It's not the speed that kills, it's the stopping.
------------------------------
From: Jon Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: RAID1 Questions
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 07:25:48 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Now, I cant get RAID to start. I setup the raidtab file, and fdisked
> the two other hard drives just as my root drive is. After which, I ran
> mkraid /dev/md0. It first tells me that it sees an ext2 filesystem on
> the partition, but that is not so since I just fdisked and didn't
> format the partitions. To solve this I used the -really-force flag.
> It then creates the raid superblocks on both drives and then says
> mkraid aborted. It never initializes the RAID...
I don't recall getting such an error (though my memory is notoriously
bad). Is that all it says? No indication of why it's aborting? What
happens if you load the raid1 module and do a cat /proc/mdstat?
> Did you run into this problem? Also, I know this is later on, but what
> is the best way to copy the entire contents of my root drive to the new
> postion? I don't want to miss anything..
I just booted up a separate partition (I generally configure a small
"emergency" partition on my systems), mounted the old and new (RAID)
root partitions and did a cp -a of one to the other.
Jon
--
Jon Bloom, KE3Z
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electronic Publications Manager (Software, CD-ROMs and Web site)
------------------------------
From: "Spotillius Maximus aka \"Spot\"" <*****@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Lilo, I just erased it and I want it back!!!
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 07:51:20 -0400
Thanks Cameron, I will try it and let you know how it works. I forgot to
mention that I was using RedHat 6.0.
This accident happened partly due to my mind going into a semi-comatose
state watching NT4 rebooting while I was installing it. Thank God for
Linux, you don't have all that rebooting when you add or change something.
Ed
Cameron L. Spitzer wrote in message ...
>In article <7o0bof$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Spotillius Maximus aka
\"Spot\" wrote:
>>Well, I did something stupid, I accidentally erased Lilo from my main SCSI
>>drive when I was trying to erase Lilo on another removable drive. I tried
>>booting from my floppy with the boot disk with no luck.
>
>There are many different boot disks. The installation floppies that
>come with Red Hat, SuSE, Debian, and Slackware will, by default,
>boot into a little ramdisk-resident mini-Linux system, where you can
>get a shell (by exploring the menus in the install program, or
>switching to another console with Alt-F2) and run the command
>
> fdisk -l
>
------------------------------
From: coffee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IDE vs scsi?
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 07:01:21 -0400
Well, I wanted to find the facts so that everyone knows the real scoop
on scsi vs ide here.
Read this link!
http://thef-nym.sci.kun.nl/~pieterh/eide-vs-scsi.html
This link will explain in more detail why scsi is so much better than an
ide drive.
--
Newbie Problems? Visit www.indy.net/~coffee for help
coffee at indy dot net * ICQ 1614986
Kokomo, Indiana, USA
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jack Snodgrass)
Subject: Q: Linux Disk Administrator program wanted....
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 07:29:23 -0500
I'm looking for a 'Disk Administrator' type program for Linux. DiskDruid
would be ok.... but I can't find that program after Linux is installed.
I need something that will show me ( graphically would be nice ) ALL
of the harddrives attached to the system and what their existing
configuration is. I can find out what /dev/hd* and /dev/sd* devices
I have and run fdisk on each device, but there is nothing that
shows me this in one program. I've got a lot of drives and finding
out what drives are full or underutilized is a pain.
Thanks.
--
jack - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.cybermail.net
ICQ# 27979473 <img src="http://logos.cybermail.net/cybercool.gif">
------------------------------
From: Juergen Hammelmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,linux.dev.kernel
Subject: IDE I/O errors in newer 2.2.x kernels ?!
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 14:40:18 +0200
Hello!
I need help to solve a driver problem for older and/or slower IDE/ATAPI
drives:
I have a Quantum Bigfoot 2.5 GB harddisk: this drive has I/O errors
since I use kernels
2.2.5 or newer!
Another PC which has RedHat 6.0 and kernel 2.2.5-22 shows I/O-errors
with an atapi-zip-drive.
Every time larger files are written to the zip drive, there are
I/O-errors, and the files get corrupted!
With Windows 95 running the zip-drive shows no errors!
Could it be, that there are changes in the timings of the ide-driver in
the kernel 2.2.x, so
older/slower drives cannot deal with?
Is this a known problem, especially to Alan Cox?!
Ciao, J�rgen Hammelmann
--
,,,
/'^'\
( o o )
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo----------------------------------------------------------
EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Address: Juergen Hammelmann,
Bruehlstr. 6, 71157 Hildrizhausen, Germany
.oooO Phone: + 49-7034-61578
( ) Oooo. Fax: + 49-7034-652189
---\ (----( )-----------------------------------------------------------
\_) ) /
(_/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Falk Hueffner)
Subject: Re: Numbering Xterms?
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 12:53:33 GMT
On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:02:10 -0700, Warren Bell
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>If anyone knows how to stript the 'ttyp' out of there it would be
>perfect.
${TTY##/dev/ttyp}
--
Falk Hueffner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Falk Hueffner)
Subject: Re: limits of ext2 filesystem
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 12:53:39 GMT
On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:52:49 +0200, Carol Bosshart - KVG Internet
Services <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Does anybody know if it is possible to build an ext2-partition
>with a size of 35 Gig. ?
You might have to increase the block size for that, check the manual.
>On this partition I need a directory with about 50000 files in it.
>
>Does ext2 support this?
Yes, but it will be very slow, since directory access time is linear
with the number of files.
Falk
--
Falk Hueffner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rod Smith)
Subject: Re: IDE vs scsi?
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 13:05:29 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <7o184t$7s4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ehlen) writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> coffee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> The fastest SCSI and the fastest EIDE drives are really close together.
> C'T, a german magazine which is known for good (real life) benchmarking,
> tests nearly all available drives on the market. In 9/99, there were 12
> drives testet. Fastest drive was the IBM DRVS-18V Ultrastar 18 ZX (17.5 GB,
> U2W-SCSI), mean transfer rate 11.7 MB/sec. Fastest EIDE drive was IBM
> DJNA-371350 Deskstar 22 GXP (13GB), mean transfer rate 10.8 MB/sec - that's
> around 8 percent slower.
>
> Since IDE uses busmaster DMA, there is is no noticable speed gap at all.
>
> The only difference one really sees is the price, SCSI is nearly twice as
> expensive (this applies to Germany. I doubt it's much different in the
> rest of the world). Example:
>
> IBM DJNA 9,1GB E-IDE, Ultra-DMA, 7200U/min 359.00 DM
> IBM DDRS 9100MB, UW/U2W-SCSI, 7200U/min 652.00 DM
I notice these are both 7200 rpm drives. Since it's not hard to find
SCSI drives that spin at 10,000 rpm, I rather doubt if the SCSI drive, at
least, is really the fastest available. Also, these are both 9GB drives,
and higher-capacity models are readily available for both interfaces.
Bigger drives are often faster than their smaller-capacity cousins, since
they pack more data per platter. (Of course, this does depend on the
specific designs; if the higher-capacity drives just use more platters,
this relationship may not apply.)
>> "Duy D." wrote:
>>
>> But there are more advantages than just speed. With Scsi you can do
>> multiple read/writes. Not with ide though. Plus, YOu can chain up to 7
>> devices per controller.
>>
> As I read yesterday, Kernel 2.4 will support up to 8 EiDE devices
But SCSI supports 7 (or 15, with Wide varieties) devices *PER HOST
ADAPTER,* and hence *PER INTERRUPT.* Since EIDE requires one interrupt
per two devices, that 8-device support will require *FOUR INTERRUPTS!*
Also, SCSI supports filling the capacity of a bus with transfers from
arbitrary devices. So, suppose you've got a 40MB/s UltraWide SCSI bus and
four 10MB/s hard disks. You can use RAID or just plain ordinary transfers
from all drives to get something very close to 40MB/s total throughput.
With four 10GB EIDE drives on two 33MB/s (or even 66MB/s) controllers, the
most you'd get would be 20MB/s, since each bus would be taken over by a
single drive while its doing its transfers.
Overall and IMHO, SCSI still beats EIDE for high-end situations requiring
multiple devices or the best possible disk speed. EIDE is adequate for
low-end situations involving just a single hard disk and one CD-ROM
drive. Add more devices and they start bumping into each other.
--
Rod Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.channel1.com/users/rodsmith
NOTE: Remove the "uce" word from my address to mail me
Author of _Special Edition Using WordPerfect for Linux_, from Que
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rod Smith)
Subject: Re: Linux reference OR bOOK
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 13:14:51 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Posted and mailed]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jim McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Joe Murphy wrote:
>
>> Can any one recommend a book or reference on Linux. Thanks in Advance.
>
> Your best bet for a Linux reference book is the administration book from
> O'Reilly. I'm using the "Using Linux" book from Que, and it's just too basic.
> Even a newbie outgrows this book pretty quickly. I've never heard any
> complaints about the O'Reilly series.
I have. O'Reilly tends to leave their books for years without updating
them, so they lose relevance over time. For instance, the O'Reilly book,
_Linux Network Administrator's Guide_ by Olaf Kirch bears a copyright
date of 1995, but it's still being sold today. It's got a strong
emphasis on UUCP, no information on Samba, nothing on IP masquerading,
etc. That's not to say it's useless; it's still a very good book for the
topics that haven't changed much since 1995. Similar comments apply to
other O'Reilly books -- in general, they're very good when they first
come out, but they fade in relevance as events overtake them. Other
publishers tend to either update or discontinue their computer book
titles more frequently than does O'Reilly.
This may sound like an all-out attack on O'Reilly, but it's not. I
really do have a great deal of respect for O'Reilly titles; it's just
that some of their Linux "classics" are getting quite long in the tooth
and aren't nearly as useful as they were when they first came out.
--
Rod Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.channel1.com/users/rodsmith
NOTE: Remove the "uce" word from my address to mail me
Author of _Special Edition Using WordPerfect for Linux_, from Que
------------------------------
From: Eric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux
Subject: how to install c code source?
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 17:32:22 -0800
Dear RPM expert:
How to istall c scroutce program from redhat's 2nd disk?
is that
rpm -bp file.patch?
i.e. string.h file where is its cource code (ie string.c) how to get it?
thanks your help in advance
eric
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
