Linux-Misc Digest #359, Volume #21 Wed, 11 Aug 99 03:13:12 EDT
Contents:
Re: Marx vs. Nozick (Jordan Bettis)
Re: Have you heard? (C. Newport)
Re: complete freeze with RH6 (Darrel Davis)
Re: Where do i get linux products? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: non-SCSI scanners (Gerald Willmann)
Upgrading shared libraries (Michael Jenner)
Re: Graphics Library for C/C++ ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux vs. Unix (Joseph Crowe)
Re: Connect to ISP when phone rings: is this possible? (Glitch)
Re: dvips and RH6.0 (William Burkett)
Re: Linux assembly, etc (Josef =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6llers?=)
Re: what NIC + Hub do you pros use? (Timothy J. Lee)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:05:36 -0500
From: Jordan Bettis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Marx vs. Nozick
Matthias Warkus wrote:
>
> It was the Thu, 22 Jul 1999 03:03:29 GMT...
> ..and Peter Seebach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > Matthias Warkus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >Show me an animal that is intelligent, creative, literate and capable
> > >of abstract thought. Then I'll agree with you.
> >
> > This is begging the question. If we are animals, then we are an example of
> > animals capable of abstract thought. If we aren't, then we are not such an
> > example.
> >
> > Now, that said, there's a number of documented behaviors in "animals" that
> > look suspiciously like any of the above except 'literate'.
>
> You are playing semantics games again.
>
> "The only animal species that is intelligent, creative, literate and
> capable of abstract thought" == "Man"
Well, everything you say here is ambiguous with the exception of
literate. So, are illiterate people not human? When you say literate, do
you mean in their own spoken language? What if their spoken language has
no written counterpart?
How would you define intelligent? Is it being knowledge of a given
battery of facts? In which case, which facts? Or is it the capability to
reason subjectively? How is that different from being capable of
abstract thought?
About abstract thought. Do you mean the capability of referencing one
thing with another (such as with a pointer (only in ones mind))? If so,
I recall an experiment where a treat was hidden in a room. A two year
old chimp was shown a miniature mock up of this room. The instructor
then took a miniature of the treat and placed it in the miniature of the
room in the place which related to the place where the real treat was
located in the real room. The chimp went straight to the treat. When
repeated with a two year old human child, however, the child could not
find the treat.
Or do you mean the capability to comprehend things that are beyond their
experience? Physicists think that there is space that contains many more
than three space dimensions. Can you actually comprehend that fourth
dimension? Even if we were exposed to it, the experience would probably
be lost on us. Although we can understand it mathematically, and we can
know it exists, we can not think abstractly enough to really comprehend
it.
> BTW, I'd like to see examples of animal creativity. As far as I know,
> creativity as a voluntary act of creation is unknown to animals.
[snip]
First of all, define 'voluntary act of creation'. How is that different
from any other form of creativity? Are you implying that creativity is
not voluntary?
A certain type of ape, exactly which escapes me at the moment, enjoys a
treat consisting of ants. Capturing these elusive animals is quite
difficult, however, for the animals with rather bulky hands.
The solution? The ape will rummage through the forest until it finds the
proper stick, it will then fashion it to the proper size, and insert it
into the ant hill. Once removed the stick is crawling with ants for the
primate to eat. Most interesting is the fact that this is not inherent,
but is learned. Apparently some ape at some point in history thought up
using a stick to fish up ants, and experimented until the proper shape
i.e. length, diameter, etc. of stick was discovered. This little gem of
knowledge, as well as how to fashion such an instrument has been passed
down through generations. It is a piece of communal knowledge for those
animals.
I relay this particular anecdote because of my reaction when watching
one of these animals create one of those instruments. My initial thought
was "My God, they're making tools!"
Also examine the falcon. If left to grow up without maternal influence,
a falcon will not know how to hunt, or even fly well for that matter.
Those are learned traits, not instinctual. And even when a falcon has
left it's mother, it does not quit learning, it will continue to hone
its skills. It tries something and thinks "that didn't work, I'll have
to do something else" and it is creative enough to derive another way to
attack the situation.
Most interesting, however is studies that have been conducted with
parrots. It is generally understood that a parrot can learn to mimmic
human words. But what these studies strongly suggest is that the parrots
can actually apply meaning to those words. I watched a session with one
parrot where a parrot was shown some blocks of various shapes sizes and
colors. The parrot was then asked to choose the 'foo' shaped block,
which it did, followed by the block of 'foo' color and 'foo' comparative
size (for values of biggest and smallest). The parrot will also, after
making it's selection, would chant 'treat, treat' so as not to let the
trainer forget to give it its reward. Near the end of the exercise, as
the animal began to get fatigued, it started to proclaim 'cage' implying
that it wanted to be placed back in its cage (thus ending the session).
It would seem that not only are animals creative, but they are also
capable of many incidents of 'abstract thought' or 'intelligence' as
well as a healthy capacity to learn.
I think it would be an interesting experiment to allow a human child to
grow up with no human contact, but in a family of apes, and see how much
he is like the modern humans who gave birth to him, and how much he is
like the apes who raised him.
--
Jordan Bettis BTW: ^Omit the OMIT ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
"It being my conviction that any Established Church is an established
crime, an established slave pin."
-Twain
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (C. Newport)
Crossposted-To:
alt.linux,alt.linux.sux,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.caldera,alt.os.linux.mandrake,alt.os.linux.slackware,alt.sex.fetish.linux,be.comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.security,esp.comp.so.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Have you heard?
Date: 11 Aug 1999 01:09:34 +0100
Brian ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: It's down now.
: What a piece of crap!
: Brian
Next time it comes up send it another 'ping of death'.
Maybe it will go down again...... <B-).
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.hardware
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:52:21 -0400
From: Darrel Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: complete freeze with RH6
On 10 Aug 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a k6-2 350 w/ 128M RAM and a tulip card. I got freezes
when I upgraded to RH6 just like you describe but found it was
only with Gnome/Enlightenment. Under KDE it is rock solid.
Never a problem.
Visually I prefer Gnome/E but since I'm doing production work I
cannot have any lockups or crashes so I use KDE.
-darrel
> > we're running a PII450 (128 MB RAM) as an email & webpage server, as well
> > as allowing people to use it as an X-terminal (xmgr, mathematica, wp
> > etc.)
> > ever since we upgraded to RH6 we've been having very nasty freeze-ups
> > where the whole machine locks up about once a week. X locks, keyboard &
> > mouse are ignored, you can't telnet in & other machines that are
> > nfs-mounting it can no longer access its drives. the only thing that seems
> > to be common to all the lockups is someone is logged into X when it
> > happens, what's being run under X always appears different (different
> > apps, different windowmanagers, same freeze).
> >
> > the machine has a complete RH6 install (kernel-2.2.5-22) with all the
> > updates & is running a number of services. its X-server is the Mach64 ATi
> > server (3.3.3.1-52) running on a Rage Pro (8MB). there appears to be no
> > common time for the freezes & nothing shows up in /var/log/messages. i'm
> > at a complete loss as to why the machine keeps crashing & i'm hoping
> > someone else has seen this behaviour with a similar system & solved it :)
> > - or at least figured out what the cause is. the only other symptom is
> > that on reboot the sequence stops at checking the harddrive & makes you
> > exit & run fsck manually.
> >
> > any help or suggestions are appreciated, linux crashing is bad and ugly.
> >
> > chris
> >
> > University of Toronto, Canada
> > Office : MP096
> > Phone : (416) 978-0353
>
>
============================================
Darrel Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
============================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,redhat.general
Subject: Re: Where do i get linux products?
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:31:17 GMT
Try www.linuxberg.com, www.gnu.org, www.gnome.org, www.redhat.com, and a
zillion others. Most of these have a lot of stuff you can download.
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
George Clover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there a centralized place on the web where i can order Linux
related
> products (besides LinuxMall.COM)?
> I need computers and software that runs on Linux.
>
> ------------------ Posted via CNET Linux Help ------------------
> http://www.searchlinux.com
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: Gerald Willmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: non-SCSI scanners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:32:49 -0700
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Bob Lockie wrote:
> I would have to buy a SCSI card too.
> How can I guarantee that a SCSI scanner I pick will work with the SCSI card I
> pick?
> I have had difficulties getting an HP scanner to work with an Adaptec 2940.
> It works fine with the HP card.
> I don't want to have to install a different SCSI card for each device.
first of all you need a scsi card which is supported by linux (which
excludes the card which comes with HP scanners AFAIK). But once you have
SCSI up and running the scanner shouldn't be a problem as long as you are
carefull with cabling and termination and have software that supports it.
Check the hardware compatibility guide for supported scsi cards and then
sane or xvscan for supported scanners. I use a HP scanjet IIc off a
buslogic bt958 with xvscan and it works fine.
Gerald
--
------------------------------
From: Michael Jenner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.unix.programmer
Subject: Upgrading shared libraries
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:08:38 GMT
I'm trying to upgrade a RH6.0 to hold a newer version of GD
(http://www.boutell.com ) in this case 1.3.5. My "problem" is
that RH6.0 supplies a GD library which is shared, ie.:
/usr/lib/libgd.so.1.2
/usr/lib/libgd.so.1
/usr/lib/libgd.so
but compiling GD from sources provides a static library, i.e.
"libgd.a"
I changed the Makefile to:
********************************
CC=gcc
CFLAGS=-O -fPIC
LDFLAGS=-shared
LIBS=-L./ -lgd -lm
all: libgd.so gddemo
libgd.so: gd.o gdfontt.o gdfonts.o gdfontmb.o gdfontl.o gdfontg.o
\
gd.h gdfontt.h gdfonts.h gdfontmb.h gdfontl.h gdfontg.h
rm -f libgd.so
$(CC) $(LDFLAGS) -o libgd.so \
-W1,-soname,libgd.so.1.3 gd.o \
gdfontt.o gdfonts.o gdfontmb.o gdfontl.o
gdfontg.o
gddemo: gddemo.o libgd.so gd.h gdfonts.h gdfontl.h
$(CC) gddemo.o -o gddemo $(LIBS)
********************************
and it seems to build. What I did next was:
cd .../gd1.3
make clean
make
=> libgd.so
cp libgd.so /usr/lib/libgd.so.1.3
=> as Redhat uses libgd.so.1.2 I just increased the minor version
number.
cd /usr/lib
ln -s -f libgd.so.1.3 libgd.so
ln -s -f libgd.so.1.3 libgd.so.1
ldconfig
However, running "ldconfig -v | grep libgd.so", "ldconfig -p |
grep libgd.so", and "dir libgd.so*" all reveals that libgd.so
points to the new .so file, but libgd.so.1 points to the old lib,
i.e. libgd.so.1.2
Hints, suggestions etc are very welcomed.
Regards,
Michael
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.hacking,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Graphics Library for C/C++
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:05:09 GMT
Do you have a distribution of Linux on your computer ? If so, you
probably already have several graphics libraries. I use gtk+ and gdk for
C programming; they came with Redhat 6.0 and if I understand correctly
were originally made for the Gimp. There is a gtk+ web site at
www.gtk.org. You can download the libraries and documentation if you
don't already have them.
In article <7opt1p$phu$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm looking any available graphics library for C/C++. I've looked on
> the net and can't seem to find any. I found reference to a library
> called gpc-graphics++.h but I can't seem to find it anywhere. Any
help
> would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: Joseph Crowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Linux vs. Unix
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:16:08 -0500
On Tue, 10 Aug 1999, Danny wrote:
>
> Bob wrote:
> >
> > How much different is Linux than Unix? Are the system commands
> basically
> > the same? What are the major differences between the two? Please help
> > clarify this for me. Thank you in advance.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> From a user's point of view there aren't any substantial differences
> between Linux and Unix, i.e., the command lines, the applications,
> concepts like environment variables, etc are pretty much the same.
Very close to true. However, some small differences exist and certain
tools, largely of developer interest, that exist on various Unix
implementations do not exist, to my knowledge, on Linux.
> The main difference however, is that Linux can be installed on Intel-based
> architectures, whereas Unix systems usually require dedicated (and
> expensive) hardware architectures.
Actually, no, this is not the case anymore. Although Linux probably
runs on more ISAs than anything else, there are a number of UNIX variants
that run on Intel x86, including FreeBSD, OpenBSD, SCO UnixWare and Sun's
Solaris. Also, SGI has some x86 offerings now.
>
> Danny Kalev
>
Joseph Crowe
http://www.io.com/~jcrowe
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:29:44 -0400
From: Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Connect to ISP when phone rings: is this possible?
Peter Caffin wrote:
>
> TAT wrote:
> > Is it possible to have my modem detect an incoming call, hang up
> > on that call and immediately run pppon? I'd like to connect to my
> > home machine from office, and I don't have a modem at office.
>
how is this possible if u dont know the IP address of your computer once
its connected to your ISP? Obviously its going to be different each time
u connect and since u would be telnetting u would need to know the IP of
the computer, right?
> I believe that mgetty is capable of doing this. Have a look at the
> Mgetty Homepage at http://www.leo.org/~doering/mgetty/index.html
> and the Usenet newsgroup de.alt.comm.mgetty.
>
--
"Bill Gates?, I dont know any Bill Gates. Oh, you mean 'by putting
every conceivable
feature into an OPERATING SYSTEM, whether you want it or not, is
innovation' Bill
Gates? Yeah, I know the monopolizer"
http://web.mountain.net/~brandon/main.htm
For Beginners in Linux, Emulation, Midis, Playstation Info, and
Virii.
------------------------------
From: William Burkett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: dvips and RH6.0
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:36:00 -0500
Ramin Sina wrote:
> Greetings,
> I dvips a .dvi file ( produced with latex) in Red Hat 6.0; but instead
> of getting a .ps file, it prints out the file. How do I make it generate
> a postscript file ?
Instead of typing "dvips originalfile.dvi", try typing "dvips
originalfile.dvi -o newfile.ps". This will save the output in the file
rather than sending it to your printer. There are some other options to
dvips that you may also find useful - these are documented in the man
page. If you are using teTeX and installed it in the default directories,
you'll probably have the man page file stored as
/usr/local/teTeX/man/man1/dvips.1. If you installed teTeX using the RPM,
it's probably not in local - you'll have to do a find or locate to hunt for
it. You might want to add this path to your MANPATH environment variable,
so you don't have to look for it every time.
-Liam
------------------------------
From: Josef =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6llers?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Linux assembly, etc
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:12:00 +0200
Alexander Viro wrote:
> =
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >of course it's not *really* a shared library. however, on the surface=
> >it shares a couple of attributes:
> >
> >1) system calls are done by a C subroutine call mechanism. in x86 you=
> > push args onto the stack and use a `call' instruction.
> =
> Check the facts, please. It's done by putting the values into registers=
> followed by int 0x80. No trace of call. We are *not* using the call
> gate - it's a trap gate and nothing is copied from the caller's stack.
> Check arch/i386/kernel/{trap.c,entry.S} for details. Or just do the fol=
lowing:
> al@bird:/tmp$ ar x /usr/lib/libc.a write.o
> al@bird:/tmp$ objdump --disassemble write.o |less
Could it possibly be that you two (Alexander and Johan) happily talk
past another?
If I wrote a C program, I would initiate a system call (e.g.
open/close/read/write) by calling a subroutine/function (possibly) in
the standard-C-library (g)libc. This is usually but not necessarily a
shared library. My process would still be in user land, parameters would
(usually) be passed by pushing them onto the stack and retrieving them
from there. The passing of arguments and the calling of functions is a
compiler issue.
(This is Johan's point of view)
The library function would then, in turn, do the actual system call,
e.g. by loading the parameters into registers and executing an INT
instruction. This would switch into system mode and enter the kernel.
This is a kernel implementation issue.
(This is Alexander's statement)
Having a library between the user code and the kernel call has the
advantage that the source code is independent of the kernel-entry
mechanism: No matter how the transition from user to kernel mode was
implemented, INT 0x80, CALL gate, SYSCALL instruction, or even
attempting to execute an illegal instruction, the source code would
still refer to it as a function. Some "system calls" may even be
implemented partially or wholly in user land, e.g. a kernel
implementation may choose to map the proc structure read-only into the
user address space, getpid(), getuid() and friends would then require no
entry into kernel mode.
Having a shared library has the additional advantage that a program
gains a certain degree of binary portability, because the transition
code is added at runtime and a different library may be linked at
program start time to reflect the change in calling method.
Hoping to end a senseless debate,
Josef
-- =
PS Die hier dargestellte Meinung ist die persoenliche Meinung des
Autors!
PS This article reflects the autor=B4s personal views only!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Timothy J. Lee)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: what NIC + Hub do you pros use?
Date: 11 Aug 1999 06:14:32 GMT
Reply-To: see-signature-for-email-address---junk-not-welcome
Lindoze 2000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|What 100BaseT Network Interface Card and 100BaseT Hub do you pros use?
DEC 21140 based cards and Intel 8255x (EtherExpress Pro100) cards
work consistently for me. Lite-On PNIC based cards I've found work
in some computers, but not others (even with tulip.c 0.91).
--
========================================================================
Timothy J. Lee timlee@
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. netcom.com
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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