Linux-Misc Digest #249, Volume #26 Mon, 6 Nov 00 15:13:02 EST
Contents:
Microsoft vs Sony: Who will win? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: An unorthodox question about a Win NT/Linux machine. (Howard Brazee)
Re: Linux/UNIX=Windows ("Steve Wolfe")
Re: Kernel compilation problem (inon21)
VPN Linux PoPToP Server (WeBKiLLeR)
Re: Use append to tell linux where Linksys card lives ("Reflexiv")
help with apache on redhat linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Telnet to RedHat 7 (Joshua Baker-LePain)
Re: Linux/UNIX=Windows (Erik de Castro Lopo)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,alt.linux
Subject: Microsoft vs Sony: Who will win?
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:23:51 GMT
One notable event happening in the computer industry is the
consolidation and shriking of the industry to a few major players.
Before where we had major PC clone manufacturers, now we are reaching a
point where all the minor players have either gone out of business,
merged with others, or bought up.
Whenever technology solidifies to the point of being a mass
consumer product, only those with major marketing, technological
expertise, capital will dominate and provide the major innovations.
Sony is now poised to be the major player. If the trend continues, they
will obtain the majority market share knock out the rest of the
contenders. Like the CD-Player and the Walkman, no one can
compete with them based on technological merits, marketing, and
sheer competitive skills aimed at the consumer.
They have found the suppliers they need for the major dependent parts,
and will now start cranking out technology evolutionary at a hyped up
pace (like what they did with the cd-players, walkmans, TV's etc).
Where they will end up being the sole dominant player and marketed to
the consumers until they basically own the majority of the market. Like
the Digital Cameras and other technology, they are integrating and
creating the most innovative combinations.
Sony is aimed at the consumers, the biggest piece of the pie in
the marketplace. Their notebooks are now the most innovative.
The recent release of the CLIE and the coming color CLIE is their
initial launch into the palm computer market. The GT1 is their
recent incarnation of their subnotebooks with integrated digital
camera. No other notebook computer has the technology and know how to
compete in the consumer market like Sony. Traditional notebook makers
do not have manufacturing plants to integrate consumer items like
Digital Cameras and consumer technology.
IBM has knowlege about chip making, but they are left out in the race
to satisfy the consumers. They bulky notebook design have
lots to be desired. Toshiba does not have the design expertise
to satisfy the consumers as well, and is now losing to sony in
the consumer market space. Dell and Compaq are trying to catch
up to the expertise of innovation provided by sony, but they
cannot do this due to their dependence on third party manufacturers.
Sony is now providing the leadership that others lack.
One trend happening in the computer industry is the simplification of
the hardware into simple appliances, where you turn it on and it
functions as you desire.
Sega and their DreamCast not long ago partnered with Microsoft to run CE
operating system on their system.
Now we know that consoles are driven by hardware and games,
not the operating system. If it was, then we already know that
Playstation 1 beat Sega DreamCast.
So this sort of indicates that Microsoft may lose this battle.
They own the OS, but not the hardware, but hardware and pricing
and marketing and games is what is needed to push game consoles, not the
OS that it runs on. Microsoft doesn't compete in the hardware
space, and we know Sony always wins in hardware (just visit your
nearest electronics store and see which sells the most).
And given that the PS2 marketing is pretty good so far (a lot
of media attention about people wanting, but cannot get one),
it looks PS2 beat XBox's marketing for now. People seem to
be talking about picking up a PS2 for double price at ebay.com
or something rather than buy a XBox. (can you imagine that?
paying double the price, rather than wait. This seems to
be a reversal of the attitude a few months ago when people were
contemplating waiting another year for XBox, which isn't even
priced yet).
If this marketing movement continues until christmas, Sony
will have another lock on the game console market, and I predict
greater than 40% with all parties involved. Some are buying
the PS2 as DVD players. (good DVD players cost the
same as a PS2, and some even more).
For some reason I feel Microsoft will stumble on this one like
they did with Sega. They tried to extend into the market through Sega,
lost to Sony, so Microsoft is trying at it alone this time with XBox.
But when I looked at the developers, it seems not many are firmly
commited except PC game developers.
XBox may become a cheap PC clone and die out from
competition of REAL PCs running faster Intel hardware with
upgradable video cards, memory, etc. (It is basically a PC
machine running PC games and a fast video card). Why buy
a lower end version of a PC (XBox) when you can buy the latest
ones running faster from any PC manufacturer?
Is Microsoft trying to use PC platform to extend into
the console gaming market? If this is the strategy, it might
work. But the problem is that we are moving more and more towards
simplicity and the computer is becoming like an appliance (a tv where
you just push a button). For example, look at the palm computers, they
don't have the whole keyboard, just a few buttons and a pen. Gaming
wise, kids prefer to plug in something and play rather
than install, uninstall, and deal with the launching of the program
through an operating system. XBox might be dead from competition within
(the REAL PC gaming market) before it can even compete with the console
market. Maybe Nintendo realized this, and placed
their introduction of their GameCube a month after Microsoft's
launch... so people will wait and buy the Nintendo. If Nintendo does
not believe it can beat Microsoft, it would not have done this, they
would have launched a year later or six months before so they can get
some sales and generate revenue. To release it at
the same time means they have solid belief they are going to win. It
seems Nintendo is on Sony's side on this one.
To understand how Microsoft is approaching the console gaming market,
we must look at how they
are approaching the linux market.
We all know what happened when Microsoft invested in Apple.
They ended up using MS Internet Explorer. In return
Microsoft created the next version of their MS Office for Mac.
This is kind of weird. Apple dependent on another company
to create a product that runs on their OS, in order for their
OS/Mac to thrive and sell more.
You never hear Microsoft asking Sun to port Solaris applications to
Windows in order for Windows to thrive.
This means that there are not many developers at Apple who knows how to
make good applications. Applications that are strong enough people will
buy an operating system to run it.
Lets look at Linux. There are basically no hardcore applications that
Linux has that people NEED to use Linux to run it. But there is MS
Office (used by like 90% of the companies in the world). Microsoft
recently bought influence in Corel (which has their own Linux flavor).
If
Corel were to port .NET apps from Microsoft (ActiveX and COM+ stuff) to
Linux, and it becomes popular, the Linux community may become dependent
on Microsoft apps. (Similar to Mac dependent on MS Office to thrive).
Pretty soon, Microsoft can use this dependency to
leverage control over the Linux marketplace. (The same with
what they did on the Apple marketplace). They may end up tweaking the
code so that performance on Linux is not on par with performance on
Windows, which may shift the people previously commited to
Linux to go to Windows (if they only need Windows
Apps, the operating system does not matter anymore).
The other option is for Microsoft to market their own Linux.
But we all know that any extension of Microsoft is meant to
create dependency on Microsoft Windows. For example, when
Microsoft created J++, they put a lot of plumbing that made
it work only on Windows. When they bought Xenix (unix), they
basically dumped it in favor of Windows even though windows was
at its infancy, and DOS was not as sophisticated as unix at that time.
So when Microsoft goes into the Linux space, they will most likely put
plumbing in Corel Linux or create their own Linux so that makes certain
parts of the OS dependent on Microsoft technology.
(Like J++ needs windows API for sophisticated and easy to use
features). People wanting to connect to windows world through
linux will only buy Linux with the Microsoft plumbing (no other
Linux will have it since only Corel Linux has the .NET stuff).
This would end up extending Microsoft's presence into Linux.
Soon, Microsoft's Linux would become the most popular, and basically
attract all the investements and dollars. Other Linux distribution
companies won't be able to compete and die out. (Similar to what
happened to Borland and Corel and Novell).
With a lot of companies hoping onto the Linux bandwagon (IBM and Sun
for example), it looks like this is another area ripe for
investment and marketing activity. Microsoft will be wanting to extend
their presence to this market as well.
There are basically three ways to attract computer consumers.
1) Attract them via the operating system
2) Attract them via the application
3) Attract them via the hardware
For Microsoft:
1) Windows
2) MS Office
3) Special Keyboard/Mouse
For Linux:
1) Linux
2) ??
3) ??
People are attracted to Linux because of the platform right now. It is
a neat free gadget to play with, and can run neat open
source applications. This is very similar to the attraction
Microsoft had for its first versions of Windows. (3.11 for example).
People got attracted to the OS and started developing apps for it. The
Linux community is now beginning to see apps being developed for it,
but there is yet a strong linux app geared specifically for Linux.
General GNU and opensource apps from Mozilla and Apache run on
multiple operating systems, not just Linux. If apps start
coming to Linux so that it is of very high value and runs
specifially for Linux, THAT is the day when Windows will see
serious competition. However, if Microsoft was to become the
first to dominate the Linux apps market like they did with Apple, then
Linux may become just another MS dependent OS market.
So in the near future you will see Microsoft try to wrestle control
away from the Linux community, like they tried to do with their
proprietary version of Java (J++).
In the marketplace, you either create a competing product with
different technology, or you make a similar product to steal
the market. Palm was first, so Microsoft came out with CE/PocketPC
(different technology). For the browsers, Microsoft made a similar one
to steal the market, and then incorporated differences to
make it stand out. For Linux Microsoft is going to try to
make a similar product via Corel Linux to steal the market and
then make it different to stand out via .NET and in the future
MS Office that ONLY runs on Linux with .NET stuff underneath.
Market penetration is very important. If the size of the market is not
big enough, it may get swallowed up. The video gaming market is big
enough that three major players can fit in it. It is even bigger than
the computer gaming market. If market penetration is low, it may
dissapear like a fad. Newton did not generate enough of a market to
warrant existence. Palm is just around the corner, and is getting help
from manufacturers like Sony. Commodore and Atari went away because the
market was not big enough and the big industry players basically used
their executive influence to axe them.
Is it possible to compete with Microsoft? Definitely. There are many
ways. For Linux, you can utilize Linux characteristics and use them as
an advantage. Because Linux is developed on the
internet, it needs to keep development in internet time. An evolving
platform cannot die if it has market penetration and is able to
sustain it through fast evolutions in internet time. Feature for
feature, if the Linux community comes out with apps exponentially for
linux, this would be a driving force that will make it the most popular
OS. If linux evolves more user=friendly interfaces for the consumer, it
may end up the OS for the rest of us. But people
need to develop apps for it, apps that run specifically for it.
Linux must play to the human psychie. A kid who see's a cool game will
buy the platform to play the game at all costs. A person who sees a
neat minicomputer like a palm computer will get it if he is "hooked",
and will try to buy it at all costs. Similarly, if there is ONE game
that only runs on Linux and is a game people will buy a Linux computer
just to play it, then that is the day
when Linux will be a common household item.
This is the strategy Microsoft played when it grabbed the UK
game developer of Black and White to produce only for the XBox.
If Black and White is a hot ticket to a new platform, everyone
will get the XBox just to play it.
So we have here the case of Sony beating Microsoft on a hardware
dependent system. The Sony Playstation
(one, not PS2) already beat Sega's DreamCast. We know for sure that
the Operating System is not a factor
in this market. As we move towards the XBox versus PS2, we are sure to
see the same pattern appear.
The console gaming market is bigger than the PC gaming market. And
Sony owns the majority share of
the console gaming market. Sony got like 40% of their company profit
on the Playstation One alone.
Right now Sony is locking up the console gaming market again with their
PS2. When the XBox appears a whole
year from now people may view it like a lower end PC clone for running
PC games, and may have a bigger
competition from faster PC's running faster hardware. Meanwhile the
bigger competition is probably between
Nintendo and PS2. But we already know that the Playstation one outsold
Nintendo 64.
So it will be a major PS2 Vs XBox, Sony Vs Microsoft, Japan Vs United
States next year. Both companies
are well equipped with cash to compete with each other. Sony is good
with hardware, marketing, and
consumer products, while Microsoft is good with software, marketing,
and computer products.
If Sony were to put an OS, keyboard, and a mouse on a PS2, it would
literally overnight create a consumer
PC market bigger than Apple, and have serious competition with
Microsoft. Right now Sony's support of
the PalmOS is wreaking havoc on PocketPC's. The Sony CLIE (running
Palm)is outselling compaq and hp models of
PocketPCs. This may end up solidifying the PalmOS as the de facto OS
for palm PC's. Remember, Microsoft
does not have a command on the shrinking of the hardware and the design
of the hardware. Sony has
the skills to do this, not Compaq, not Dell, not HP. Besides Compaq,
Dell and HP rely on third-party
manufactureres to make them, while Sony has the manufacturing plants
and know how from design to finished
product. Apple is surviving now because they can make slick cubes and
iMacs, and is selling not because of
the OS, but because of their hardware and marketing.
So in the near future, expect Sony to come out with more and more
sophisticated and stylish computer
devices that make the OS less and less important but the hardware more
and more important. Where it
become an appliance (like the TV). People know care if all the TV's
share the same user interface. They
care about the resolution and quality of the display. Microsoft' real
hold on the software app market is
Microsoft Word (which is why it is the only software shipped amongst
dozens in its economy notebooks).
Once software competitors from the open source comes up with a Word
Clone, then there will be a major
shakeout in the computer industry, where people will start caring more
about the style of the devices
(like how iPaq and m100 from Palm) rather than the OS underneath. And
we know that Sony is the
master in this territory.
So the question is... If Microsoft and Sony were to battle it out, who
will win? Microsoft entered into Sony's
console gaming market with XBox. Sony entered the Palm PC market with
Sony CLIE (against Microsoft's
PocketPC platform). Sony happens to
make the best notebooks and may own this market in the near future
expecially given their expertise at
innovation in the shriking and design of portable devices (CD-Players
and walkman etc). If notebooks are going to
be the de facto PC in the future (rather than a bulky desktop device) ,
Sony will end up owning the whole PC market (especially when they
market extensively at the consumers). Sony has their own suite of
software apps, and
even has their own OS. Sony even has a solution to connect all
consumer devices (iLink and Memory Stick).
So if Microsoft and Sony were to battle it out, Sony may simply come
out with their own OS instead of using
Microsoft's for their top selling notebooks, and end up destroying
Microsoft's hold in the PC era. Remember, the
reason Microsoft is selling a lot of Windows is because of partnerships
with Compaq and Dell. If Sony were to
jump ship and start selling competing products aimed at the consumers
(either with their own OS or linux, or a
super PalmOS for notebooks), then a BIG portion of the computer market
will be started by Sony. Sony
even has its own manufacturing plants for making .18 micron chips. (on
par with Intel), and have made their
own CPU's and graphic chips (like those found in PS2). They are now
cranking out super workstations on
the high end, own the low end gaming devices, starting to take over the
notebooks and desktop market, and
is solidifiying their hold on the Palm market. So we will see major
competition coming in the near future.
Microsoft VS Sony. United States VS Japan.
Because of Sony's entry into the Notebook market and its dominance, a
lot of US computer companies
are in dire straits. This is why when you visit the comp.sys.laptops
newsgroup, there are paranoid
Buy American readers there advocating the purchase of Dell, Compaq, or
IBM, ANY system besides
Sony, even though Sony has the best notebook on the market. It seems a
lot of people are paid
by the corporations to post fake posts that are really just slams
against competitors and advertisements
for their own company's products. This seems to be the trend these
days. It seems to indicate that
there is a whole different advertising segment on the internet, and
some companies are hiring people
to post advertisements in this internet segment.
This would be a disservice if regular readers cannot tell between the
advertisers and regular posters.
When they can't get truths. But in any case, it would be something to
see when Microsoft and Sony
duke it out against each other. A whole new segment of the computing
industry might emerge.
Sony is on the forefront with their GT1 (combination notebook and
digital camera ready device).
It is heading towards wearable computers that a lot of research
companies have recently dabbled in.
Sony already has a wearable monitor goggle, now they just need to make
the notebook attach to
your body somehow. Their notebooks needs to be carried with hands now.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Howard Brazee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.misc
Subject: Re: An unorthodox question about a Win NT/Linux machine.
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 12:26:36 -0700
Madhusudan Singh wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have a somewhat strange question to ask. I have a dual boot system
>
> with Win NT (service pack 6) and Red Hat 6.1. Mostly I and others use
> Linux, but some of my friends still amazingly find some use for NT. This
> becomes a problem as many of them forget to reboot the computer into
> Linux (I am using System Commander
> with Linux as the default OS) and I cannot access it remotely.
> Is there a way to hack into NT and force it to reboot, say, half an
> hour after every logout ?
>
> I know its a funny way of doing it, but still I would be interested in
> an answer, if there is one.
>
> Thanks,
> Madhusudan Singh.
I await others' replies. But meanwhile I wonder - why do they logout
instead of shutdown/restart? I hardly ever even think about loging out.
------------------------------
From: "Steve Wolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux/UNIX=Windows
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:30:10 -0700
> > The reports of reliability and performance problems in this newsgroup
> > show one trend. The things that make Windows doze or die are the
> > things that make Linux and UNIX doze/die.
>
> Like virii that are autorun by the standard mail reader for the
> platform? No, thats only on windows.
Recently on Bugtraq, there has been discussion of a bug in sendmail that
can allow code to be executed, if I remember correctly. On Microsoft, it
was intended. In sendmail, it was an accident. I'm not sure which is
worse.
> Like runaway user processes that bring the OS kernel to a screaming
> halt? No, thats also windows?
I dunno, Netscape for linux can bring the machine to a halt that can only
be solved by the power switch. I'm not bashing Linux, just being realistic.
> > The performance enhancements
> > suggested for Linux today are the performance enhancements suggested
> > for Windows 5 years ago and MVS 25 years ago.
>
> You care to enunerate? What was it that windows had 5 years and
> linux is only just getting.
Hardware detection for one. Yes, in newer RedHat distros (and perhaps
others), you have kudzu that will configure hardware for you at boot.
Windows had it 5 years ago. Another example would be the DMA transfer
rates. Under windows, the OS finds which mode it can run in, and does it.
Under Linux, you have to run hdparm. Is that bad? It depends on the point
of view. But it is a useful feature that Windows has that Linux doesn't.
Again, I'm not saying that Linux sucks, or that Windows rules. I'd never
use Windows for a server. Despite the many shortcomings of Microsoft, there
have been a few things they've done that aren't so bad. And despite the
superiority of Linux, there are a few things that could be better. If we
ignore them, we are doomed to mediocrity.
> No, Linux has a filesystem that works. It manages the spare space
> on the disk so that the filesystem doesn't become fragmented unless
> the disk fills to more than 90% capacity.
It also has it's downsides. Pull the plug on a Windows machine twnety
times while it's running, and do the same on a Linux machine. From my
experience, you're much more likely to lose a partition on a Linux machine.
Again, I'm not saying that Linux or Ext2 are horrible - just that they're
not perfect. Again, to ignore that would doom us to eternal mediocrity.
steve
------------------------------
From: inon21 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake,alt.os.linux.redhat
Subject: Re: Kernel compilation problem
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:38:05 GMT
I remember reading (for sure) that odd numbers always
indicate 'unstable' version of kernel.
Suggested only if you want to play/test with these unstable versions,
not suggested for production environments.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: WeBKiLLeR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: VPN Linux PoPToP Server
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:46:39 +0100
==============4E85289B1596C6F2452B6B57
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
PoPToP == Linux Server Daemon for VPN(SSL/PPP) developers say it work
with win9x and win2k
I have following problem:
I set up a linux server with PoPToP daemon. It works fine with
a windows 98 client but if the win2k client try to connect i get
following error message
No network protocols running.
and the daemon closes the connection.
I need fast help.
GreetZ WeBKiLLeR
==============4E85289B1596C6F2452B6B57
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
PoPToP == Linux Server Daemon for VPN(SSL/PPP) developers say
it work with win9x and win2k
<p>I have following problem:
<p>I set up a linux server with PoPToP daemon. It works fine with
<br>a windows 98 client but if the win2k client try to connect i get following
error message
<p>No network protocols running.
<p>and the daemon closes the connection.
<p>I need fast help.
<br>
<p>
GreetZ WeBKiLLeR</html>
==============4E85289B1596C6F2452B6B57==
------------------------------
From: "Reflexiv" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Use append to tell linux where Linksys card lives
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:52:17 -0500
I am definitely glad someone with more experience is correcting my mistakes,
as I am just a beginner that experienced about four days of frustration
until stumbling on a solution. One thing you said that I am confused about
is that i am pretty sure that I am loading the driver code as a module, as I
never recompiled the kernel, but just downloaded the modules from scyld as
an RPM. Am I misunderstanding something else? Anyway, it seemed to work for
me using append in lilo.conf this way.
Also, to clarify a point where it seems you misunderstood me, I said to use
the diagnostic disk to find out where the PCI card had installed itself, not
to try to force the card to accept an assignment. It was Linux that needed
to be forced to look in the right place for it, it seems.
Thanks
Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8u6v8c$1e9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.hardware Reflexiv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : Here is one thing that I had to do in addition to getting and compiling
the
> : new drivers for my LNE100TX card to work, that hopefully will help
others:
>
> : I had to add an "append" line into my lilo.conf file to tell the kernel
>
> This is only the case if your kernel has the code compiled in, which is
> NOT normally the case nowadays! Most people will load the driver code
> as a module, and as such they need the params in conf.modules.
>
> : so, for example, append="ether=10,300,eth0", would force Linux to look
at
> : IRQ 10, base address 300 for an ethernet device, and name it eth0.
>
> Only if the driver accepts that kind of treatment. A pci card
> negotiates its own irq with the pci bus. Check the possible options
> for the driver you are using.
>
> : You need some diagnostic software to tell you what the IRQ and base
address
> : of your card is. Linksys includes a disk with their card which has a
>
> Only if it's an isa card. A pci card will tell YOU (/proc/pci).
>
> Peter
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: help with apache on redhat linux
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:46:45 GMT
i find that my http server died. there were no processes for httpd
under the list of processes.
i tried to run the httpd daemon itself /usr/sbin/httpd but i got the
following error.....
httpd: Cannot determine local host name
Use the ServerName directive to set it manually
but do a hostname (comand hostname) it gives the host name fine
next, I rebooted the system, the httpd daemon started up on box
reboot.
please let me know as to what went wrong and what does the error
message above mean ? (use ServerName directive to set it manually)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Joshua Baker-LePain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Telnet to RedHat 7
Date: 6 Nov 2000 20:04:28 GMT
DualIP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> in RH62:
> /etc/inetd.conf
RH7 has moved to xinetd, which keeps its config files (IIRC) in
/etc/xinetd, one file per service.
> Also obvious the telnet deamon should be installed
Yep.
--
Joshua Baker-LePain
Department of Biomedical Engineering
Duke University
------------------------------
From: Erik de Castro Lopo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux/UNIX=Windows
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:16:24 GMT
Steve Wolfe wrote:
>
> > > The reports of reliability and performance problems in this newsgroup
> > > show one trend. The things that make Windows doze or die are the
> > > things that make Linux and UNIX doze/die.
> >
> > Like virii that are autorun by the standard mail reader for the
> > platform? No, thats only on windows.
>
> Recently on Bugtraq, there has been discussion of a bug in sendmail that
> can allow code to be executed, if I remember correctly.
You mean a buffer overflow that overwrites the stack and causes the
CPU to just to some malicious code?
Yes that has been a problem in the past (pre version 8) but it
has been fixed for ages. The Microsoft problem still exists.
Erik
--
+-------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+-------------------------------------------------+
"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the
day they start making vacuum cleaners." -- Ernst Jan Plugge
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
