Linux-Misc Digest #516, Volume #24 Thu, 18 May 00 15:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Announce: Motif release to Open Source Community leads to Open (Chuck Dillon)
Re: WYSIWYG web page generator (Mark Wilden)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (JEDIDIAH)
Re: WYSIWYG web page generator (Mark Wilden)
Linux PPP connections ("Mark L. Wise")
HP-UX vs. Linux (Ben =?iso-8859-1?Q?Chauss=E9?=)
IPFilter vs IPChains (Praedor Tempus)
Re: HP-UX vs. Linux (Neil)
Re: German Govt says Microsoft a security risk (Mike Lee)
Re: Corel Linux and WINE (Uwe Bonnes)
Re: Any way to fake/spoof MAC address? (Grant Edwards)
ssh2 and exchanging keys (Kerry Cox)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Doug Alcorn)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Prasanth Kumar)
Re: Linux Distribution ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Chuck Dillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Announce: Motif release to Open Source Community leads to Open
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:42:30 -0500
"J.H.M. Dassen (Ray)" wrote:
>
> OTOH, the significance of the new licensing terms for Motif is quite low for
> free software projects. A truely free alternative (LessTif) has been
> emerging over recent years, and the importance of the Motif toolkit has
> declined with the arrival of free GUI toolkits like GTK and Qt2.
>From the FAQ at http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/:
QUESTION:
What is the motivation for making Motif publicly available?
ANSWER:
The motivation is recognition of the importance of Open Source
operating systems in the industry. The public availability of
Motif will allow the many Motif applications to more easily be
made available on Open Source platforms , thus increasing the
variety o applications available, delivering greater choice for
buyers and a larger market for vendors.
They are not trying to compete with Qt, GTK, GNOME... They are trying
to pave the way for UNIX ISVs to bring their products to 'Open Source
platforms'. Most likely to prevent those ISVs from abandoning Motif
for another GUI solution.
But Motif was already there at little cost, about $120 bucks, from a
solid vendor (MetroLink). If someone is going to shell out cash for
significant UNIX products that $120 isn't going to be a problem.
Reducing or eliminating that $120 isn't going to contribute much to the
above stated goal. The ISVs could eliminate that cost by statically
linking to libXm. But statically linking doesn't scale well as the
number of 3rd party dependencies increases. Statically linking is a
bad thing.
So if the cost of MetroLink's Motif isn't the barrier what is it and
how does 'Open Motif' address it?
It seems to me that the barrier is the dependency on too many system
vendors, IOW, too many independent variables. It seems to me that what
this is intended to do is to make it possible for LINUX distributors to
bundle and support standard Motif so that ISVs can take that
independent variable off their list.
I work for an ISV who has provided a product on various flavors of UNIX
for many years. I can tell you that a very big part of considering
whether or not to support LINUX is the potentially huge support costs
associated with the number of independent variables in the field.
LINUX distributors * LINUX versions * Architectures * Motif vendors *
Motif versions ... And this on a 'free' platform where folks expect a
lower price. Higher support costs and lower prices don't mix. My
guess is that if we could identify a LINUX vendor that has a
significant install base and bundles Motif so that the two have coupled
release cycles we would jump on that bandwagon in a heartbeat.
I'm guessing we are not the only ISV in the world with that opinion.
This is what the LSB is all about. The logical next step is for the
LINUX vendors and the LSB to embrace 'Open Motif'. That doesn't mean
they make Motif exclusively the LSB GUI of choice. It just means they
make sure that an LSB compliant system will provide the Motif runtimes.
The big question is whether the 'Open Motif' license will be a
problem. I'm guessing that the Open Group wouldn't have made this move
unless they had some assurance that it would not be a problem.
Speaking only for myself.
ced
--
Chuck Dillon
Senior Software Engineer
Genetics Computer Group, a subsidiary of Oxford Molecular
------------------------------
From: Mark Wilden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.powerpc,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: WYSIWYG web page generator
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:41:05 +0100
I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
>
> + However, if you're determined to drag in content,
>
> Yes, I am.
That's fine--it's certainly a valid subject. But the post you were
replying to wasn't talking about content.
> Admit it: without content, the Web is naught but a
> continuous advertisment. I can get that on TV, and that can
> be *far* more entertaining.
Advertising doesn't contain content? Or by 'content' do you mean a
certain type, that you find useful?
> Good presentation can do wonders for adequate content. But like getting
> blood from a stone, great presentation can only do so much to lousy
> content.
You won't get any argument from me about that.
> Now, into my killfile where you belong...
LOL! The guy (apparently) wastes his time writing messages to me, then
performs the equivalent of sticking his fingers in his ears and says
"Neener, neener! I can't hear you!!". :)
I've never killfiled a newsgroup participant in my life. I think it's
far more efficient to simply ignore the person, which rather precludes
responding to his posts. But some people have more time on their hands
than I...
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 17:44:32 GMT
On Thu, 18 May 2000 16:26:02 GMT, Doug Alcorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Lathi gets out a clue stick.
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH) writes:
>
>> On Thu, 18 May 2000 04:49:10 GMT, Mongoose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >On Thu, 18 May 2000 01:00:45 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >
>> >>> So what is the problem with doing this in the KDE desktop?
>> >>
>> >>KDE isn't free.
>> >
>> > uh what? I don't remember paying for KDE...
>>
>> It's base library is "owned" by a corporation.
>>
>> A good suggestion might be to replace libqt entirely with a
>> completely liberated clone. However, it's dubious whether or
>> not the KDE developers would actually take advantage of such
>> a thing.
>
>First, the Qt library _is_ now free. Trolltech decided to license it
It's 'kinda' free. It's still owned by Trolltech.
Should Trolltech get scooped up by alien, it will be free.
[deletia]
The ultimate proof is in the ports: So where are those Be and Mac
versions?
Contributors are, afterall, the whole point of a Free licence.
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: Mark Wilden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.powerpc,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: WYSIWYG web page generator
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:48:02 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Mark Wilden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I was responding to greg's assertion that the Web is text, because
> > HTML and (and HTTP) have 'text' in them.
>
> Gee, I post one article in the thread and suddenly I'm the instigator?
> Please see the restored attributions.
I thought that was a legitimate expression of your views. If it wasn't,
I really do apologise.
> And try not to delete them next time.
Sorry, but I only quote for context, not for research purposes. That's
what DejaNews is for. Again, I didn't mean to distort your views.
> Another point? It's just the same straw man argument. No one said HTML
> was for text alone, only that it is clearly not for graphics alone.
Why would anyone bother saying that the Web is not for graphics alone
when no one in the known universe has ever said that it was? Talk about
straw men.
------------------------------
From: "Mark L. Wise" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux PPP connections
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:46:30 -0400
Hello all!
I am having problems connecting a SCO Unix 5.0.4 machine with Red Hat Linux
V6.2 PPP.
(It appears to be having problems with a NAK on magic-number
authentication).
Anyone out there with advice? Pointers? Help?
TIA,
Mark
--
Mark L. Wise
Alpha II Service, Inc.
614 868 5033
614 868-1060 Fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; www.alpha2.com
------------------------------
From: Ben =?iso-8859-1?Q?Chauss=E9?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: HP-UX vs. Linux
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 17:50:06 GMT
Hi,
Do you know what is best between HP-UX and Linux. We want to create a
web server, and we would like to know what is best does two one ????
Thanks !
BEn ...
------------------------------
From: Praedor Tempus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: IPFilter vs IPChains
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:05:27 -0600
In reading comments on slashdot concerning freebsd/openbsd,
I find references to IPFilter being far superior to the
linux IPchains.
OK, if that is true, what is it that prevents someone
from simply porting IPFilter to linux? Is there so much
of a difference between linux and the *bsds that allows
the *bsds to run linux apps but not the other way around
(to a greater extent)?
praedor
------------------------------
From: Neil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: HP-UX vs. Linux
Date: 18 May 2000 11:20:21 PST
Ben Chauss? <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do you know what is best between HP-UX and Linux. We want to create a
> web server, and we would like to know what is best does two one ????
Do it with Linux. :-)
--
Neil
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Lee)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: German Govt says Microsoft a security risk
Date: 18 May 2000 17:34:02 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy, softrat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
| > Gunter writes:
| > > The Mafia is outlawed in the US of A.
| >
| > No organization is outlawed in the USA.
|
| Nonsense. Any organization which advocates the violent overthrow of the
| government is illegal, i.e., outlawed.
That's mostly incorrect.
Merely *advocating* violence against the government is not
illegal. It falls under the protection on political free
speech, which is the most well protected kind of speech in
the U.S.
But an organization that has specific plans for violence
and which has accumulated manpower and weaponry for
carrying out those plans would certainly be in big trouble.
Also, it doesn't really matter whether the planned violence
was against the government or not.
mikey
------------------------------
From: Uwe Bonnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corel Linux and WINE
Date: 18 May 2000 18:25:21 GMT
Giles Hamlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: I am in the process of learning Corel Linux Deluxe 1.0 and wanted to try to
: run a couple of Windows Apps in it.
: However, to a newbie, the WINE site is confusing to say the least. Can
: anyone give me any tips - what parts to download, how to install it, how to
: run it etc?
Did you find the Wine FAQ http://www.winehq.com/faq.html?
Any tips written here only can reproduce that thing.
If you problems with specific subjects when following the faq, please the the Wine-Cre
on comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine know.
Bye
--
Uwe Bonnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
========= Tel. 06151 162516 ======== Fax. 06151 164321 ==========
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Any way to fake/spoof MAC address?
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:46:33 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Praedor Tempus wrote:
>I work parttime at a postition in which MAC addresses are
>watched/administered closely. They only permit authorized
>computers to hook into the network, which means they don't, as
>a rule, permit people to bring in their own personal laptops to
>use. If a "strange" MAC address appears on their network, they
>get bent out of shape.
Sounds a bit paranoid, but I guess it's their network. If
you're employees are not honest, you're screwed no matter what
MAC addresses they're using...
>I intend to use my laptop. My desktop is a piece of crap
>(slow, runs windoze and crashes OFTEN). I originally
>considered having Win98 removed and NT installed, installing a
>second NIC and using the NT box with the authorized MAC address
>as server/router for my laptop connected to it, but was told
>that this would not mask my MAC address (by the local network
>guys).
BS. If you add a second NIC to your desktop and connect it to
your laptop you can do routing with IP spoofing on the desktop
and the LAN will have no way of seeing your laptop's MAC. This
is easy enough to do with a Linux machine, and I presume it can
be done with NT also.
>Then I decided that if I could mimic/copy/duplicate its MAC
>address on my laptop, then I could unplug the piece of crap and
>use my laptop and use linux.
If the rule is "no outside computers allowed on the LAN", then
you're still breaking the rule, and could get fired.
>Since I CAN alter my MAC address, I can now use the same MAC
>address as my crappy doze box, disconnect it and use a real
>computer and OS. It is also going to work as an educational
>tool, of sorts, for some of our network guys (MCSE-"certified")
>who had/have no idea that you can alter MAC addresses.
Some you can, some you can't. Depends on the controller
chipset. The boards where you can set the MAC usually have a
MAC in ROM and depend on the driver to read the MAC from ROM
and load it into the controller during initialization. If that
is the case, then the driver can write whatever it wants into
the controller. In other boards you might actually have to
write to the ROM (Flash) to change the MAC address.
>They are the ones that originally told me that I couldn't
>connect my laptop because it would display a new/different/
>unauthorized MAC address and immediately be targeted for
>termination (my turn of phrase). I can now show them that,
>indeed, I CAN change my MAC address and remain essentially
>invisable to that layer of checking on the network.
Perhaps, but somebody will notice that you're using your laptop
and then you're in for it. If they don't mind that you're using
your laptop, then just ask them to add its MAC to the approved
list.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I just bought
at FLATBUSH from MICKEY
visi.com MANTLE!
------------------------------
From: Kerry Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: ssh2 and exchanging keys
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:50:17 -0600
I'm trying to get a secure connection between some of my Linux boxes
here at work and had some questions about the exchanging of keys. I
would like to use ssh to allow for remote backups rather than using
rsh. I have ssh2 installed on several machines and have disabled
telnet, but would like to now know more about how ssh exchanges keys and
how to make remote backups more functional.
If anyone has any experince with ssh2 that they would liek to share so
that I can make my connections more secure, I would be most
appreciative. I'm using ssh-2.1.0 on several Red Hat Linux 6.1 servers.
Thanks.
Kj
--
_.,+=~`^"-.,_.,+=~`^"-*.,_.,+=~'`^"-.,_.,+=~`^"-.,_.,+=~`^"-.,_.,+=~`^"-.,
Kerry J. Cox .,. System Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED] .,. KSL Radio/TV
(801) 575-7771 .,. http://www.ksl.com/
ICQ# 37681165 .,. http://quasi.ksl.com/linux/
_.,+=~`^"-.,_.,+=~`^"-.,_.,+=~`^"-.,_.,+*=~`^"-.,_.,+=%~`^"-.,_.,+=~`^"-.,
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
From: Doug Alcorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:54:05 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH) writes:
> >
> >First, the Qt library _is_ now free. Trolltech decided to license it
>
> It's 'kinda' free. It's still owned by Trolltech.
OK, I stand corrected. I really don't think their license is as free
as other licenses (although the Open Source Group. With that said,
the ownership of the code as little to do with its freedom. The
freedom is all in the license. Ghostscript is a good example of free
software that is exclusively owned by Aladin Software.
> The ultimate proof is in the ports: So where are those Be and Mac
> versions?
>
> Contributors are, afterall, the whole point of a Free licence.
Yea, here's where I think Qt license falls apart. Basically,
TrollTech has made Qt free _only_ for Unix/X11. All other platforms
must purchase the "Professional Edition". I didn't see the source
code for Qt; however, they did talk about accepting patches. That
means the source must be available somewhere. So, this does classify
as allowing derived works; they just can only be distributed through
TrollTech. Not exactly my idea of how free shoftware is supposed to
work.
So, what _was_ the name of that project to make a free version of Qt?
I thought it was sponsored by FSF. I searched their page and didn't
find anything.
--
(__) Doug Alcorn (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.lathi.net)
oo / Win a 66MB capacity tape drive. Help me win too!
|_/ http://www.ecrix.com/extreme/getReferrals.cfm?ref=7612
------------------------------
From: Prasanth Kumar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:57:41 GMT
Doug Alcorn wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH) writes:
> > >
> > >First, the Qt library _is_ now free. Trolltech decided to license it
> >
> > It's 'kinda' free. It's still owned by Trolltech.
>
> OK, I stand corrected. I really don't think their license is as free
> as other licenses (although the Open Source Group. With that said,
> the ownership of the code as little to do with its freedom. The
> freedom is all in the license. Ghostscript is a good example of free
> software that is exclusively owned by Aladin Software.
Can you elaborate in what way the QPL is less free than the GPL?
--
Prasanth Kumar
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux Distribution
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 19:03:56 GMT
Andrew Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> did eloquently scribble:
> I find SuSE easier to configure than Red Hat, the downside to that is
> that SuSE has one central configuration utility (Yast) so you do not
> really get to learn how things are really configured.
But you CAN learn about individual configuration, and when you're confident
with one, it can be turned off in YaST so you can do it manually from then
on.
The same thing could be said for Linuxconf, I imagine.
--
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack|
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] |in the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you|
| |can't move, with no hope of rescue. |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc |Consider how lucky you are that life has been |
| in |good to you so far... |
| Computer Science | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy.|
=============================================================================
|GCv3.12 GCS>$ d-(dpu) s+/- a C++ US++ P L/L+ E-- W+ N++ o+ K PS+ w-- M+/++ |
|PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ X+/X++ R+ tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e++ h/h+ !r!| Space for hire |
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
