Linux-Misc Digest #445, Volume #24 Fri, 12 May 00 09:13:02 EDT
Contents:
vmware problems (kev)
X-windows is failing please help ("Kofi Asante")
Re: ps printer configuration ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: From Linux BACK to Win 98SE (Mark(un-MASKForsyth))
Re: DNS problem (Mark(un-MASKForsyth))
Re: Like Defrag.exe in Win, but in Linux. (Mark(un-MASKForsyth))
napster problem - firewall? ("Martin Craig")
Samba password problem (Rafael)
Re: napster problem - firewall? (JosB)
Re: WANTED: Champion (sergio)
Re: Internal Robotics modem problem (Patricia)
Re: FreeBSD and Linux (Neil Blakey-Milner)
Re: Recommendation for beginner (JackStraw)
linux: my display is too large (lionel)
Re: Minimal rh6.1 install on old machine ("F. Michael Orr")
Re: linux: my display is too large (Dances With Crows)
Re: NTFS: Linux performance? (Ken Yasuda)
Re: WANTED: Champion (Christopher Browne)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: vmware problems
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:16:55 +0000
Hi,
I've installed vmware successfully, but have run into problems
installing NT.
First off, after telling it of a SCSI device and supplying the
manufacturer's floppy, it tells me the device is not located in my
computer. I can use my IDE disk for the time being, but I really would
like to put it on my (much emptier) SCSI disk.
Secondly - and this is quite scary! - I get this message:
"Setup has determined that your computer's startup hard disk is new or
has been erased, or that an operating system is installed on your
computer with which Windows NT cannot co-exist.
If such an operating system is installed on your computer, continuing
Setup may damage or destroy it.
If the hard disk is new or has been erased, or you want to discard it's
current contents, you can choose to continue Setup".
Does this really mean what it says? Can I ignore this message or has
something gone wrong with my vmware installation?
thanks,
- Kev
------------------------------
From: "Kofi Asante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: X-windows is failing please help
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:40:01 +0100
Help! Please help!!!
I have set Linux to start X-windows when it boots up. This has worked
successfully for rhree weeks until yesterday. it has gone biserk. When
X-windows tries to start up, it seems to be going in a loop. Since i am not
able to get the propmt, I can't even try antthing. I have tried using the
interactive set up but it still goes into a loop. Any ideas?
Edward
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ps printer configuration
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:30:30 GMT
the final culprit was the wrong queue on the printer :(
sorry,
grisa
In article <8fedik$v3r$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I setup the remote hp4m+ ps printer in my RH6.1 box by printtool.
> it prints the test page just fine, and works from Netscape or
> StarOffice.
>
> The problem I have is that it prints only garbled text if I try to
print
> an ordinary PostScript file, eg:
>
> lpr file.ps
>
> any input would be greatly appreciated
> this is the relevant part of my /etc/printcap
>
> lp|hp4m-ps:\
> :sd=/var/spool/lpd/lp:\
> :mx#0:\
> :rm=hp4m:\
> :rp=raw:\
> :if=/var/spool/lpd/lp/filter:\
> :sh:
>
> thanx in advance,
>
> grisa
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark(un-MASK)Forsyth)
Subject: Re: From Linux BACK to Win 98SE
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:34:20 +1000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 10 May 2000 01:44:36 -0400, Lonni J. Friedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>"Jeff W." wrote:
>>
>> I currently have Corel Linux OS on my laptop and I just don't like the way
>> it works, I've had monitor problems, and a whole mess of things. I want to
>> take it off completely and reinstall Win 98SE. Now, I have Win 2000 on my
>> terminal and I don't know what kind of startup disk I'll need. Are there
>> any suggestions on how to go back to 98 on the laptop?? Thanks in advance.
>
>I think you need to be asking in a windoze NG. We do linux here, in
>case you didn't notice. You didn't ask in a windoze NG how to get rid
>of windoze to install linux, did you?
Don't be so petty.
What you need to do is to take your W98 CD-ROM to a working win system and
create the emergency diskette. Or whatever it's caleld under windows.
You'l also have to use a real fdisk to get rid of the ext-2 partition.
MS fidisk just cannot believe that there is another fdisk out there. One
that does things CORRECTLY to boot. Nope MS fdisk can't deal with it all
being right. Just use the fdisk from linux and no problems...
--
Mark F...
unMASK for e-mail
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark(un-MASK)Forsyth)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: DNS problem
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:30:29 +1000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 9 May 2000 18:45:02 GMT, Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
[deletia]
>--
>Cheers
>Steve email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee 0 pps.
Oh man...AT least get the error message correct. It really should read :-
%HAV-E-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee !AS pps.
or the original error :-
%EYE-I-CLOSED No cafeine eyes closed.
This is the root cause of the problem. The second error is a consequence.
[1]
>
>web http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~sjlen/
>
>or http://start.at/zero-pps
>
> 9:40am up 12 days, 11:41, 2 users, load average: 1.08, 1.02, 1.00
[1] Non OpenVMS-heads can safely ignore this.
--
Mark F...
unMASK for e-mail
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark(un-MASK)Forsyth)
Subject: Re: Like Defrag.exe in Win, but in Linux.
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:02:55 +1000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 06 May 2000 23:10:14 -0400, Rick Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>Effidently good advice. I just read in the partition HOWTO that when creating
>partitions use the 1 KB default block size if possible. In so doing ext2
>filesystems does not add alot of wasted space the end of each created file.
>You may want to experiment with a block size of 2 KB for some partitions, but
>expect to meet some seldom exercised bugs because of more fragmentation: Most
>people use the default. Ext2 tries to preallocate space in units of 8
>contiguous blocks for growing files. Unused preallocation is released when the
>file is closed, so no space is wasted. It says to use available
>defragmentation utilities for Linux at your own risk because they are seldom
>used, therefore not tested tough. Bottom line is that it is not necessary to
>carry over this religous habit in the DOS/Windows world into Linux.
>
>hoffy
>
Close. MOST partitions won't need defragmenting on a regular basis. Just do it
when things get out of hand. Other partitions OTH have huge fragmentation problems.
In these cases a degree or proactivity is required. My favourite defrag tool
is to backup the partition, format it and the restore it. All nice and contiguous.
The sorts of partitions that will require defragmenting are partitions that have a
LARGE number of EXTREMELY volatile SMALL files with a few bigger files thronw in.
Not a normal mix but one which is usually found on the partition where the debris
from a news server resides. Mostly, however just forget about it. This is a result
of having a REAL file system. ie. We only need to defrag rarely and then only because
of performance problems. With FAT(32) file systems you have to defrag often, just
to keep it working.
>
--
Mark F...
unMASK for e-mail
------------------------------
From: "Martin Craig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: napster problem - firewall?
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:48:28 -0500
I can't get any of the linux napster clients to work! They say
'Finding best host' but don't connect. If I specify a host (eg
in gnapster) it can't connect either, though if I telnet to one
of the hosts it works.
I am behind a firewall - could this be the trouble and is there
likely to be any way round it?
Thanks for any help,
Martin.
------------------------------
From: Rafael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Samba password problem
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 13:08:19 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
When I trying to change password as a user I getinng:
getsmbfilepwent:Malformed Lanman password entry (non hex chars)
Whats that
Rafael
------------------------------
From: JosB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: napster problem - firewall?
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:18:18 GMT
In article <8fgnii$t93$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Martin Craig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I can't get any of the linux napster clients to work! They say
> 'Finding best host' but don't connect. If I specify a host (eg
> in gnapster) it can't connect either, though if I telnet to one
> of the hosts it works.
>
> I am behind a firewall - could this be the trouble and is there
> likely to be any way round it?
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Martin.
There is a Mini How-To called IP-Masquerading+Napster.
Perhaps this solves your problems.
Try http://www.linux.org or I can send it to you if you like that...
Jos Buurman
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: sergio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: WANTED: Champion
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 12:30:05 +0100
Christopher Browne wrote:
>
> Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Sam E. Trenholme would
> say:
> >>This software is CURRENTLY not open source since the author makes a
> >>living writing software
> >
> >I wish the utmost of success for this software, but I have serious
> >reservations about this package thriving.
>
> I have more than merely "reservations" about the likelihood of it
> thriving, and, if the licensing approach remains proprietary, thus
> indicating that the producers are gaining from others' contributions,
> but not freely contributing themselves, I have some reservations about
> the notion of wishing them success.
If the source is not open and contributors cannot add to it or change
it,
how are the producers gaining from others' contributions? In the same
way
that Visual Basic itself gains by someone writing a Visual Basic program
maybe?
> >Considering the number of free and public-domain toolkits out there, which
> >this list just gives a sampling of, there is a lot of competition out
> >there:
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/7184/guitool.html
> > http://www.free-soft.org/guitool/
>
> Indeed. The likelihood of a "not open source" GUI framework becoming
> the "the native GUI of Linux" is _vanishingly_ small.
>
> (Actually, it's _impossible_ unless the framework is released under a
> license compatible with the GPL, as, to become a truly "native" GUI
> for Linux, it would have to be somehow integrated with the Linux
> kernel, and such integration would _MANDATE_ using the GPL. Section
> 2(b), for any "license lawyers" out there...)
By integrated into the kernel are you suggesting that unless the
software
is tightly bound to the kernel that it cannot work? In which case I
refer
you to X11 (X Windows system) and the ext2 file system which both seem
to
work quite well on Linux without needing to be compiled directly into
the
kernel.
Or are you suggesting that if a piece of third party software uses
system
calls that exist within the kernel, that that software MUST be GPL. If
so I hope the likes of Borland, Coral and IBM are reading this.
> The downside to the claim that "not open source" is somehow associated
> with "making a living writing software" is that those that are picking
> tools are likely to prefer the one that is more available.
Could you please clarify this sentence.
> Thus diminishing interest in the "not open source" options, and
> outright diminishing the ability of those that are trying to sell
> those options to earn their living doing so.
Yep, and this one.
The only people I currently see making a living on open source software
are those that package and sell it (such as Red Hat), those that provide
support for it without actually writing it and those that use it as a
platform for their existing commercial products such as Coral. How are
the original developers or even the subsequent maintainers benefiting
financially
from any of this?
> A more useful approach would be to try to get a group together to get
> skilled with the package, and then try to "pitch" it to one of the
> major Linux vendors (e.g. - RHAT, LNUX, SuSE, TurboLinux, ...) with a
> view to seeing them sponsor further development of it in an "open
> source" form.
So to be a success I must first give it away, then see if I can get
someone to pay me for it? Get real.
> But if Sergio seriously wants to pull people into that process at
> _this_ stage, I would suggest that he open up his pocketbook, and
> offer some combination of Real $$$, perhaps with an option on
> ownership of the enterprise that does that initial development.
"_this_" stage? What initial development? The product is in the final
stages of testing prior to full release and is really only waiting for
the documentation to catch up and a conclusion as to whether or not
Linux
is a viable commercial platform.
> The notion that people will find it a Wise Move to send in $10 per
> head to "Sergio Enterprises" seems vanishingly unlikely.
No one was suggesting that anyone just send me money. The idea was that
they paid a small fee for something that they actually wanted to use.
> _That_ kind of licensing cost makes it vastly too expensive to include
> with any of the Linux "boxed sets," where it is highly probable that
> the vendors make far less than $10 per box.
They make less than $10 a box? Their overheads must be intergalactic
considering how much they charge the end user and how little is in
the box. How many hundreds of millions of dollars is Red Hat currently
worth (despite the recent stock upset)? And all for less than $10 a box.
This posting seems to be far more about justifying open source than
about
whether my product is good or bad for Linux. I am asking for people to
independently investigate my products capabilities and to publish their
findings to the rest of the Linux community. If this product is as good
as
I say it is, it can only be a benefit.
Just as a mater of interest how much money has Linus received for his
continuing open source contribution over the last several years? Does
not compare well with Red Hat does it?
Sergio Masci
http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XEBOT
------------------------------
From: Patricia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Internal Robotics modem problem
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 13:32:35 +0200
On Fri, 12 May 2000, Boomer wrote:
>I am running Corel Linux OS Deluxe. Corel Linux is powered by the Debian
>Linux distribution and a set of complimentary tools & utilities from GNU.
>I tried to setup a Internal Robotics modem
>(33KC) on COM2 using the network / dial-up option
>When I connect to the ISP,
>I get Modem ready, Dialing,
>Logging on to network.
>Then I get Linux ERROR:
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>The PPPD daemon died unexpectedly!
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>How do I fix this problem?
>Hardware:
>150 MHz Pentium CPU, 13 GB harddrive,
>Using External Robotics Modem on COM2.
>ISP is IWAYNET (Local ISP)
>Primary DNS 198-30-29-7
>Secondary DNS 198-30-29-8
>Thank You for any help or suggestions.
>Bert Edwards
>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Boomer
be sure pppd is the binary and not a script.
be sure that pppd is setuid root
be sure /etc/ppp/options exist and there are no wrong entries, when you are not sure,
leave it empty.
remove the lock in /etc/ppp/options
if the symbolic link /dev/modem causes problems,.
Use the real port ( -> setup->modem->device)
ttyS0 -> COM1
ttyS1 -> COM2
ttyS2 -> COM3
ttyS3 -> COM4
--
Good Luck
Patricia
http://www.crosswinds.net/~beginnerslinux
Red Hat Linux release 6.0 (Hedwig)
Kernel 2.2.5-15
1:33pm up 16:47, 1 user, load average: 1.25, 1.28, 1.35
Fri May 12 13:33:18 CEST 2000
------------------------------
From: Neil Blakey-Milner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Linux
Date: 12 May 2000 11:40:16 GMT
In comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> John S. Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : Christopher Browne wrote:
> :> <http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-project-9911/msg00042.html>
> :> has a discussion thread entitled "Stop Debian/FreeBSD," so evidently some
> :> people aren't thrilled with the idea...
> :
> : That is kind of interesting, because it would be good to have a
> : Linux-style OS with a freely redistributable (in the sense of developer
> : free), non-redistribution encumbered kernel.
> all-too-chaotic Linux world, at least indirectly. I don't think the
> end result would be very useful (one of the suggestions was a
> possible effort to get FreeBSD (not Debian/FreeBSD) to replace ports
> with dpkg?! If anything, that should be the other way around...?!),
dpkg is a package manager. Ports is not a package manager.
pkg_add/delete/info is our (FreeBSD's) equivalent. Replacing pkg_* with
dpkg would increase the current functionality.
I've been convinced to wait for and help develop on the new sysinstall
replacement, which includes an impressive-looking package management
system. Otherwise I would push for apt-get and dpkg-like package managers.
Neil
--
Neil Blakey-Milner
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: JackStraw <jack.straw@witchita>
Subject: Re: Recommendation for beginner
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:14:02 -0400
On Fri, 12 May 2000 08:29:28 +0100, "Ken White"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi all, I have a "redundant" Cyrix P200 which I would like to set-up using
>Linux. I have never used linux before, which version should I get? I want to
>learn how to use linux but do not want to loose the rest of my hair;-).
>
>I have experience setting up PCs using DOS -> Win98.
>
>Any guidance would be appreciated.
o Get a good book (O'Reilly's _Running Linux_ perhaps)
o Don't re-install. Linux is not like windows, you can
alwasy recover.
o Don't be chintzy (sp?) when choosing your packages,
you'll need more libraries than you think.
o Resign yourself to the fact that linux can be dificult,
and you might end up loosing your hair anyway.
--
JackStraw
0x3D561045
This Internet of yours is a wonderful invention."
--George W. Bush, in an e-mail to Al Gore.
http://news.excite.com/news/r/000315/18/campaign-bush-text
------------------------------
From: lionel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: linux: my display is too large
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 12:30:03 GMT
hi,
after my first installation, the display screen is so large that
scrolling is required. even after trying xconfigurator it hasn't worked .
some help will be appreciated.thanks
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
------------------------------
From: "F. Michael Orr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Minimal rh6.1 install on old machine
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:56:01 -0400
Richard Corfield wrote:
>
> Leonard Evens wrote:
> >
> > Richard Corfield wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm trying to install RH6.1 on an old p90 with a 400Mb hard drive.
>
> <snip>
>
> > > Many thanks
> > >
> > > Richard Corfield
> >
> > I think the installer requires a bit more space than what
> > your packages add up to. RedHat should do a better job
> > of warning you if you don't have enough space, but apparently
> > they haven't improved that much in their recent releases.
> > (I encountered a similar problem in upgrading from 5.2
> > to 6.0.)
> >
> <snip>
> > --
> >
> > Leonard Evens [EMAIL PROTECTED] 847-491-5537
> > Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208
>
> Thanks for the advice. I have selected even fewer packages (~240mb) and it's
> installed OK. I left /usr set to 290mb. It would be interesting to know what the
> relationship is between the reported size of the packages to install and the
> *actual* drive space required to install them! I can't believe that the
> difference has to be as much as 50mb!
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard
I assume you're installing as a server, since the disk is broken up into
different filesystems. You _could_ override that, and have one large
filesystem. I have a 33Mhz 486 with a 480MB HD running RH6.1 as a
firewall in that fashion, and I had no problems with the install (no X,
of course, and I build the kernel for it on a different machine, so I
don't need the kernel source code on it). But I still have over 100MB
free for firewall logs et al.
--
F. Michael Orr
Sr. Systems Engineer
Norfolk Public Schools, Norfolk, VA, USA
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: linux: my display is too large
Date: 12 May 2000 08:57:25 EDT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 12 May 2000 12:30:03 GMT, lionel
<<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the ether:
>hi,
> after my first installation, the display screen is so large that
>scrolling is required. even after trying xconfigurator it hasn't worked .
>some help will be appreciated.thanks
What is the exact make and model of your video card? Which version of
DeadRat are you using? And did you try hitting Ctrl-Alt-(Keypad +) and
Ctrl-Alt-(Keypad -) to switch among different resolutions?
Some video cards are not supported at all except in 640x480 VGA
mode. This mode is the default unless the correct X-server for your card
can be found. The very latest video cards often are not supported in
earlier Linux distros. If you have a version of RedHat < 6.2, then you
should probably try upgrading your Xfree86 install first. Look below for
guides:
http://www.xfree86.org/3.3.6/RELNOTES.html
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mhgraham/UpgradeXfree.html
--
Matt G / Dances With Crows \###| You have me mixed up with more
There is no Darkness in Eternity \##| creative ways of being stupid,
But only Light too dim for us to see \#| as I have to run nothing but a
(Unless, of course, you're working with NT)\| burp in the butt. --MegaHAL
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ken Yasuda)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: NTFS: Linux performance?
Date: 12 May 2000 13:05:47 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows) writes:
|> On Thu, 11 May 2000 12:03:48 -0700, Edward Lee
|> <<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the ether:
|> >Last time I tried, Linux NTFS driver is not stable enough for writing.
|>
|> Nope. Adding the right incantations to /etc/fstab will allow ordinary
|> users to access a FAT partition, or allow all users at once to access it.
|> Main problem is that every file on said FAT filesystem will be owned by
|> the user who originally mounted it, since FAT knows nothing about
|> security.
|>
Funny you should mention this -- I'm just now trying to wrestle with why root can
"cd" to a mounted NTFS zipdisk and nobody else can. Any suggestions as to the
particular incantation? (Got the black goat already.. ;)
Cheers,
Ken
(Remove "nospam" if replying by email)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: WANTED: Champion
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 13:06:06 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when sergio would say:
>Christopher Browne wrote:
>>
>> Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Sam E. Trenholme would
>> say:
>> >>This software is CURRENTLY not open source since the author makes a
>> >>living writing software
>> >
>> >I wish the utmost of success for this software, but I have serious
>> >reservations about this package thriving.
>>
>> I have more than merely "reservations" about the likelihood of it
>> thriving, and, if the licensing approach remains proprietary, thus
>> indicating that the producers are gaining from others' contributions,
>> but not freely contributing themselves, I have some reservations about
>> the notion of wishing them success.
>
>If the source is not open and contributors cannot add to it or change
>it,
>how are the producers gaining from others' contributions? In the same
>way
>that Visual Basic itself gains by someone writing a Visual Basic program
>maybe?
>
>> >Considering the number of free and public-domain toolkits out there, which
>> >this list just gives a sampling of, there is a lot of competition out
>> >there:
>> >
>> > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/7184/guitool.html
>> > http://www.free-soft.org/guitool/
>>
>> Indeed. The likelihood of a "not open source" GUI framework becoming
>> the "the native GUI of Linux" is _vanishingly_ small.
>>
>> (Actually, it's _impossible_ unless the framework is released under a
>> license compatible with the GPL, as, to become a truly "native" GUI
>> for Linux, it would have to be somehow integrated with the Linux
>> kernel, and such integration would _MANDATE_ using the GPL. Section
>> 2(b), for any "license lawyers" out there...)
>
>By integrated into the kernel are you suggesting that unless the
>software
>is tightly bound to the kernel that it cannot work? In which case I
>refer
>you to X11 (X Windows system) and the ext2 file system which both seem
>to
>work quite well on Linux without needing to be compiled directly into
>the
>kernel.
>
>Or are you suggesting that if a piece of third party software uses
>system
>calls that exist within the kernel, that that software MUST be GPL. If
>so I hope the likes of Borland, Coral and IBM are reading this.
No, the point is that in order for it to be so strongly associated with
Linux, it has to be tightly connected to the kernel.
And for _that_ to happen, it has to link to GPLed code, thus mandating
licensing under the GPL.
>> The downside to the claim that "not open source" is somehow associated
>> with "making a living writing software" is that those that are picking
>> tools are likely to prefer the one that is more available.
>
>Could you please clarify this sentence.
Why would I use something with expensive and restrictive licensing
requirements when there are many options that are less expensive and
less restrictive?
>> Thus diminishing interest in the "not open source" options, and
>> outright diminishing the ability of those that are trying to sell
>> those options to earn their living doing so.
>
>Yep, and this one.
>
>The only people I currently see making a living on open source software
>are those that package and sell it (such as Red Hat), those that provide
>support for it without actually writing it and those that use it as a
>platform for their existing commercial products such as Coral. How are
>the original developers or even the subsequent maintainers benefiting
>financially
>from any of this?
That may be the only people _YOU_ see making livings. The groups
that are selling services are largely invisible, as the business
relationships aren't advertised widely.
>> A more useful approach would be to try to get a group together to get
>> skilled with the package, and then try to "pitch" it to one of the
>> major Linux vendors (e.g. - RHAT, LNUX, SuSE, TurboLinux, ...) with a
>> view to seeing them sponsor further development of it in an "open
>> source" form.
>
>So to be a success I must first give it away, then see if I can get
>someone to pay me for it? Get real.
You have few useful options.
>> But if Sergio seriously wants to pull people into that process at
>> _this_ stage, I would suggest that he open up his pocketbook, and
>> offer some combination of Real $$$, perhaps with an option on
>> ownership of the enterprise that does that initial development.
>
>"_this_" stage? What initial development? The product is in the final
>stages of testing prior to full release and is really only waiting for
>the documentation to catch up and a conclusion as to whether or not
>Linux
>is a viable commercial platform.
>
>> The notion that people will find it a Wise Move to send in $10 per
>> head to "Sergio Enterprises" seems vanishingly unlikely.
>
>No one was suggesting that anyone just send me money. The idea was that
>they paid a small fee for something that they actually wanted to use.
>
>> _That_ kind of licensing cost makes it vastly too expensive to include
>> with any of the Linux "boxed sets," where it is highly probable that
>> the vendors make far less than $10 per box.
>
>They make less than $10 a box? Their overheads must be intergalactic
>considering how much they charge the end user and how little is in
>the box. How many hundreds of millions of dollars is Red Hat currently
>worth (despite the recent stock upset)? And all for less than $10 a box.
Yes, they very likely make less than $10 per box.
Are you familiar with the way retail sales works?
When that Red Hat "box" sells for $29.95, RHAT doesn't get $29.95 off
of it; the fact that there are at least three middlecritter organizations
involved means that they'd be LUCKY if they got $10.
>This posting seems to be far more about justifying open source than
>about
>whether my product is good or bad for Linux. I am asking for people to
>independently investigate my products capabilities and to publish their
>findings to the rest of the Linux community. If this product is as good
>as
>I say it is, it can only be a benefit.
>
>Just as a mater of interest how much money has Linus received for his
>continuing open source contribution over the last several years? Does
>not compare well with Red Hat does it?
>
>Sergio Masci
>http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XEBOT
>
--
Rules of the Evil Overlord #11. "I will be secure in my
superiority. Therefore, I will feel no need to prove it by leaving
clues in the form of riddles or leaving my weaker enemies alive to
show they pose no threat." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
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