Linux-Misc Digest #249, Volume #21 Sun, 1 Aug 99 17:13:10 EDT
Contents:
Linux PPP Client Loopback? ("Gordon D. Anderson")
Re: Marx vs. Nozick (Phillip Lord)
Re: change system mailbox/procmail (Rico Dreier)
netscape and newsgroups (Ramin Sina)
Re: IDE vs scsi? (Stefan Ehlen)
corrupt wtmp (Kevin Bryan)
Re: PPP and Linux (alann)
Re: netscape and newsgroups (Daniel Forester)
Re: POP Mail? (retlaW)
Re: Q: Linux Disk Administrator program wanted.... (Coy A Hile)
Re: ppp probs since kernel upgrade to 2.2.9
Re: boot without fsck? (Randall Parker)
Re: What I think of linux. (The Third Toad)
Re: What I think of linux. (The Third Toad)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Gordon D. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux PPP Client Loopback?
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 17:52:22 GMT
I have a new Linux Slackware installation that seems to be
working well except that I can't dial out and maintain a
connection. I am trying to setup as a client with a single ISP.
After chat dialing, user name, and password routines, my log
shows the follwing lines:
pppd[693]: Serial connection established.
pppd[693]: Using interface ppp0
pppd[693]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyS2
pppd[693]: Serial line is looped back.
pppd[693]: Connection terminated.
pppd[693]: Exit.
I gather that "looped back" is my problem, but I don't know why
it is looped or what to do about it. There was nothing in the
many PPP scripts that I edited about loopback. Nothing in the
FAQs either. What should I look for? Thanks.
Please reply by e-mail as well as posting. Newsgroups are often
not available on this ISP. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Phillip Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Marx vs. Nozick
Date: 01 Aug 1999 19:18:26 +0100
This post is seriously off topic, and I realise that it would
really be better posted elsewhere. However I felt obligated to respond
because of the very serious issues that have been raised. If you arnt
interested then please dont read it, and feel free to kill file me if
you want.
>>>>> "Jerry" == Jerry Lynn Kreps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Jerry> Phillip Lord wrote:
>> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Penney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> writes:
>>
Ashley> I'm not saying that to be horrible, I'm trying to be as
Ashley> clinical as I can, and it's a proven fact that
Ashley> illness/weaknesses can be passed down via the genes. The
Ashley> more a genetically weak person reproduces, the worse the
Ashley> human population becomes.
>> I would have to say here that this argument is total rubbish.
>> There are many reasons why its rubbish, from the difficulties in
>> defining fitness, to the length to time individual breeding has
>> to happend to affect the population.
Jerry> So is passing Politically Correct opinions as scientific
Jerry> fact, Phil. Forget the Marxist theology and do a little
Jerry> research yourself...
Jerry> http://www.hhmi.org/GeneticTrail/
I feel that I have to answer this post because it was
directed at me. I shall try and explain my position in slightly more
detail. I realise that in this case I have touched something which is
deeply personal to you, and will therefore try and answer with as much
sensitivity for this as I can.
My first point is that I was not passing off any form of
politically correct opinion, rather making a statement which I can if
necessary support entirely from the point of view of genetics. I
choose not do this initially for the reasons that I stated, which are
that its reasonably long winded, hard to explain without diagrams,
fairly off topic, and I didnt have the relevant resources to
hand. This may sound like a cop out for which I apologise because its
not meant as such.
Jerry> Many folks inherit, or acquire through mutation, genetic
Jerry> diseases, or pass the trait to offspring who then suffer the
Jerry> consequences. Many couples now choose abortion when faced
Jerry> with the possibility of birthing a malformed child. This has
Jerry> nothing to do with eugenics or politics.
This is of course mostly true. It is heavily related to
politics however. The rights and wrongs of abortion are a heavily
political issue, as Im sure you are aware and have been discussed
backwards and forwards.
This was however not what I was arguing against. The point
that was made was that if individuals who can pass down "bad" genes
breed copiously, over time this would come to affect the entire
poplulation. This is a eugenically argument, and is I think mistaken,
although it appears at first sight highly plausible. There are many
reasons, but I shall content myself with a simple statistic (a rather
approximate one at that. Its the right order of magnitude though). If
you take for instance cystic fibrosis, which is the most common
genetic disease (amoungst white europeans anyway) with about 1 in 20
people being a (asymptomatic) carrier. Until relatively recently CF
was usually lethal before reproduction. Nowadays CF sufferers survive
a lot longer. If you assume that those with CF reproduced perferctly
normally, then it turns out that it would take about 500 years to
increase the incidence from 1 in 20 to, 1 in 19. Of course if those
suffering from CF have no reproductive disadvantage over non-sufferers
then even this small increase would be pretty much irrelevant.
Jerry> FYI, many of the eugenics arguments of the early part of this
Jerry> century were by Socialists wanting to move man toward the
Jerry> "Superman" that socialism promises.
Hmm. There is a degree of truth in this, mainly based around
the activities of Lysenko, and his rather dubious research on frogs
(which was, to not put too fine a point on it, faked). The eugenics
movement however took off pretty much across the political spectrum at
about the time that Mendelian genetics became widely accepted (around
1910). This history of genetics is spattered with this. The Eugenical
Research Office for instance collected family trees which ended up in
the forcible sterilisation of 20,000 people mostly for
"feeblemindedness" in the US. Some of then are still alive. The institue still
exists, although renamed to Cold Spring Harbour, and is now one of the
foremost molecular biology research insitutues in the world. In London
we have the Galton institue at Imperial College. Galton was Darwins
cousin, and was the man who came up with the idea of tracing people by
their finger prints. He was also into measuring the shape of peoples heads,
and, even more bizarrely their buttocks. Negro's it turns out have
very unintelligent buttocks. Shockingly in his, and his families
buttocks Galton saw the hint of genius.
Well the point is that the early history of the science of
genetics is very very dodgy. In many cases is was founded on the
bequests of racists, and bigots. Ultimately this ended in the fires of
aushwitz, and the obscenities of Mengele. I believe personally as
someone who has studied genetics for most of my professional life that
I owe society a great debt for the horrors that were perpretrated in
the name of my science. I feel obligated when I see genetics being
used to support eugenical attitudes that it does not in fact support
to reply. Perhaps I replied too shortly and without making myself
clear.
Jerry> Ashley probably doesn't want socialist to feel their "pain"
Jerry> and push for more taxes to pay for the medical treatment an
Jerry> increasing number of gene-defective folks.
I have already talked about the "increasing number"
argument. Should we treat those who have genetic conditions?
Absolutely. My country has a national health service embattled though
it is. We treat people who catch infectious disease, who are injured
in accidents. Why should genetic conditions be any different. I would
find myself distressed to be in any society that did not show such
elementary care towards its members.
Jerry> With the problems of decreasing resources and exploding
Jerry> populations on this "Life-Boat Earth" he needn't worry.
Well the issue of food, and water is not one of resources.
We are already capable of producing more than enough food to feed the
worlds population. That so many people in the world are starving is not
due to shortage, its a political decision.
Jerry> We only have their track record for the last seventy years,
Jerry> and their current war against the elderly, who must wear
Jerry> "don't euthanize me!" signs when they go to a hospital, to
Jerry> demonstrate that fact.
Im sorry but this is it little more than a slur which Im
rather offended about to be honest. I think that you should judge me
by what I say, and not what you assume that I believe because I would
call my self socialist. I would never make (even metaphorical) war
against the elderly, and I do not know what you are referring to.
On the euthenasia question it is becoming increasingly clear
that the doctors sworn desire to protect life is starting to be
inadequate. We need to accept that death is a part of natural life,
and that those who want it should be allowed to die with dignity, and
as free from suffering as possible. Whilst having this desire the
issue of how to implement this is very very difficult. It must be done
in such a way that people can change their minds, are not pushed into
it for the sake of others convienience. The ideas of "living wills"
are appealing, although I have a few reservations about this. In a
nutshell I think we should be respect the wish to die, whilst always
erring on the side of life, where the wishes are not clear.
Phil
------------------------------
From: Rico Dreier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: change system mailbox/procmail
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 20:35:28 +0200
> Try setting the MAIL environment variable to point to the new
> mailbox.
Now I have it... If the mailbox is called mbox (not mailbox!)
and it is stored in the user's home directory, then Netscape
is able to find it and to read it. This seems to be completely
independent from any settings in procmailrc and the system
variables MAIL, MAILBOX etc.
Regards, Rico
------------------------------
From: Ramin Sina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: netscape and newsgroups
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 14:01:10 -0400
I would like to do all my internet stuff (email, news, web) with
netscape which came with SuSE6.1. I have managed to configure my ppp to
get connected to my ISP. I can access email and web; but when I try to
"Join Discussion Groups..." the window for the list of discussion
groups opens up and I see at the bottom of it that the list is being
downloaded, but none of the discussion groups is ever explicitly shown
in the window. My ISP does not support linux. I have set up the news
server (in the preference menu of netscape) as they have suggested for
Win95. I have no problem with enail and web browsing. Has anyone had a
similar problem? Any advice?
Thanks,
Ramin Sina
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ehlen)
Subject: Re: IDE vs scsi?
Date: 1 Aug 1999 18:32:17 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rod Smith) writes:
> In article <7o184t$7s4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ehlen) writes:
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> coffee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> IBM DJNA 9,1GB E-IDE, Ultra-DMA, 7200U/min 359.00 DM
>> IBM DDRS 9100MB, UW/U2W-SCSI, 7200U/min 652.00 DM
>
> I notice these are both 7200 rpm drives. Since it's not hard to find
> SCSI drives that spin at 10,000 rpm, I rather doubt if the SCSI drive, at
> least, is really the fastest available.
No, of course not! The test I quoted was about some new models and by no
means a complete overview. C'T stopped making huge tests once in a while
because there were too many new drives. Instead, they do many smaller
tests to keep track with the market. So this is only a very small 'window'
and only meant as example, but a representative one with redard to speed
difference.
> Also, these are both 9GB drives,
> and higher-capacity models are readily available for both interfaces.
> Bigger drives are often faster than their smaller-capacity cousins, since
> they pack more data per platter. (Of course, this does depend on the
> specific designs; if the higher-capacity drives just use more platters,
> this relationship may not apply.)
I agree. In very most cases bigger drives are faster, that's the reason why
I chosse two with the same capacity. There are exceptions, like the
DJNA372200 (21GB), which was tested slighly slower than the DJNA371350 (13
GB)
>>> "Duy D." wrote:
>>>
>>> But there are more advantages than just speed. With Scsi you can do
>>> multiple read/writes. Not with ide though. Plus, YOu can chain up to 7
>>> devices per controller.
>>>
>> As I read yesterday, Kernel 2.4 will support up to 8 EiDE devices
>
> But SCSI supports 7 (or 15, with Wide varieties) devices *PER HOST
> ADAPTER,* and hence *PER INTERRUPT.* Since EIDE requires one interrupt
> per two devices, that 8-device support will require *FOUR INTERRUPTS!*
Again, I agree. The need for 4 Interrupts is a big disadvantage, but how
long will this last?
> Also, SCSI supports filling the capacity of a bus with transfers from
> arbitrary devices. So, suppose you've got a 40MB/s UltraWide SCSI bus and
> four 10MB/s hard disks. You can use RAID or just plain ordinary transfers
> from all drives to get something very close to 40MB/s total throughput.
> With four 10GB EIDE drives on two 33MB/s (or even 66MB/s) controllers, the
> most you'd get would be 20MB/s, since each bus would be taken over by a
> single drive while its doing its transfers.
That's right, too, but the initial question was about buying ONE and only
ONE hard drive. So this considerations simply don't apply.
By the way, in your example you're using average transfer values, which is
an idealization far away from 'real life'. The C'T benchmarks try to be as
close to 'real life' as possible, that's why I rely so much on them.
> Overall and IMHO, SCSI still beats EIDE for high-end situations requiring
> multiple devices or the best possible disk speed. EIDE is adequate for
> low-end situations involving just a single hard disk and one CD-ROM
> drive. Add more devices and they start bumping into each other.
That's what I meant when I said that there must be good reasons before it
pays to buy SCSI. Adding a single drive is IMHO NOT a good reason,
concerning the price/perfomance ratio, even if it means that the CDROM and
one hard disk share one interrupt.
CU
Stefan
------------------------------
From: Kevin Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: corrupt wtmp
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 15:08:13 -0400
How do I fix a corrupt wtmp file? It gives me strange things like
people still logged in from before the machine was booted, incorrect who
lists and the like. It got very unhappy with me for mv'ing that one out
of the way and creating another for it to use. Any ideas?
--Kevin
------------------------------
From: alann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: PPP and Linux
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 15:30:07 -0400
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux
On Sun, 01 Aug 1999, Gregor Gregori� wrote:
>I have a problem with PPP. I connect with KPPP on internet and i can't open
>pages in netscape or talk on IRC like computer doesnt know that he is
>connected to internet. Please help.
>
>Thx
>
>Greg
You didn't state what distrib of Linux you are running, but I'm running
Mandrake 6.0 and had the same problem. Another guy in town ( who works on the
ISP I use ) is running RH 6 and had the same problem. Just a shot in the dark
but our problem was VJ Compression. If you are running either of these, call
your ISP and have them check if VJ compression is turned on in your account
settings. Apparently something changed with RH 6 since we never had to do this
before.
Alan
------------------------------
From: Daniel Forester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: netscape and newsgroups
Date: 1 Aug 1999 19:13:25 GMT
In comp.os.linux.misc Ramin Sina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: I would like to do all my internet stuff (email, news, web) with
: netscape which came with SuSE6.1. I have managed to configure my ppp to
: get connected to my ISP. I can access email and web; but when I try to
: "Join Discussion Groups..." the window for the list of discussion
: groups opens up and I see at the bottom of it that the list is being
: downloaded, but none of the discussion groups is ever explicitly shown
: in the window. My ISP does not support linux. I have set up the news
: server (in the preference menu of netscape) as they have suggested for
: Win95. I have no problem with enail and web browsing. Has anyone had a
: similar problem? Any advice?
TIN!
;-)
--
Daniel E. Forester
Georgia Institute of Technology
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte061f/
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets
the cheese.
------------------------------
From: retlaW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.slackware,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: POP Mail?
Date: 1 Aug 1999 19:33:07 GMT
Lindoze 2000 wrote:
>
> anyone know how to tell if POP mail is running ?
>
> then how can I setup some pop client like netscape to read it.
> I have only IP addys, no Public Domain names (no company.com)
> How do you send someone email useing IP addresses?
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] does not work.
>
> --
person@[111.222.333.444] should work!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Coy A Hile)
Subject: Re: Q: Linux Disk Administrator program wanted....
Date: 1 Aug 1999 15:24:49 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jack Snodgrass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm looking for a 'Disk Administrator' type program for Linux. DiskDruid
>would be ok.... but I can't find that program after Linux is installed.
>I need something that will show me ( graphically would be nice ) ALL
>of the harddrives attached to the system and what their existing
>configuration is. I can find out what /dev/hd* and /dev/sd* devices
>I have and run fdisk on each device, but there is nothing that
>shows me this in one program. I've got a lot of drives and finding
>out what drives are full or underutilized is a pain.
>
>
If all you're looking for is a tool to show the relative usage of different
drives as well as what's mounted where, mount (without any options) shows
what's mounted where and df and du show disk usage. RTFM.
Coy
--
Coy Hile
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Theirs not to reason why; theirs but to do...."
Tennyson, "Charge of the Light Brigade"
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: redhat.networking.general,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: ppp probs since kernel upgrade to 2.2.9
Date: 1 Aug 1999 19:30:31 GMT
I previously wrote
> For the last few weeks I have had some problems getting linux on
> the net. It all began when I went to the Redhat site and
> downloaded the latest updates for 5.2. .
>
> My solution after much messing about I decided to recompile the
> kernell with the CDrom and internet in the kernell rather than
> modules and then with access to the redhat cd i was sure all
> would be well.
>
> Anyway since I was recompiling I figured I may as well compile
> for 686 with kernell 2.2.9 while I was at it. I have got the
> modules mainly fixed I think but the upgraded pppd 2.3.7 still
> does not work i was getting error messages concerning missing
> compression modules so with info found on various net sites i
> added the following to conf.modules.
>
> alias ppp compress-21 bsd_comp
> " -26 ppp_deflate
> " -24 ppp_active
> " -1 bsd_comp
> alias ppp0 bsd_comp
>
The problem has now gone away. I had to change my ISP and when i set up
kppp with the new details I was able to get onto the net. If others are
having probs after a kernel i recommend they go back to the beginning with
their ppp setup. My kppp setup did previously work under kernel 2.037 and
a previous version of ppp but it did not work under 2.2.9 kernel with
2.3.8 ppp.
> I am still getting the following in /var/log/messages
>
> no module symbols loaded
> cannot locatte module char-major-14
> " nls_iso8859-1
yep still getting these errors I dont know how important they are.
> Regards
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> ------------------ Posted via SearchLinux ------------------
> http://www.searchlinux.com
================== Posted via SearchLinux ==================
http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randall Parker)
Subject: Re: boot without fsck?
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 13:27:18 -0700
In article <IFwn3.215$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> I've never tried this before but I think it should work. Here's my idea.
> First of all, why have an HD at all? Have a boot disk with kernel and
> ramdisk image on it (kinda like what you would use to install linux). The
> ramdisk image is loaded from the floppy and is rw in memory. I'm not sure
> what kind of programs you are using but a simple command line mp3 player
> (mpg123, etc) should fit on the disk with no problems. If not you could just
> mount a hd read-only and put other stuff of it, or better yet, just run 'em
> off the CD.
If you mount a hard drive read-only then could you put tmp and other
things that need to be writeable on a different partition?
What would be clever would be to make all the temporary writeable files
(eg swap file) go on a partition that was writeable. Then put the OS on a
read only partition. Then have the OS on boot-up go and even reformat the
writeable partition if it had gotten corrupted.
Could one even use this sort of strategy on a normal Linux server that
you needed to have always be rebootable after an OS crash or power
failure.
> This isn't very detailed but it's an idea. See the lilo and
> kernel docs for more info on ramdisks. You might also want to take a look at
> the slackware boot/root disks to see an example of a minimal root
> filesystem.
>
> -Brian Alliet
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: The Third Toad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.linux.sux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I think of linux.
Date: 1 Aug 1999 19:30:14 GMT
>>>I punched my first deck of cards for an IBM 1602 (1620??) in 1968.
>>>That's not a PC - it was a mainframe with lots of blinking lights
>>>and a typewriter console. I miss those blinking lights.
>
>> How quaint! ;)
>
>You could always built a small LED array and plug it into your
>parallel port to relive the old days...
>
>:)
Or buy an external modem (do they make them anymore?). What the hell are
all the lights on those for, anyways? They have like 8! Internals have zero
and work fine.
Evan Bender
------------------------------
From: The Third Toad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.linux.sux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I think of linux.
Date: 1 Aug 1999 19:25:25 GMT
I'm 17 years old and I've been using computers my whole life. My mom
programmed with punchcards back in the day, and we've had a computer around
the house since I can remember. I learned to use DOS on a PC XT when I was
maybe 8? This was when virtually no-one had computers at home and the
internet didn't even exist (seems like a LONG time ago...). So I used Dos
and didn't like windows very much when it first came out. And I used
windows 3.1 and didn't like windows 95 when it came out. In my perception,
things have just been going way downhill. Sure, PC's are 50 zillion times
faster now, but do you get things done any faster or better? Anyone
remember DOS Wordperfect, before WYSIWYG, when it had a blue background and
you used the F-keys to save, print, etc. It worked!
Anways, last year, after using Windoze 95 for three years, with
constant crashes, freezes, conflicts, and what have you, I finally got
ahold of a computer of my own to play with and immediately decided to find
a better OS. After a bit of searching, Linux seemed to be the best option.
So I got a cheap Redhat CDrom and went for it. And I haven't regretted it.
I'm still figuring things out (I admit, I'm writing this from my family's
windows PC -- I haven't gotten the modem working yet in linux), but
everything I've learned and done seems to make twice as much sense under
linux than windows. It doesn't sheild you from what's going on like windows
does. It's new and constantly evolving.
However, I agree with other posters who have said Linux, at least as
we know it, will never make it to the masses. Kids like me
may be forming a larger part of the computer market, but my generation will
not be tremendously more computer literate than yours. I'm a computer nerd
(well, a closet computer nerd. don't tell my friends!) because I was stuck
with DOS when I started, which required a bit of know-how. Not just point
and click. But most "normal" people, including the kids, just WANT point
and click. Unfortunately, most of the world isn't blessed with infinite
patience for dealing with technical idiosynchracies (sp?), just like not
everyone wants to do their own mechanic work on their car (but that's fun
too. my dad was a mechanic when he was younger and still does a lot
himself, and is teaching me, bit by bit. but back to computers...). I think
MacOS, or something like it, is what "normal" people need. It works well
enough, it sheilds you from the guts of the machine, and it works (did I
say that allready?). Not that Mac doesn't have it's share of problems... as
I see it, Apple has crippled themselves by not opening Mac to other
computer makers. But if I needed a new computer to do simple things like
surf the internet and read e-mail and word process (and had the money), I'd
get an iMac, because it seems to me that that is where mass-market
computers should be -- computers are becoming an appliance, and they should
be as easy to use as a toaster. However, give me a couple hours to noodle
with Linux and I'm happy.
Phew! That was a bit more extended than I intended!
I have a few line by line comments:
>>But, for all of those people that think that Linux is the
>>next generation, you are sadly mistaken. The majority of
>>computer users are barely able to use Windows, let alone
>>something as complex as Linux.
>>
Exactly.
>There are a lot of 8 year old's now that are more computer literate than
>some
>50 year olds. My son included.
>
But computer literacy is relative. There's the top level, like I'm sure a
lot of kids can use their favorite games and do word processing and surf
the net all by theirselves (my little sister, for example). But could they
configure a dial-up connection, install a hard drive, resolve hardware
conflicts? Plenty of adults can't, and maybe the percentage of younger
people who can is slightly greater than that of older people, but I
wouldn't count on a new generation full of computer wizards.
>>As the second poster said, Linux was made by geeks for
>>geeks, and unfortunately it will probably always remain
>>so. I have to say that there is NO WAY Linux will ever
>>become mainstream... simply because of the lack of computer
>>savvy demonstrated by over 90% of PC users.
>>
Like I said. They want computer=toaster and something like the Mac, though
not perfect (not even close!) is the direction that is headed in.
>
>Nope, your wrong. Kids now have more computer skills than most "windows"
>users.
>
>I see this now in my local linux user group. A lot of the members are
>"kids"..
>HS'ers, college kids that know thier way around
>linux as much as I *WOULD* like to.. Today's kids at 8,9,10-15 that
>master
>Windows are not going to be satisfied with "sh*tty software and OS's.
>
You give us too much credit. Each generation has it's computer geeks, just
like they have thier atheletes and comedians and United States Presidents,
but I don't think the future population at large will be much better than
the current one.
>Linux gives thier minds a chance to grow. I give M$ 10 years max.
>They might still be around, but they will be writing apps, not OS's..
>Todays kids will certainly make sure that happens.
I certainly hope so!! But I wouldn't count on it. Microsloth may write
crappy stuff, but they aren't stupid, and people are too complacent to do
anything about it. Our government (I'm an american, I don't know about
y'all) does some stupid stuff, but do we bother to modify/replace it? Not
until it gets really bad (like 213 years ago).
Evan Bender
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